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Summon mechanic - why not play as normal?

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Archan6el

User
#1
The new "Summon" mechanic seems a bit boring and unrewarding. In battle, a unit is not summoned to be dropped on the field as cannon fodder without doing anything. It would be much more interesting and also makes sense if a summoned unit is played as normal and deploys. Cards like Vilgefortz, Tibor Eggebracht and Golyat (deathwish) would also become more interesting, I dare say more balanced (although Vilgefortz ranged may have to be limited to summoning bronze only then).

Regarding the above "played as normal", I mean played on a row where normally played as by the player who owns the card. So spying units are played on the opponents side, or on your side if you summon an opponent's spying unit. Which brings me to something I experienced yesterday. I got really unlucky with this mechanic and felt that this should not be possible.

- I killed my opponent's Golyat
- Golyat's deathwish summoned my Sabrina Glevissig to a row on my side that already had 4 units
- Opponent plays Sihil (of all cards!) and kills Sabrina, triggering her deathwish for a nice 13 total damage

So in short, proposal for Summon to summon units to a row where they could normally be played by the player who owns the card and to let summoned units deploy. Looking forward to others' thoughts on this.

Edit to add "I".
 
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devivre

Moderator
#2
Well, the point is to either give ways to counter a card or add a downside to a strong card like in the case of Golyat (which you can consume in hand, and later consume again from the graveyard, which can enable some powerful plays).

In most cases, I don‘t feel like that‘s an issue. The main problem I see is that control in general is a bit too strong right now.
 

Archan6el

User
#3
Well, the point is to either give ways to counter a card or add a downside to a strong card like in the case of Golyat (which you can consume in hand, and later consume again from the graveyard, which can enable some powerful plays).

In most cases, I don‘t feel like that‘s an issue. The main problem I see is that control in general is a bit too strong right now.
Agreed. In this case, I feel the counter is too weak as summoned units do not deploy, especially as units with deploy are usually low strength. And having your spying units summoned on your side is just wrong in my opinion.
 
#4
- Killed my opponent's Golyat
- Golyat's deathwish summoned my Sabrina Glevissig to a row on my side that already had 4 units
- Opponent plays Sihil (of all cards!) and kills Sabrina, triggering her deathwish for a nice 13 total damage
Absolutely beautiful play, I wished to see this be utilized more often, Golyat deathwish if often underestimated.
 

Archan6el

User
#5
Absolutely beautiful play, I wished to see this be utilized more often, Golyat deathwish if often underestimated.
I killed my opponents Golyat. Not sure if you got that. Updated my post. You should be rewarded for this, but I got duped :p

But, with the current mechanic, this could indeed be a very sneaky tactic, killing (consuming recommended) your own Golyat if you suspect your opponent having Sabrina Glevissig (who needs to still be in opponent's deck). Very situational, risky and unlikely to happen though.
 
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murph33-

User
#6
uhhh, golyat summons the lowest thing out of your deck. you should know you have a sabrina in your deck and not have killed the golyat that's entirely on you for that happening.. congrats_you_played_yourself.jpg

Anyways the ability to summon things out of your opponent's deck is an interesting mechanic and if they just came out as played everything would have to be rebalanced. the fact tibor can brick a zoltan is important. of course tibor can also bring out old speartip so it's something you have to take into account. In this meta where deploy seems to be king and things with order are ignored making summoning activate the deploy would exacerbate that even more.
 

Archan6el

User
#7
uhhh, golyat summons the lowest thing out of your deck. you should know you have a sabrina in your deck and not have killed the golyat that's entirely on you for that happening.. congrats_you_played_yourself.jpg

Anyways the ability to summon things out of your opponent's deck is an interesting mechanic and if they just came out as played everything would have to be rebalanced. the fact tibor can brick a zoltan is important. of course tibor can also bring out old speartip so it's something you have to take into account. In this meta where deploy seems to be king and things with order are ignored making summoning activate the deploy would exacerbate that even more.
I am 100% sure that the intention of summoning an opponent's card is supposed to be a counterbalance for playing a 13 point Tibor, or in the case of Golyat, a counterbalance for consuming or reward for killing such a high point card. You write that you want to play a 13 point Tibor and on top of that also brick an opponent's card. The example of Tibor bricking an opponent's Zoltan is a horrible and completely OP mechanic. This needs rebalancing, Summon must allow a card to be played or put in hand (as it used to).

Sabrina is a spy, so she should be summoned to the opponent's row.
 

rrc

User
#8
Usually deploy needs user interactions, right? So, during your opponent's turn, logically you can't play/deploy a unit because it is the opponent's turn. So, in such cases, only Summon can work.
 

Archan6el

User
#9
Usually deploy needs user interactions, right? So, during your opponent's turn, logically you can't play/deploy a unit because it is the opponent's turn. So, in such cases, only Summon can work.
True, I understand that's a tricky technical point. So then take the pre-HC approach with Summon drawing a card and put it in hand, to be played later. That makes perfect sense.
 

rrc

User
#10
True, I understand that's a tricky technical point. So then take the pre-HC approach with Summon drawing a card and put it in hand, to be played later. That makes perfect sense.
Then people will play the Summon card as first card (and due to hand limit) it will go directly to GY. (Now, don't start discussing about whether Hand Limit should be removed and make this thread another sibling thread of Gwent is Uninstalled sadly.. ;))
 

Archan6el

User
#11
Then people will play the Summon card as first card (and due to hand limit) it will go directly to GY. (Now, don't start discussing about whether Hand Limit should be removed and make this thread another sibling thread of Gwent is Uninstalled sadly.. ;))
To quote Regis: "Your powers of deduction seem to have waned not one bit". ;)
 
#12
It's just a broken mechanic that cards such as Tibor and Vilgefortz (There are some others) pull the other players card as a downside but don't give the deploy effect. The cards that do this are already very powerful and then on top of that they waste a card you might have needed.

I'm waiting for the day that the balancing in this game feels good. We went through the whole beta discussing this stuff but these cards keep getting made.
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uhhh, golyat summons the lowest thing out of your deck. you should know you have a sabrina in your deck and not have killed the golyat that's entirely on you for that happening.. congrats_you_played_yourself.jpg

Anyways the ability to summon things out of your opponent's deck is an interesting mechanic and if they just came out as played everything would have to be rebalanced. the fact tibor can brick a zoltan is important. of course tibor can also bring out old speartip so it's something you have to take into account. In this meta where deploy seems to be king and things with order are ignored making summoning activate the deploy would exacerbate that even more.
Tibor is already a high strength unit. Having it brick cards as well is far too strong.
 
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Archan6el

User
#13
Summon is broken. It should always include Play, otherwise it can sabotage your strongest cards on top of getting point slammed already. As rrc indicated above, technically you cannot play a summoned card during your opponent's turn. Pre-HC, the card therefore went into your hand. But now there is the hand limit that can mess with that. Perhaps create a hand limit exception for summoned cards? Or get rid of hand limit, because it doesn't make the game better imo. Sorry rrc, I had to say it, root cause analysis. ;)