Uggh. So this is improved? [NPC Clones]

+
So I haven't played for quite some time. Like three patches time. Played today to the point where you go down to meet Jackie your first morning, and when I walked over to get in my car, I saw seven, count them, seven guys, all exact clones of one another, along with three gal clones. Never saw duplicates this close together before, and never in these kind of numbers. If this is an improvement I'd hate to think what a step back would look like. Totally ruined any sense of immersion and makes me want to quit again already.
 

Guest 3847602

Guest
It's a subtle reference to the iconic scene from TW3:



It happens on occasion, but not very often from what I could see. They've supposedly introduced more variations of NPC models to decrease the likelihood of clones being spawned at the same place, but I doubt it's something that can be completely eradicated. It comes down to good and bad luck.
 
Honestly to some extent I agree that people seem a little hypersensitive to things that "break immersion" around this game. The other day I came across a comment elsewhere that the fact the line where the rain stopped on the ground didn't match the rain itself "broke my immersion".

I mean, OK, then wait for the holodeck to be developed in 2225 or so.

(OP, your complaint is rather more understandable than the rain shadow one.)
 
Anyway, you have to say that given the number of NPCs displayed, the number of different types (always limited) and the randomness of their appearance, I doubt that this kind of problem can be solved one day.
To be sure not to have the same NPC twice at the same time, you would need an insane number of different models.

Little example (certainly wrong) :
5000 NPC models.
50 NPC on the screen at the same time.
You have 1% of chance to have 2 same models at the same time.
1% it's a lot for 5K models :(
 
Last edited:
Honestly to some extent I agree that people seem a little hypersensitive to things that "break immersion" around this game. The other day I came across a comment elsewhere that the fact the line where the rain stopped on the ground didn't match the rain itself "broke my immersion".

I mean, OK, then wait for the holodeck to be developed in 2225 or so.

(OP, your complaint is rather more understandable than the rain shadow one.)
There are a few people who are out of all proportion disgusted that the water isn't responsive to shooting, smacking, etc.

I mean, yeah, it's 2021, you're right, that's dumb, but it's also a small, small thing.

Of all the immersion breakers in 2077 (Civilian AI, bikini tops with better armor than actual armored vests, making Railguns out of discarded cans, car races you can't lose, a Combat Zone that you don't have to do combat in, a million inhalers just lying around that heal you back to full from nearly dead in a setting where people pay thousands to armed ambulance crews) things like poorly responsive water and NPCs that look the same are not really a big deal.

Even if all of those other issues were fixed, still not a big deal.

Oh and cloning has been a thing since 2020, actually! Cloned organs and limbs available commercially since 2009 iirc, and full human cloning since about 2020. No, I don't think that's why.
 
Comparing gameplay mechanics and design aesthetics to overall visual fidelity of the game? Not a very good argumentation.


First of all, water effects and people that don't look like made with [ctrl]+[c]/[ctrl]+[v] are things that the audience is most familiar with and can relate to. Human beings need those things for the purpose of points of reference. Remove everything relatable from the game and you will get a Salvador Dali paintings. No, even better: abstract images.
It's called "otherwordly but relatable" and it's one of the rules of creating fiction.


Things like medkits, health points, armour made by horny designers for horny gamers- they are all offset by things of day-to-day use, like gravity. Like ripples on the surface of the water when you throw a rock or fire a weapon. Like a sound of footsteps.


Make everything not working as a normal human being would expect and you get an immersion breaking mess.
Other than that, keep in mind two things:

1. This engine is the future of CDPR games. Wanna see people disappearing when you turn your head and water not having "water effects" in your Witcher 4?
2. We are not game developers, we don't work for CDPR, we are not "in the crew", they are not our friends. We literally pay them money for what they create. It's their responsibility to make good games, not ours to make excuses for their shortcomings.
 
So I haven't played for quite some time. Like three patches time. Played today to the point where you go down to meet Jackie your first morning, and when I walked over to get in my car, I saw seven, count them, seven guys, all exact clones of one another, along with three gal clones. Never saw duplicates this close together before, and never in these kind of numbers. If this is an improvement I'd hate to think what a step back would look like. Totally ruined any sense of immersion and makes me want to quit again already.
My suggestion would be to play a few more hours to see if it occurs more often.
Could be that it is a coincidence you happen to run into it right then and there.
 
Anyway, you have to say that given the number of NPCs displayed, the number of different types (always limited) and the randomness of their appearance, I doubt that this kind of problem can be solved one day.
To be sure not to have the same NPC twice at the same time, you would need an insane number of different models.

Little example (certainly wrong) :
5000 NPC models.
50 NPC on the screen at the same time.
You have 1% of chance to have 2 same models at the same time.
1% it's a lot for 5K models :(

If that's how it works, the algorithm for NPC generation needs some work. If they use random seed generators to determine NPCs, they really ought to do a pass where they remove duplicates and regenerate (This isn't really good, because random is random, and the time it would take to ensure 100% unique seeds might cause a long running loop) or, you know, have a pre-generated seed table and pick X from it.
 
I have crowd density set to max, I see duplicates. I remember reading somewhere that it was partly down to the speed with which these NPC's have to be generated that led to some duplicates but I really don't care. My focus is on the game and if I was that bothered I'd turn down crowd density.


1624434361563.png
 
If the characters in the game had different faces, different body types and different hair styles, but wore the same clothes, it would make a lot of sense, just like that photo above.


Here's one of my favourite quotes: "unlike real world, fiction has to make sense". Clones make no sense. It's obvious that same-looking NPCs in games really ARE the same NPC models. Bringing up a real-life example of SIMILARLY looking people is a non-argument here.


Being apologetic won't make the game better. Not reporting on bugs and shortcomings won't bring us more patches and improvements. I was a witness to events where an entire department would get upset by the decision of the supervisor, yet nobody would speak up. I was also a witness of events where a single person would say exactly what everybody else's thinking but has no courage to say something.
We are the audience and it's up to us to dictate the level quality, not up to them.
 
Ive been playing the first Watch Dogs recently and that world of Chicago feels more alive and lived in than Cyberpunk, even though the City is beautiful.

Weather, wind, clothing in the breeze, people walking from place to place talking, doing jobs, I even saw cars parking and people getting out and visiting places.

Not to mention the ai, cops responding to public phone calls and witnesses, chasing you down, using tactics, getting out of vehicles and chasing you on foot.

This game came out in 2014!
 
Not to mention the ai, cops responding to public phone calls and witnesses, chasing you down, using tactics, getting out of vehicles and chasing you on foot.

This game came out in 2014!
I mean... I get Cyberpunk's AI is a bit braindead, but this comparison is straight WHACK. After all you are comparing OG Watch Dogs to Cyberpunk 2077. Two totally different games. You're literally a fugitive hacker in the former game. A fugitive hacker. The entire god damn game's story & mechanics were designed to fit that one single idea. If the big bad virtual policemen are incapable of even almost capturing me in a game where the point is that I'm on the run, what's the point?
 
You have 1% of chance
If they use random seed generators to determine NPCs,

That would be too simple not to be fixed. Just have a list and cross out any NPCs you've picked before you select next one. IMHO the dupes are more to do with resource management, than just plain spawn logic. Since the NPCs are very detailed i imagine they take up a lot of resources. Imagine you have 10 NPC resources in VRAM and you're looking at 5 gangoons in a corner and twitch your camera 180degrees to a busy street. You need to draw them NOW! So what's it gonna be? Empty street? 5 different NPCs in front and others slowy popping in further? Or have the street filled with inappropriate gangoons? Now this significantly complicates things compared to just loading any of 1000 NPCs from disk at leisure.

I imagine if they have time to implement more granular graphics settings to tailor various hardware configurations this will get fixed.

1. This engine is the future of CDPR games.
TBH this is the only thing that gives me hope to have a nice playtrough in a year.. or few, where the game runs as the Devs had imagined. Even if they stop working on Cyberpunk until next title engine improvements should trickle down from any work done during W4 develoment.
 
Last edited:
Honestly, NPCs cloning is a thing that's recurring in games since forever, so it doesn't bother me too much. You could say i'm used to it. Am i saying that it's perfect the way it is? Not in the slightest, but there are much worse things that need to be improved in the game first, both technical and content level.

At this point, i feel nearly everyone is expecting CDPR to show the community their goodwill and release, or at least announce, new content for the game. A great bulk of gamers, myself included, want to know if CDPR is still actually interested in giving the game a "second life", so to speak, thus dispelling the general fear that the game will be slowly left to die because it's not so profitable anymore.

I used to be one of the most enthusiastic supporters of the game, both on the net and in RL, and i still am in a sense, because there's much to be loved about the game... but after six and a half months of absolutely zero new content released, and basic things like many perks not working still not working to this date, one can wonder if actions will actually follow words.
 
I mean... I get Cyberpunk's AI is a bit braindead, but this comparison is straight WHACK. After all you are comparing OG Watch Dogs to Cyberpunk 2077. Two totally different games. You're literally a fugitive hacker in the former game. A fugitive hacker. The entire god damn game's story & mechanics were designed to fit that one single idea. If the big bad virtual policemen are incapable of even almost capturing me in a game where the point is that I'm on the run, what's the point?
How is it whack? Those elements surround the narrative from a 7 year old game.

Those elements are there in Cyberpunk but minimal and badly implemented. It has nothing to do with genre.

You shoot guns and throw grenades in watch dogs and get chased by police and drive cars and walk. You shoot guns, throw grenades, drive cars, walk and get chased by police in cyberpunk. One game did it better than the other. Story is a side issue.

Watch dogs, much like the witches 3 has a really effective weather system with wind and blowing trees, power lines, waves and rain. Cyberpunk by comparison has a flat environment with minimum foliage movement, sparse weather and minimal water effects.

Its should be much, much better than it is.
 
Top Bottom