The Almighty Day 1 Patch. Lets see the difference.

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Do you agree?`

  • I agree

    Votes: 12 46.2%
  • I disagree

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • I'm in tears...can't read now.

    Votes: 8 30.8%

  • Total voters
    26
You confuse national Ratings Boards and Game Awards panels with the general public.
NOT THE SAME.
Those people got access because it's their job to evaluate the games content not because they want to play the game (they may, but that's irrelevant).
And such people know they're getting what's essentially a late beta version of the game so they expect certain bugs and other issues, which are totally immaterial to what they're doing ... evaluating content not gameplay.
 
It's a huge game that's going to push the boundaries of existing tech in totally new ways. Of course there will be things that don't work perfectly.

TW3 had tons of issues when it first released. Had to restart 3 times before I got through the whole game. Patching went on for years. Skyrim still has release day bugs in it to this day, and most of those have been handled by community patches and mods.

Played both of them through multiple, multiple times. Expecting perfection is a guarantee for disappointment. Expecting a certain "level" of universal stability and/or polish is completely subjective, with way too many variables, to ever be "universal" in actuality.

Hence, I'm expecting: "A freaking amazing game with some issues that are in no way the defining factors of the experience. Despite all of the bugs I had to deal with in Skyrim and The Witcher 3...my experience was not decided by the bugs."
 
TW3 had tons of issues when it first released. Had to restart 3 times before I got through the whole game. Patching went on for years. Skyrim still has release day bugs in it to this day, and most of those have been handled by community patches and mods.

Played both of them through multiple, multiple times. Expecting perfection is a guarantee for disappointment...

Hence, I'm expecting: "A freaking amazing game with some issues that are in no way the defining factors of the experience. Despite all of the bugs I had to deal with in Skyrim and The Witcher 3...my experience was not decided by the bugs."

Exactly. Which is why another delay was ridiculous. We expect bugs, we expect problems. They're promising perfection. We see that as stupid you should never promise perfection it does not exist. Even if you make a game a close to perfect as you can make it gamers will find things that will break your game. They will find bugs that you missed. We want a good game we have not had a good game in I don't know how long perhaps since the Witcher 3. So fix those bugs after release, but that's past now we have december 10th. Another delay would be extraordinarily upsetting. Again we don't care if it releases with bugs on that day. If the game crashes on occasion, we can still enjoy it. Just release it and take a much deserved vacation, come back and fix the bugs people found while you were gone. Alright?
 
Exactly. Which is why another delay was ridiculous. We expect bugs, we expect problems. They're promising perfection. We see that as stupid you should never promise perfection it does not exist. Even if you make a game a close to perfect as you can make it gamers will find things that will break your game. They will find bugs that you missed. We want a good game we have not had a good game in I don't know how long perhaps since the Witcher 3. So fix those bugs after release, but that's past now we have december 10th. Another delay would be extraordinarily upsetting. Again we don't care if it releases with bugs on that day. If the game crashes on occasion, we can still enjoy it. Just release it and take a much deserved vacation, come back and fix the bugs people found while you were gone. Alright?

There's more to it than bugs, I'm a thousand percent sure. My guess would be that there also needs to be an infrastructure in place to handle the next part of development, post release. Certain parts of the engine have to be in place for the work that will inevitably have to be done not only for bugs, but for future content, expansion DLC, etc. And, it's also common that unfinished content that would have to be rushed and completed in a slap-dash fashion, which would not only negatively impact the experience, but also create even more work for devs in the future. (Often times, building a "placeholder" then trying to "patch it up" later isn't possible, resulting in the need to completely undo the work then spend time re-doing it all the way from the beginning again, further delaying even more things in the future.)

Hence, the most constructive solution is often to simply give folks some bad news and be sure the job is done properly the first time. For myself, I would always make that decision. No real debate or consideration. If we expect to spend 3 years to accomplish something, then we discover it's actually going to take 5...we finish what we've started. And we get it done right.
 
There's more to it than bugs, I'm a thousand percent sure. My guess would be that there also needs to be an infrastructure in place to handle the next part of development, post release. Certain parts of the engine have to be in place for the work that will inevitably have to be done not only for bugs, but for future content, expansion DLC, etc. And, it's also common that unfinished content that would have to be rushed and completed in a slap-dash fashion, which would not only negatively impact the experience, but also create even more work for devs in the future. (Often times, building a "placeholder" then trying to "patch it up" later isn't possible, resulting in the need to completely undo the work then spend time re-doing it all the way from the beginning again, further delaying even more things in the future.)

Hence, the most constructive solution is often to simply give folks some bad news and be sure the job is done properly the first time. For myself, I would always make that decision. No real debate or consideration. If we expect to spend 3 years to accomplish something, then we discover it's actually going to take 5...we finish what we've started. And we get it done right.

What you're talking about isn't "gone gold" Gone Gold means there are no more place holders the content that is meant to be in the game is all in the game. CDPR said as much.
 
What you're talking about isn't "gone gold" Gone Gold means there are no more place holders the content that is meant to be in the game is all in the game. CDPR said as much.

"Gone Gold" is totally arbitrary. The only thing that makes a game "go gold" is the studio saying so.

"Content complete" basically means that the game can be completed from beginning to end. Even if optional content like side-quests, crafting systems, etc. is not 100% working, the game can still be considered "playable" from beginning to end. It is passingly common for placeholder things to be left in a game permanently and never fixed up. It is passingly common for mechanics that are almost finished to be completely disabled or regressed to a terribly clunky and unfinished state.

This is not something that's dictated by some "National Committee for the Standards of Video Game Control"...it's entirely up to the developers to decide when the core of what they set out to accomplish is done. Or a producer may decide, "Good enough -- time's up!" without even so much as consulting the dev team. I mean...why do you think we have so many games on the market that have pulled a No Man's Sky? How many titles have you seen that have been released with bugs that crash the game on startup? How many times have you encountered a game that would result in corrupted saves if you attempted to use one of its features?

And yet -- they officially "went gold" 4-5 patches before that.

The devs know what they're trying to accomplish. They know if the game needs more work or not. They know what sort of quality they're trying to achieve. I give them credit for sticking it out. And I'm in no rush. It will be ready when it's ready. Until such time, everyone should be grateful that everything is going so well with life that "waiting for a video game" is such a major source of stress.
 
Sorry to go off-topic but the fact you mentioned shipped copies got me thinking about reviews and review embargo dates. I assume they've all been moved too. I'm not even sure what the original dates for those things were.
Review embargo is in the same weekend of the launch and reviewers will get to play the game "weeks" before release
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It will be ready when it's ready
The fact that they keep putting false release date contradicts this quote and puts the developers through unnecessary pressure.
 
Exactly. Which is why another delay was ridiculous. We expect bugs, we expect problems.
Just because the Tripple A industry has conditioned you to expect new releases to be buggy doesn't mean it's good business to release incomplete products.

"I've brought back the new car I bought yesterday because it's missing one wheel, the brakes don't work, and it wasn't painted."
 
Review embargo is in the same weekend of the launch and reviewers will get to play the game "weeks" before release

Thanks!

The mention of playing it for 'weeks' has also got me thinking. How many weeks I wonder? I mean, we got to around 25 days before release before this new delay announcement.

Were they about to send out review copies? Maybe that was when they decided those basic Xbox and PS4 versions (not 1-X and Pro) weren't ready?

If we work on the assumption that 'weeks' is at least 3 weeks then I wonder if that means reviews copies would be sent out on November 19th. Sometimes reviewers tell you when they've started playing their copies. So, it could be that if we haven't heard from reviewers by the 19th then it's not gonna make the Dec 10th date either.

Basically, at this point, the only way I'm gonna feel confident about a release date is when I hear the reviews copies are being played.

Bah, there's all sorts of permutations.
 
The fact that they keep putting false release date contradicts this quote and puts the developers through unnecessary pressure.

Once again, I wish people would not speak vestigially about things in order to try to prove points for people they've never even met. Firstly, how does "allowing workers extra time to get the job done" somehow equate to "putting undo pressure on them"??? That's the complete opposite of putting pressure on someone.

Putting pressure on a dev team would be: "Everyone is required to work 14 hour shifts for the next 8 weeks. No vacation time. No overtime. Budget is locked until release. We're hitting this launch date, come hell or high water. If you don't show up, start looking for another job."

Putting pressure on a dev team is not: "Are we going to reasonably be able to make this launch date? No? Alright...let's make the announcement then. We'll delay for 21 days, but let's use that time well, people."

And, believe it or not, artists and professionals are normally quite passionate about the work they do and want to do it well. They want to spend extra time with something they've already put so much time into and get it to the point they know they can achieve. I've still to hear a single complaint from anyone working on Cyberpunk 2077 about being pressured to do anything.
 
Putting pressure on a dev team would be: "Everyone is required to work 14 hour shifts for the next 8 weeks. No vacation time. No overtime. Budget is locked until release. We're hitting this launch date, come hell or high water. If you don't show up, start looking for another job."

Putting pressure on a dev team is not: "Are we going to reasonably be able to make this launch date? No? Alright...let's make the announcement then. We'll delay for 21 days, but let's use that time well, people."
hate to break it to you but.... there are many reports of this actually happening ,you also make it sound like there are no consequences for the delay Cdpr literally became a laughing stock after this delay ,hell i even dont remember when was the last time a game got delayed after going gold because of development and their stock got hit pretty hard ,compare that to what valve did ,they came out of nowhere announced a new half life game 6 months before release and boom ,no delays no BS ,games released gamers and devs are happy and i have personally not seen any reports of crunch if anything its quite the opposite there are reports of them avoiding it and i hope thats really the case.
also there are many games now that currently dont have release dates like BG 3 ,Vtmb 2 ,Dying light 2 and even hades during early access did not have one until very later on ,which is generally a good call.
And, believe it or not, artists and professionals are normally quite passionate about the work they do and want to do it well. They want to spend extra time with something they've already put so much time into and get it to the point they know they can achieve. I've still to hear a single complaint from anyone working on Cyberpunk 2077 about being pressured to do anything.
i really dont get why people use this excuse when it comes to Cdpr but this very same excuse for some reason is not eligible when other companies like Rockstar , EA and Activison are mentioned people start to mention that these devs have other responsibilities like family and all ,as if Cdpr devs for some reason dont have any.
 
A certain ampunt of last minute crunch is par for the course in the programming field (I outta know, I did it for bout 20 years) the amount varies with the overall length of the project. If the project takes 6 months expect a few days of crunch, if it takes 8 years (as CP2077 did) expect a few weeks. NO ONE that is professional programmer expects it to be a strictly 9-to-5 job.

That said, some companies are slave drivers and expect 6-months or even years of crunch (while the senior execs work 9-to-5 and collect huge bonuses). That is unacceptable!

(Look at the 2nd line of my signature to see my feelings on the subject. )
 
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There is a big difference between an author interviewing present employees of a company, quoting their actual, personal thoughts and feelings in full, based on their first-hand experience working in that environment...

...and an author speculating on a single interpretation of a single detail, based solely on second-hand information and understanding, then trying to create drama by crafting rhetoric without a single valid example to back up his claims, simultaneously ignoring directly contradictory fact, most of which came right from the mouths of the actual developers during the exact same interview that he cherry-picked his quotations from, which wholly invalidate his claims. No one at CDPR was forced to do anything they were not 100% willing to do and compensated in full for -- overtime included. The article in question is not an argument; it is completely irresponsible journalism. It disingenuously suppresses factual information in an attempt to intentionally and negligently misrepresent the announcement according to the author's personal agenda.

Frankly, that type of behavior can get you fired as a journalist. Any publisher worth their weight knows the difference between a.) quality, bias-free reporting and b.) grandstanding and mongering. (Unfortunately, not all publishers are worth their weight, especially where the lax-to-nonexistant standards of the internet are concerned.) The only factual thing he says is that CDPR is working overtime for a while to get Cyberpunk ready. Everything else is utterly slanted and biased drivel, substantiated by nothing but a subjective, second-hand interpretation of a single statement.

Readers need to watch the entire interview that is referenced in the article, not just the parts that were intentionally cut down to deliver half-truths. You can read the feedback from CDPR employees throughout this forum. You can listen to other interviews about the process and how dedicated and driven the entire team is, and how much they do not want to rush the development or deliver anything less than the best product they can produce.

You're simply mistaking what you want to hear and believe with the actual facts of what has been said by the people directly involved, and are superimposing those subjective, second-hand whims over what can be validly proven and supported.

1.) The plan to deliver the game and avoid overtime didn't work.
2.) CDPR, as a team, opted to delay things to spend more time on them.
3.) To the best of my knowledge, everyone is onboard and pulling -- I've not heard a single complaint from anyone. (Do you know how much complaining happens when workers are being mistreated or people feel like they're being taken advantage of???)
4.) The team is now delaying again because it's not ready yet, and they have a company that's supportive enough not only to grant them that extra time -- but to recognize and compensate them for that effort.

Hence, what work is being done now is being done because this is what it looks like when people passionately dedicated to their Art and profession are focused on achieving something above-and-beyond. (Something, it is painfully obvious, many people have never experienced and seemingly don't believe actually happens. Forgive me for choosing a side directly here, but I want no part in any endeavor being run by such people. Hard work gets things done. Not whining every time I have to come in on a weekend or spend a lunch hour catching up on something important.)

A journalist half a world away with absolutely no direct contact with the company aside from a single comment, ignoring the words of the devs themselves to serve his own purposes, and then publicly criticizing something he's not even directly involved in "because he thinks so in his mind" does not outweigh the words from the employees of the company itself. Find me a present or past employee that worked on CP2077 that has something negative to say about "crunch", and I'll be willing to listen to them. Aside from that: Believing something doesn't simply make it true.

Plans change. Happens all the time. Extra effort is needed here and there. Happens all the time. That's life. Anyone that has a problem with that has a permanently uphill trek to make through snow and ice. Better dress warmly and pack a lunch. Life will be really tough until they get a bit more used to the climate.
 
I've still to hear a single complaint from anyone working on Cyberpunk 2077 about being pressured to do anything.

Find me a present or past employee that worked on CP2077 that has something negative to say about "crunch", and I'll be willing to listen to them. Aside from that: Believing something doesn't simply make it true.


Crunch.png
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Gigantic, white images... eyes burning.

Schreier, his investigations, or what anonymous (ex-)employees say doesn't have much to do with what has been shipped out to reviewers, or what a potential day 1 patch may be like, though. I think it would be a good idea to return to the actual topic of the thread. What will come will come, and what is going on is going on; nothing discussed here will have an effect on either.
 
Gigantic, white images... eyes burning.

Schreier, his investigations, or what anonymous (ex-)employees say doesn't have much to do with what has been shipped out to reviewers, or what a potential day 1 patch may be like, though. I think it would be a good idea to return to the actual topic of the thread. What will come will come, and what is going on is going on; nothing discussed here will have an effect on either.

Fixed it <3 Carry on.
 
Exactly. Which is why another delay was ridiculous. We expect bugs, we expect problems.
There's bugs and there's unacceptable issues, particularly with consoles. Things need to be tweaked and optimized to get decent frame rates out of a console, and since over 50% of the sales of CP2077 will be on consoles it only makes sense to do everything possible to insure they have decent performance.

If this means delaying the release for us PC types that's fine. CDPR has never been on the exclusivity bandwagon, and I hope they never are.
 
"Content complete" basically means that the game can be completed from beginning to end.

Which is what they said SUMMER TWO YEARS AGO. That statement also means nothing. Why even make statements that are totally meaningless then? What is their advertising campaign if not total fabrication?

This is just spinning words to cover their butt. They said they were "confident" in the april release date back during E3 2019. Now they said they are "confident" in december date. None of these statements amount to anything. If "gone gold" means nothing to a company who has "cd" in their bloody name, then nothing does.
 
Which is what they said SUMMER TWO YEARS AGO. That statement also means nothing. Why even make statements that are totally meaningless then? What is their advertising campaign if not total fabrication?

This is just spinning words to cover their butt. They said they were "confident" in the april release date back during E3 2019. Now they said they are "confident" in december date. None of these statements amount to anything. If "gone gold" means nothing to a company who has "cd" in their bloody name, then nothing does.

Plans are not meaningless...they're plans. Plans don't always work. When a plan fails to come to fruition, one has three choices:

1.) Do something else, sacrificing some level of quality or focus, and potentially lessen the final value of the project.

2.) Ditch the whole project as a whole.

3.) Buckle down and keep working, even though it's going to take longer. Maybe a lot longer. (Maybe hella longer.) But it'll get there in the end.

Every single one of those choices is a risk that may cost the people involved potentially everything. Only one of those choices is going to reach the goal.
 
Which is what they said SUMMER TWO YEARS AGO. That statement also means nothing. Why even make statements that are totally meaningless then? What is their advertising campaign if not total fabrication?

This is just spinning words to cover their butt. They said they were "confident" in the april release date back during E3 2019. Now they said they are "confident" in december date. None of these statements amount to anything. If "gone gold" means nothing to a company who has "cd" in their bloody name, then nothing does.

Wait, two years ago? I remember the first time they said the game was "ready" was this summer, when they announced the delay from september to november and let journalists play the game for the first time (4 hours on a instable but complete version of the game).
In the Q&A with the investors from last week, they also said that the game was certified by Sony and Microsoft. That means that the game is there and it's in a state that can be printed on discs, and the problems that are still there can be solved via patch. Otherwise the game can't be certified. And physical copies are already in their warehouses.

Also there is another thing to consider. The new release date is december 10. The day one patch must be ready way before that day, because updates must be certified too.
Plus, they will ship the game to journalists and youtubers for reviews way before the release too, and I guess they'll have to send them a version of the game that is already good enough to be reviewed.
So everything must be ready a bit earlier than december 10. I really don't think they can work on a day one patch until december 9.
So maybe it's just a matter of a few more days needed to complete the day one patch.

Who knows, maybe journalists are already playing the game right now and can't say a word until the embargo expires.

But yeah, all their statements now mean nothing. They can say whatever they want, we won't believe it until they prove the product is actually ready.
 
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