Tying up loose ends. Why can't we finish off the avocados?

[Ouroboros612]

Main Story Spoilers

---

At some point we are forced to make contact with the Avocados or w/e their name is. That Nomad gang Panam is a part of. However there is some seriously lacking roleplaying options there. If you hate those guys you never get closure. Because you can try, and try, and try. You can't wipe them out. There's like some silly "essential NPC" stuff going on. So for the love of god give us an option to side with BioTechnica, the Wraiths, anything. In a way that lets us wipe them out. This should be possible regardless the second their minimum mandatory requirement for the main quest has been fulfilled.

What happened to this setting being dark, dystopian, hopeless etc.? What happened to those of us wanting to RP cruel, manipulative and evil characters? We get nothing here. The only remotely acceptable ending variation is leaving Saul to die and getting a hate message from Panam.

The wraiths should offer you to take them out.
If you accept you can slaughter them all.
When Panam calls you in despair on the phone telling you what happened. Something like:

PANAM (Crying): "V! I need your help. S-someone... someone killed them all. My clan...".

You can go:

V: "I know. It was me".

It can also be Biotechnica. Kidnap them all. Or just go full murder hobo IDK. It's just really out of place forcing us players into accepting this bonding with Panam and her clan as anything other than a ruse. Where's the roleplaying in that? I'm a backstabbing cold-hearted, pragmatic, manipulating, machiavellian corpo bitch. Not some samaritan saint walking around blessing and healing people.

Just please. GIve us anything. Just disabling them as essential NPCs would be fine tbh. But I think the wraiths hiring you would be a nice touch. Another cool way to deviate this quest line is when Mitch invites you to bury Scorpion. We could be given the option to knock out Mitch and place him in the seat next to Scorpion, and wake him up in time for take-off. Then lie and tell Panam that Mitch decided to bury himself with Scorpion, while in actuality killing him, so that Panam is ruined by guilt. However this option of course - would prevent you from mounting Mitch and Panam's heads on your new Wraith car. Maybe taxidermy their heads so they don't become unrecognizable. Something like that. Never liked the Avocados, please stop forcing us out of roleplaying options completely. It doesn't make sense that my V would leave loose ends like this. This isn't supposed to be some happy ever after adventure fairytale.

 

[Guest 4561861]

The story options are weak in this game. Shoot the coupling! If you don't, the train still gets there. You can't tell Panam you won't meet her and have anything come of it, like her and the vets going out and dying while they try, or losing one or two during the attempt. After leaving the Avocado's (now you got it stuck in my head) camp not even an game hour later V gets a message from Panam that says she had a quick gig outside of night city, and the only replies were crap about Judy that didn't happen during that one hour.
There are many when I don't want to pick one of the choices of dialog while being driven someplace but there is no option to skip it so it's onscreen the entire ride.

 

[AlienSpaceBats]

You have a number of options if you really want to ruin the avocados anyway.

We could be given the option to knock out Mitch and place him in the seat next to Scorpion, and wake him up in time for take-off. Then lie and tell Panam that Mitch decided to bury himself with Scorpion, while in actuality killing him, so that Panam is ruined by guilt. However this option of course - would prevent you from mounting Mitch and Panam's heads on your new Wraith car. Maybe taxidermy their heads so they don't become unrecognizable.

This isn't supposed to be some happy ever after adventure fairytale.

It isn't supposed to be a snuff fantasy simulator either.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Why can't we finish off the avocados?

Well, because V was never written to be a crazy psychopath...
At worse, a ruthless merc who can either totally ignore the Aldecaldos (the quests you mention are optional anyway...), either agree to "help" them just for money (V can say it to Panam several time during these quests), either simply piss off them by let them down or even betray Panam.

 

[LadyMiseryAli]

V is a merc, not a sociopath.

 

[DonLuzolvaz]

Main Story Spoilers

---

At some point we are forced to make contact with the Avocados or w/e their name is. That Nomad gang Panam is a part of. However there is some seriously lacking roleplaying options there. If you hate those guys you never get closure. Because you can try, and try, and try. You can't wipe them out. There's like some silly "essential NPC" stuff going on. So for the love of god give us an option to side with BioTechnica, the Wraiths, anything. In a way that lets us wipe them out. This should be possible regardless the second their minimum mandatory requirement for the main quest has been fulfilled.

What happened to this setting being dark, dystopian, hopeless etc.? What happened to those of us wanting to RP cruel, manipulative and evil characters? We get nothing here. The only remotely acceptable ending variation is leaving Saul to die and getting a hate message from Panam.

The wraiths should offer you to take them out.
If you accept you can slaughter them all.
When Panam calls you in despair on the phone telling you what happened. Something like:

PANAM (Crying): "V! I need your help. S-someone... someone killed them all. My clan...".

You can go:

V: "I know. It was me".

It can also be Biotechnica. Kidnap them all. Or just go full murder hobo IDK. It's just really out of place forcing us players into accepting this bonding with Panam and her clan as anything other than a ruse. Where's the roleplaying in that? I'm a backstabbing cold-hearted, pragmatic, manipulating, machiavellian corpo bitch. Not some samaritan saint walking around blessing and healing people.

Just please. GIve us anything. Just disabling them as essential NPCs would be fine tbh. But I think the wraiths hiring you would be a nice touch. Another cool way to deviate this quest line is when Mitch invites you to bury Scorpion. We could be given the option to knock out Mitch and place him in the seat next to Scorpion, and wake him up in time for take-off. Then lie and tell Panam that Mitch decided to bury himself with Scorpion, while in actuality killing him, so that Panam is ruined by guilt. However this option of course - would prevent you from mounting Mitch and Panam's heads on your new Wraith car. Maybe taxidermy their heads so they don't become unrecognizable. Something like that. Never liked the Avocados, please stop forcing us out of roleplaying options completely. It doesn't make sense that my V would leave loose ends like this. This isn't supposed to be some happy ever after adventure fairytale.

Why would V want to kill the entire camp? Did you have the option to kill everyone that you didn't like in TW3? Besides that, you've got plenty of opportunities to just leave the camp and forget about them. As others have mentioned: V isn't a crazy person. Just don't do their quests after you finish ghost town. If this eases your pain, V can be the cause of Saul's death in "Riders on the storm".

 

[AikoHayashi]

I don't recall any cyberpunk stories where the protagonist becomes a psycho serial killer. If you want to be the psychopath who wants to kill everybody you play the wrong game.

 

[Guest 4561861]

Why can't we finish off the avocados?

Well, because V was never written to be a crazy psychopath...
At worse, a ruthless merc who can either totally ignore the Aldecaldos (the quests you mention are optional anyway...), either agree to "help" them just for money (V can say it to Panam several time during these quests), either simply piss off them by let them down or even betray Panam.

V is a merc, not a sociopath.

V is no longer V. V is Johnny plus V. Johnny didn't (and it 2077 still doesn't) mind killing a few thousand.
Many times when I do a playthrough, V kills off dozens of Voodoo Boys (for some strange twisted reason not the two outside the GYM). V can kill off many peeps just to get to Woodman. V kills random gang members who are just sitting around because V wants a few eddies and a pistol. V can mow down Militech personnel just out of hate. V and Jackie kill off a few dozen hotel security workers just to get away from the botched heist. V may kill pedestrians while chasing a cop car or a spy van or even racing. V can kill peeps dancing around a truck outside.
If you scan them, you may notice that many of the Aldecaldos have bounties on them. Why shouldn't they be fair game?

 

[LadyMiseryAli]

V is no longer V. V is Johnny plus V. Johnny didn't (and it 2077 still doesn't) mind killing a few thousand.
Many times when I do a playthrough, V kills off dozens of Voodoo Boys (for some strange twisted reason not the two outside the GYM). V can kill off many peeps just to get to Woodman. V kills random gang members who are just sitting around because V wants a few eddies and a pistol. V can mow down Militech personnel just out of hate. V and Jackie kill off a few dozen hotel security workers just to get away from the botched heist. V may kill pedestrians while chasing a cop car or a spy van or even racing. V can kill peeps dancing around a truck outside.
If you scan them, you may notice that many of the Aldecaldos have bounties on them. Why shouldn't they be fair game?

Far be it from me to tell others how to play the game they paid for, but I play my V as a merc. He kills gangoons because gangoons are scum. They are murderers and abusers. Scavs are the worst, so no mercy for any of them either. My V doesn't kill unless there's cause. But I think overall, whether or not Johnny is present, V is not supposed to just kill just because they don't like someone.

 

[Guest 4561861]

Far be it from me to tell others how to play the game they paid for, but I play my V as a merc. He kills gangoons because gangoons are scum. They are murderers and abusers. Scavs are the worst, so no mercy for any of them either. My V doesn't kill unless there's cause. But I think overall, whether or not Johnny is present, V is not supposed to just kill just because they don't like someone.

Well written and proves the point. You want to play V as a merc. Okay, nobody's stopping you. Of course V then does kill a few peeps that the fixers send them after just "to right a wrong." The Aldecaldos are basically gangoons. They kill Militech people just to steal the Basilisk. They mostly have bounties on their heads.
Each to their own. But some players aren't able to play their chosen way because CDPR said no.

 

[strangerr3]

Nomads are portrayed a bit too bright in a game for me and I would definitely accept some more harsh approach towards aldecaldos, but wiping off whole clan seems just crazy.

Game has its limits - V was never meant to side with biotechnica, maelstrom and any other factions and is kind of lone wolf trying to save own life.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Let's proceed in order if I may

V is no longer V. V is Johnny plus V. Johnny didn't (and it 2077 still doesn't) mind killing a few thousand.

Outside of times during which Johnny take control of V's body, V remains V (slowly overwritted by Johnny, maybe influenced by Johnny, but V remains V). That's why you're allowed to do things that Johnny don't want to do (or say him to f..k off).

Many times when I do a playthrough, V kills off dozens of Voodoo Boys (for some strange twisted reason not the two outside the GYM). V can kill off many peeps just to get to Woodman. V kills random gang members who are just sitting around because V wants a few eddies and a pistol. V can mow down Militech personnel just out of hate. V and Jackie kill off a few dozen hotel security workers just to get away from the botched heist. V may kill pedestrians while chasing a cop car or a spy van or even racing. V can kill peeps dancing around a truck outside.

Well, you noticed that I said "V was never written to be..." ?

So indeed, outside of the story or quests, you can play V as a psychopath if you want to. But even, it's why you don't have any benefit to kill civilians or cops... And also why cops "jump" on you when you kill civilians. Because CDPR didn't write V to be a psychopath.

And during quests, as you mentionned, V kill a bunch of dudes. But it's mostly matter of life or death. In the Konpeki, it's either you kill them, either they kill you. The same goes for most quests... I don't have in mind a single times during which you're allowed to kill people for no reason outside to reach your goal or defending your own life.

So again, it's a story-driven RPG in which CDPR decided that V will be a merc. A merc that you can role play between being the nice merc or a ruthless merc, but not a psychopath or a mass-murderer.
Cyberpunk is not a "sandbox" Bethesda game in which "you can be who you want to be".

If you scan them, you may notice that many of the Aldecaldos have bounties on them. Why shouldn't they be fair game?

Jackie has a bounty, Judy have a bounty, Kerry have a bounty, in fact most of character you meet in the game have a bounty

 

[DjSpyder]

Some of those ideas for "dealing" with the Aldecaldos are pretty dark, just sayin'.

But anyway, you can absolutely turn on them, and there are ample opportunities to kill some of them, outside of main quests. The guys who hassle Gary the prophet for one, you can talk them down sure, or ignore them, but you can also just kill them to protect him. random Aldecaldos out in the badlands with their cars stopped on the road, in fact the only Aldecaldos you can't kill are story necessary ones, or the ones inside "Safe zones" which is a pretty common gaming thing,

Now having said that, destroying that relationship doesn't have any real major impact except locking out an ending. And sure, for a super deep RPG it would be nice for things to feel "bigger" or more meaningful but unfortunately that ain't CP2077, V is your V sure, but they still exist in a somewhat defined role, more like a Geralt than let's say a Fallout Character and even with those games there are limits.

But the real thing here is, what would be the benefit of going full Cyberpsycho and killing the entire clan? Helping them gets rewards, either cash, items, or Help raiding Arasaka if you choose that ending. But V murdering an entire clan.... that's just nothing, maybe if the game had a fully fleshed out renown system with alliances and bounties and things like that where it could affect the game play systems and open up new factions and have the player "Hunted" by them sure it would make sense. But as the game is, there isn't a satisfying game system, or story reason to make it actually good RP mechanics.

And since it's highly unlikely to get that big of a change at this point, i don't see them adding any of what you're asking for here. Maybe in the sequel they'll really flesh out the RP aspect of it and let you go full villain if you want and really "break the story" they're trying to tell, but it's just not coming to this game. And side note, I'm not against having a path where the player goes full evil, Baulder's Gate 3 has already said that is a choice you can make and I think that's great, but that game is also a MUCH deeper RPG. And plenty of other games have done it as well, but in order for it to be fun, it either needs to be GTA like sandbox OR have a fully functioning morality system and CP just doesn't fit those boxes.

 

[Guest 4561861]

So again, it's a story-driven RPG in which CDPR decided that V will be a merc.

Jackie has a bounty, Judy have a bounty, Kerry have a bounty, in fact most of character you meet in the game have a bounty

Besides V being a merc, CDPR has also written V as a bounty hunter. Every NCPD action, such as crime in progress, or reported crime, or suspected organized crime activity is as a bounty hunter, not a merc. Randomly taking down gangoons is as a bounty hunter, not a merc. So, if Aldecaldos have bounties on them, it would be in V's character to take them down and collect the bounty.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Besides V being a merc, CDPR has also written V as a bounty hunter. Every NCPD action, such as crime in progress, or reported crime, or suspected organized crime activity is as a bounty hunter, not a merc. Randomly taking down gangoons is as a bounty hunter, not a merc. So, if Aldecaldos have bounties on them, it would be in V's character to take them down and collect the bounty.

I guess you'll say that I play with words, but as far as I know, you're hired and get payed by NCPD to complete mercenary jobs (hunting gang leaders, clearing an area from a gang threat,...) in the same way you're hired and get paid by fixers to achieve GIGs. And as far as I know, nobody never asked V to hunt the Aldecaldos...

Outside of the quests, GIGs and NCPD Scanner Hustles, you have the liberty to play as a psychopath, but it's not something supported by the story in any way.

But you get the point in your previous post :

But some players aren't able to play their chosen way because CDPR said no.

At some point, CDPR decided that V won't be a psychopath and written the whole game in that way. V is not a totally blank character that you can play in the way you want (it's "only" from a nice merc to ruthless merc, that's all).

 

[Notserious80]

I would agree with having the option to do these things, i would personally not do it and ive never played like a psycopath but. For me the best RPGs are the ones you can do what ever you want pretty much. Rarely happends too be that way tho and i kinda get why. It would break the game, but hey if i wanna break it so be it Ultima hade something like that, a sword that wiped out every npc.

 

[DjSpyder]

I would agree with having the option to do these things, i would personally not do it and ive never played like a psycopath but. For me the best RPGs are the ones you can do what ever you want pretty much. Rarely happends too be that way tho and i kinda get why. It would break the game, but hey if i wanna break it so be it Ultima hade something like that, a sword that wiped out every npc.

I agree with this, my only real caveat is that, the game needs to be built to account for it in some way. And CP2077 as it is will just break, but not in the fun broken way in the just normal broken way.

I'd love a fully blank slate, customizable, not "Defined backstory" character in the sequel with evil choices and a full on "bad guy path". But to the OPs request to make these changes to CP2077, I just see no way that happens at this point.

 

[Ouroboros612]

Most of you have good arguments here, both for and against. I apologize if my example went a bit too deep into crazy evil. I'm thankful that you all kept your replies constructive despite me maybe not deserving it - going off the rails on this. I just think that it boils down to being able to get closure without missing content. If you tell Panam and her clan "our business is done - bye" you are basically in a position of:

1) Miss out on a lot of game content, by being yourself.
2) Experience a lot more game content, by being someone you're not.

There should be a third option here. Like getting some unique content in a way that does not force you to be pro-avocado. That's why I suggested being contacted by Biotechnica to kidnap their people, or the wraiths to assault them. Because then you'd have some enjoyable additional content with some new minor wraith/corpo characters, that fits into the narrative and brings closure with additional content. Without forcing you to be a good person to experience more content.

From a workload and time perspective for the devs, giving V such options all over simply isn't possible. However I wish there were some darker ways we could handle these follow-up core story branches. As it stands. If V is a good person, these stories can be expanded upon. If V is not a good person, he/she gets nothing. I hope you see what I'm getting at. Basically if V is a good person he/she gets more content, but there NO alternative for content if you want to go down a darker road.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Most of you have good arguments here, both for and against.

I just want to precise that I'm not really against. The more options there are to role play your character, the better
So yeah, it would be great to have more quests branching, more decisions which matter,... but with the game as it currently is, playing V as "evil/psychopath/murderer" don't have any sense. CDPR written V to be rather a "good guy" with some nuances that players can role play (more or less ruthless). It's why it's interesting to have Johnny in V's head, they're pretty much the opposite (V is more or less a nice, young, optimistic and hopeful guy, while Johnny is an old, grumpy, merciless, pesimistic and violent guy).

(let's hope by using UE5 for the next Cyberpunk game, devs will have more time to offer more "role playing" options).

 

[Iferrebee]

Cyberpunk is not really a role playing game

It's an interactive book
You are playing CDPR's story
Not your own