In my Witcher 3 playthroughs I never romance Triss, I didn't romance her in the previous games either. So, yesterday I happened to watch this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U30lNvKPOy4
and there's a scene (from 1'45") that hit me hard and made me feel very bitter. At first I thought that the title of the video was wrong and that the video was about Geralt and Yen romance that I had already played and often saw in similar videos... then I realized that no, it wasn't Yen & Geralt romance, it was Geralt and Triss. And that's when everything felt so wrong.
I'm talking about Yennefer kissing Geralt... it looks so mean and wrong, out of character even. Most of the people who don't like Yen always justify their opinion on the fact that she's abrasive, controlling, sarcastic, etc. etc and to some extent I might agree. A mean-spirited Yen though? No, she was never mean spirited and never acted like this, neither in the game, nor in the books. Plus, the fact that Triss (the Oh, so lovely Triss! Remember? She's lovely!) reacts as true Lady, forgiving her poor friend it's so - pardon my rude candor - nauseating.
I don't understand why CD PR decided to make Yen a character who deserves the hatred of everybody in the game, from common folks in Skellige, to Lambert and the generally benevolent Vesemir. Why? Even Ciri refuses to say Yen goodbye in one of the three endings, and she never calls her "mom" once in the entire game.
On a broader scope, why CDPR insisted on taking a forgiving stance on everything that in the Witcher world is manipulative and inherently dishonest, while condemning everything that is honest and straight?
Don't get me wrong, except for the above part I generally like the way they managed to create a realistic relationship between Geralt and Yennefer, their banter is lovely and pretty believable, natural and apt with their personalities.
ETA: forgive me if this topic has already been discussed, it's been a while since I last checked the forums and a while since my last Wild Hunt playthrough.
Aside from other threads that I have argued the Yen/Geralt/Triss thing to death in *ahem*... Honestly to me that just looks like pent up joy. Yen is happy that Geralt found Ciri, brought her back and is just expressing how happy she is to everyone around her and Geralt is right there, having just brought Ciri back, looking smug. Whatever her feelings/relationship status/whatever are aside, she's just exuberant at the fact that Ciri is alive. Overwhelming joy.
eloise;n8087330 said:
It looks so mean and wrong, out of character even.
I'm not really a fan of Yen, for the abrasive and controlling reasons you listed, and I didn't even see it as mean or wrong.
I doubt that her kissing Geralt was meant to be mean or an act of jealousy in any way. I've seen people react in similar ways when they are overjoyed at something (Granted it's never been grabbing someone and full on kissing them on the mouth, but I've seen drawn out hugs and kisses on the cheek between friends of the opposite gender, or even the same gender) that they can't hold back. She was just happy, acted on impulse in that situation, and it was awkward. Triss understood, they all moved on.
eloise;n8087330 said:
On a broader scope, why CDPR insisted on taking a forgiving stance on everything that in the Witcher world is manipulative and inherently dishonest, while condemning everything that is honest and straight?
Don't know that they did this really... They just portrayed the world as it was written to some degree. I mean you had Foltest fathering his daughter on his sister. Royalty/nobility/sorceresses generally being assholish maniupulating bastards... just kind of the way things are in the world of the Witcher, and kinda how things were in Medieval times overall. I don't really see where they were "forgiving" about it though.
Well CDPR did regress Yennefer's characterization (they did it for other characters too). Where was her interactions with Ciri--it was non-existent in the games. Her character growth througout the novels is given to other characters (see Triss https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/com...n_the_witcher/
There was a whole thread adressing her characterization and lack of interaction with Ciri and CDPR didn't want to adress it. She's angry at Geralt for his amnesia and his relationship with Triss even though she also had amnesia and would have rather been furious with Triss (Thanedd and Rivia). She desecrated the garden on Skellige even though she was respectful of religions in the books. Her personality is that of the short stories and not of the main saga or end of Lady of the Lake.
Other charcters were affected too--Ciri, Eredin, Avallac'h. Ciri is reduced to a "Mary-Sue" with no real faults. She always wanted to be a witcher and wanted to escape her destiny, but she can be empress in the game. Eredin is dumbed down (~13 lines of dialogue) and Avallac'h is 'helpful' to Ciri (even though he's supposed ot find her repulsive).
Aside from other threads that I have argued the Yen/Geralt/Triss thing to death in *ahem*... Honestly to me that just looks like pent up joy. Yen is happy that Geralt found Ciri, brought her back and is just expressing how happy she is to everyone around her and Geralt is right there, having just brought Ciri back, looking smug. Whatever her feelings/relationship status/whatever are aside, she's just exuberant at the fact that Ciri is alive. Overwhelming joy.
I'm not really a fan of Yen, for the abrasive and controlling reasons you listed, and I didn't even see it as mean or wrong.
I doubt that her kissing Geralt was meant to be mean or an act of jealousy in any way. I've seen people react in similar ways when they are overjoyed at something (Granted it's never been grabbing someone and full on kissing them on the mouth, but I've seen drawn out hugs and kisses on the cheek between friends of the opposite gender, or even the same gender) that they can't hold back. She was just happy, acted on impulse in that situation, and it was awkward. Triss understood, they all moved on.
At first I thought that too, that she was acting moved by joy and gratitude. The problem is, though, that Yennefer always controls her emotions and doesn't manifest them blatantly because she has suffered greatly from rejection in the past, and she was rejected by Geralt, the man she sacrificed her life for. I mean, it would have been more natural for her if she acted coldly, despite the obvious fact that she was grateful that Geralt was able to take their daughter back.
Furthermore, consider that the kiss happens exactly the moment Triss enters the scene, thus is sort of inevitable to think that Yen kissed Geralt also to hurt Triss (in both romance options, whether it is Geralt romancing Yen or Triss it seems mean).
Corewolf;n8087390 said:
Don't know that they did this really... They just portrayed the world as it was written to some degree. I mean you had Foltest fathering his daughter on his sister. Royalty/nobility/sorceresses generally being assholish maniupulating bastards... just kind of the way things are in the world of the Witcher, and kinda how things were in Medieval times overall. I don't really see where they were "forgiving" about it though.
Don't get me wrong, CD PR described that world perfectly, they never shy away from depicting cruelty, deceit, rape, violence exactly as they are. What I mean though, is that they are very forgiving in regards to Triss and very, very unforgiving in regards to Yennefer.
Besides the fact that some people like Triss and some like Yen and that those people have the right to like what they want, for whatever reason they want, there are facts that cannot be overlooked. It's a fact that Triss betrayed them in the name of the Lodge (in the books) and it's a fact that she took advantage of Geralt's amnesia. It's also a fact that Yennefer went to great lenghts to save Geralt and Ciri. Please, bear with me while I try to explain what I mean, it's taking me some time to sort things out.
It's indisputable that CD PR pushed Triss, made her the character that the player would love because, what's not to love after all? She's a redhead, she's lovely, lively, she's the damsel in distress... she caters to those who love to feel like the good knight errant, etc. And that's the point... the fact that CDPR and the NPCs keep forgetting and keep forgiving that Triss has acted in an extremely manipulative way is something that doesn't belong in the Witcher world. Not a word from Geralt when he realizes that he has been cheated, not a word from Vesemir, not a word from the always bitter Lambert. Yennefer though? Madman Lugos insults her, Vesemir is annoyed by her, the people in Skellige, despite the fact that Yennefer proved that she was a worthy person, loathe her and CDPR insist on telling us that the whole world hates her. It's some metanarrative stuff where the main goal is to deceive you to make you act the same way the people who hate Geralt because he's a mutant act? Or is it simply because they had to justify Triss' presence in the game despite the fact that a Geralt in his right mind would have never forgave her for her lies and silence?
Or is it simply because they had to justify Triss' presence in the game despite the fact that a Geralt in his right mind would have never forgave her for her lies and silence?
I agree with basically everything you wrote. But by the logic of "The fact a Geralt in his right mind would have never forgave her for her lies and Silence"
Would he have forgiven Yen for not coming to find him... or say, ANYONE else (Dandelion, Vesemir, Lambert, Eskel, Zoltan) that could have told him "You were in love with this black haired chick named Yennifer. Here is everything that went down for the most part"
I mean I guess he is just a forgiving person. Because a good number of them saw him and Triss carrying on through game 1 and 2... and didn't say a word at all to him about it.
As to "The World" hating Yen. I think Samiel hit it on the nose when he said that CDPR regressed her character a fair bit. Yen was not exactly well liked by the common folk (Most Magic users weren't really... Even Blaviken only really tolerated Stregobor because he was useful).
Chalk that up to Yen's own amnesia? And its not like Yen just "forgives" Geralt or Triss outright. She hurls a perfectly good, comfortable bed out of the Kaer Morhen tower because Triss slept with Geralt in it, and if he presses her about it she teleports him over a lake.
Well CDPR did regress Yennefer's characterization (they did it for other characters too). Where was her interactions with Ciri--it was non-existent in the games. Her character growth througout the novels is given to other characters (see Triss https://www.reddit.com/r/witcher/com...n_the_witcher/
There was a whole thread adressing her characterization and lack of interaction with Ciri and CDPR didn't want to adress it. She's angry at Geralt for his amnesia and his relationship with Triss even though she also had amnesia and would have rather been furious with Triss (Thanedd and Rivia). She desecrated the garden on Skellige even though she was respectful of religions in the books. Her personality is that of the short stories and not of the main saga or end of Lady of the Lake.
Other charcters were affected too--Ciri, Eredin, Avallac'h. Ciri is reduced to a "Mary-Sue" with no real faults. She always wanted to be a witcher and wanted to escape her destiny, but she can be empress in the game. Eredin is dumbed down (~13 lines of dialogue) and Avallac'h is 'helpful' to Ciri (even though he's supposed ot find her repulsive).
It is true indeed that even Ciri and Avallac'h suffer from bad characterization. Especially in Ciri's case it is apparent. The person we are supposedly in a hurry to save, that we supposedly love as a daughter is... bland? Annoying? Our Nemesis too isn't as multifaceted as you would have expected from a CDPR creation.
In regards to Yen and Triss though it all becomes more apparent because you are caught in the middle and people around you always disapprove of your choice (even Dijkstra, for Melitele's sake!) if you leave Triss for Yen.
I know that it is impossible to change things as important as Ciri's personality or Yen's role in the world, but damn, it is a pity that a otherwise perfect world surprisingly fails to get those characters rights.
(And, yes, it may sound too mean, but I wish I could throwTriss into the fountain)
I agree with basically everything you wrote. But by the logic of "The fact a Geralt in his right mind would have never forgave her for her lies and Silence"
Would he have forgiven Yen for not coming to find him... or say, ANYONE else (Dandelion, Vesemir, Lambert, Eskel, Zoltan) that could have told him "You were in love with this black haired chick named Yennifer. Here is everything that went down for the most part"
I mean I guess he is just a forgiving person. Because a good number of them saw him and Triss carrying on through game 1 and 2... and didn't say a word at all to him about it.
As to "The World" hating Yen. I think Samiel hit it on the nose when he said that CDPR regressed her character a fair bit. Yen was not exactly well liked by the common folk (Most Magic users weren't really... Even Blaviken only really tolerated Stregobor because he was useful).
Chalk that up to Yen's own amnesia? And its not like Yen just "forgives" Geralt or Triss outright. She hurls a perfectly good, comfortable bed out of the Kaer Morhen tower because Triss slept with Geralt in it, and if he presses her about it she teleports him over a lake.
Let's pretend that what you say wasn't because CDPR didn't decide how to introduce Yen while creating Witcher 1 and 2.
CDPR could've fixed this by adding a bunch of dialogue lines in Wild Hunt; since Geralt regains his memory late in the Witcher 2, he could've asked (or talk with) Vesemir why he, Lambert and Eskel didn't mention Yennefer before. All that they could've said was that they didn't want to - I don't know - poke their noses into his relationship with Triss, especially considering that Triss was friend with Yen, and a friend would never act like she (Triss) did, right? Or something more elaborate, I know that CDPR can find something believable to validate or correct some faulty or misleading behaviour.
As for Yen, she regains her memory before Geralt does, but she didn't contact him because he was with Triss and she didn't imagine that Triss would've taken advantage of him in such a despicable fashion.
In regards to Geralt being a forgiving person, eh... since it's a RPG we're talking about, let the player choose if their Geralt is unforgiving or not. In the books he's pretty vengeful, isn't he? Or at least give me the chance to resolve this situation one way or the other.
Or is it simply because they had to justify Triss' presence in the game despite the fact that a Geralt in his right mind would have never forgave her for her lies and silence?
I debated this many times before, but I will never see Geralt as Triss' victim. Their romance happens on his initiative, he is the one that goes out of his way to seduce Triss, who even acts reluctant and is hesitant to start a relationship with Geralt(the ring, giving Alvin to her, acting a certain way around Alvin). She doesn't force Geralt to do anything, she doesn't come up with some evil manipulative plan to seduce him, she simply accepts his advances, which is not surprising considering how obsessed Triss was with him.
Also, what almost all of you fail to mention is that Triss did try talking about his past in the first game. When she tries mentioning some things from Geralt's past at the very beginning of TW1, he shuts her down and explicitly says he is not ready to talk about it yet(see http://imgur.com/P1j8D0l). Still, throughout the game Triss encourages him to form his own personality outside of her influence so that his memory can start returning on its own(http://imgur.com/RO9VzD1) which happens and as soon as he asks her about Yen, she comes clean. Triss did act shady and manipulative in not taking further initiative to bring up Yen and embracing a relationship with Geralt, but she had no idea what has happened to Yen an whether she is even alive. Still, Triss is at fault, but she was nowhere near as manipulative as some people try to present her. In BaW Geralt even tells Regis that Triss helped him get his memory back.
Another thing, even after learning about Yen and Ciri and what Triss did in the first game, at the beginning of TW2 during their trip to Flotsam, Geralt can still continue taking initiative and trying to romance Triss. Geralt is the one that suggests the bath at the elven ruins, not Triss. Also, Triss is the one who insist that Geralt abandons Roche and go search for Yen instead, saying that she will follow him to the end of the world to find Yen and how she owes her that and how she will understand if Geralt wants to go alone and separate from her(http://imgur.com/7NLfP7E). Geralt on the other hand has no problem postponing his search for Yennefer in favor of searching for Letho.
There are also the many, many good things Triss does for Geralt in the games, things that completely trump her manipulation imo. She directly saves Geralt's life 6-7 times, she helps witchers get their secrets from Salamandra, she takes Geralt's side against the Lodge during the Loc Muine meeting, she lets herself get tortured, she comes to help with the battle even if Geralt dumps her for Yen, she helps them locate the Lodge members and participates in the final battle. All of that is far more important to me than her being too weak to turn down Geralt.
About Yen, she is the first one to hold Geralt responsible and doesn't see him as Triss' victim and I fully agree with her. As far as the kiss I had no problem with it. Yen is not someone who lets her emotions control her, but at that time, seeing Ciri safe after so many years it's understandable that she lost control. I don't think she was trying to hurt Triss, that moment was all about Ciri imo.
Still, I'm all about player choice, so I wouldn't mind if they added an option to confront Triss for those players that feel that she took it too far, as long as they also added an option to say that there is nothing to forgive for those of us who feel that way. For my Geralt, when it comes to Triss, all her actions given, there is indeed nothing to forgive.
As for Yen, she regains her memory before Geralt does, but she didn't contact him because he was with Triss and she didn't imagine that Triss would've taken advantage of him in such a despicable fashion
Yeah, but then when she somehow finds out he gains his memory back at the end of 2. She sends him a letter with a PS that says "I totally still have that stuffed unicorn" knowing that Geralt would basically associate it with all the banging they did on it.
So... Still having not talked to him since he regained his memory... she jumps right into "Meet me in White Orchard quickly... Oh by the way unicorn sex"
That's a bit... odd. Especially if she had the thought at all that he hadn't lost his memory. Pretty sure she knew he was Amnesiac the whole time he was with Triss
I debated this many times before, but I will never see Geralt as Triss' victim. Their romance happens on his initiative, he is the one that goes out of his way to seduce Triss, who even acts reluctant and is hesitant to start a relationship with Geralt(the ring, giving Alvin to her, acting a certain way around Alvin). She doesn't force Geralt to do anything, she doesn't come up with some evil manipulative plan to seduce him, she simply accepts his advances, which is not surprising considering how obsessed Triss was with him.
Did it really happen on his initiative? It's been a while since I played the Witcher 1 and 2 but I never, and I mean NEVER, let Geralt indulge on Triss unless I was forced to. And I was force into Triss twice. First time in The Witcher 1 when despite the fact Geralt was romancing Shani, I chose to take Alvin to Triss because she was a sorceress and way more suitable to protect him and then she literally throws Geralt on the bed and then that famous card appeared. I didn't have any control on this episode. So, again, CDPR pushing Triss on the player.
Second time Geralt (and I) was forced into Triss, no need to go into many details: the beginning of The Witcher 2.
Hamilton1358;n8089720 said:
Also, what almost all of you fail to mention is that Triss did try talking about his past in the first game. When she tries mentioning some things from Geralt's past at the very beginning of TW1, he shuts her down and explicitly says he is not ready to talk about it yet(see http://imgur.com/P1j8D0l). Still, throughout the game Triss encourages him to form his own personality outside of her influence so that his memory can start returning on its own(http://imgur.com/RO9VzD1) which happens and as soon as he asks her about Yen, she comes clean. Triss did act shady and manipulative in not taking further initiative to bring up Yen and embracing a relationship with Geralt, but she had no idea what has happened to Yen an whether she is even alive. Still, Triss is at fault, but she was nowhere near as manipulative as some people try to present her. In BaW Geralt even tells Regis that Triss helped him get his memory back.
She tries to "mention some things from his past" and yet CD PR gave us no chance to actually delve into his past. Again, CDPR forcing Triss on us setting Yen aside.
I don't remember Geralt telling Regis that Triss helped him regain his memory, probably those dialogue lines depend on the choice the player has made, thus, if you choose Triss you get those dialogues, if not... well, not.
Hamilton1358;n8089720 said:
Another thing, even after learning about Yen and Ciri and what Triss did in the first game, at the beginning of TW2 during their trip to Flotsam, Geralt can still continue taking initiative and trying to romance Triss. Geralt is the one that suggests the bath at the elven ruins, not Triss. Also, Triss is the one who insist that Geralt abandons Roche and go search for Yen instead, saying that she will follow him to the end of the world to find Yen and how she owes her that and how she will understand if Geralt wants to go alone and separate from her(http://imgur.com/7NLfP7E). Geralt on the other hand has no problem postponing his search for Yennefer in favor of searching for Letho.
In your playthrough maybe. In my playthroughs Geralt doesn't try to romance Triss, doesn't give her the Rose of Remembrance, and in one occasion he goes alone to the elven ruins. So, don't make it sound like the poor dialogue choices that were given to us validate your perception that Triss wasn't manipulative. Because if CDPR were straight honest they would have given every player different choices, included the one where you can ask Triss about Yennefer even if your Geralt doesn't indulge in kinky sex with that amoeba.
As for the part where Geralt postponed his search for Yen in favour of searching for Letho, ah, well, excuse me if Letho is the antagonist in the main quest of AoK, while Yen is just a shadow that "flees come the morning".
Hamilton1358;n8089720 said:
There are also the many, many good things Triss does for Geralt in the games, things that completely trump her manipulation imo. She directly saves Geralt's life 6-7 times, she helps witchers get their secrets from Salamandra, she takes Geralt's side against the Lodge during the Loc Muine meeting, she lets herself get tortured, she comes to help with the battle even if Geralt dumps her for Yen, she helps them locate the Lodge members and participates in the final battle. All of that is far more important to me than her being too weak to turn down Geralt.
I don't see how the fact that she helps Geralt does trump her manipulation, at all. After all she's obsessed with him, obsessed to the point that when she realizes (in my playthrough) that Geralt doesn't love her, she leaves to Kovir without caring for Geralt's struggle to find Ciri. It's always been clear both in the novels and in the games that what's important to Triss is the power and the Lodge. It was Yennefer who - unfortunately for me - put aside the grudge and asked Triss to come back for help. Yes, Triss chose to come back, but would've she come back if Yen didn't ask her to? And againg, once Ciri is safe and sound in Novigrad who is the person who stays "behind the curtain" to try to control Ciri with the Lodge? Yes, Triss. Excuse me if I believe that Triss' help was because her obsession over Geralt and because of the chance to manipulate/control Ciri with Philippa.
Hamilton1358;n8089720 said:
About Yen, she is the first one to hold Geralt responsible and doesn't see him as Triss' victim and I fully agree with her. As far as the kiss I had no problem with it. Yen is not someone who lets her emotions control her, but at that time, seeing Ciri safe after so many years it's understandable that she lost control. I don't think she was trying to hurt Triss, that moment was all about Ciri imo.
To make things clear, I've never stated that Geralt is a victim of Triss. I'm stating that unfortunately for those who would have loved to see specific characters treated better during the game, CDPR decided to force Triss into us, up to the point that any decision you make to go against the unwritten rule that not so subtley says that Triss "is the right choice" is "punished" with remarks of disdain or forced reactions of guilt (e.g. when Geralts dumps Triss and Dijkstra is vocally dissatisfied with Geralt's decision).
What I'm asking is for the chance to tell Triss to just go away without indulging in embarassed, out of character (form MY Geralt) scenes where Geralt feels unnaturally and senselessly guilty for "dumping" someone he already dumped in The Witcher 2.
Corewolf;n8089740 said:
Yeah, but then when she somehow finds out he gains his memory back at the end of 2. She sends him a letter with a PS that says "I totally still have that stuffed unicorn" knowing that Geralt would basically associate it with all the banging they did on it.
So... Still having not talked to him since he regained his memory... she jumps right into "Meet me in White Orchard quickly... Oh by the way unicorn sex"
That's a bit... odd. Especially if she had the thought at all that he hadn't lost his memory. Pretty sure she knew he was Amnesiac the whole time he was with Triss
True, that sounded so forced and wrong to me, as if any of the events in The Witcher 1 and in AoK never took place.... which honestly is what happened since many events and decision that would have affected the Northern Realms didn't change a thing in Wild Hunt.
To start a relationship with Triss, Geralt has to actively pursue her and accomplish several "tasks". The romance was designed in such a way that giving Alvin to either her or Shani played an important role in the overall decision between them. Was it the best way to approach it? Maybe not. You are right however about that sex scene, but there is a lot more to Triss' romance in the first game to actually reach the point of Geralt and Triss "officially" being together. They even make plans for retirement by the end of the game in that case.
About TW2 start, I can agree that it maybe wasn't the best decision and I am always in favor of respecting player choice. I guess you can view it as meaningless sex.
eloise;n8091050 said:
She tries to "mention some things from his past" and yet CD PR gave us no chance to actually delve into his past. Again, CDPR forcing Triss on us setting Yen aside. I don't remember Geralt telling Regis that Triss helped him regain his memory, probably those dialogue lines depend on the choice the player has made, thus, if you choose Triss you get those dialogues, if not... well, not.
Well, TW1 was designed in such a way that Yen and Ciri weren't meant to be part of the story for reasons known only to CDPR. I'm assuming the amnesia subplot was chosen as a way for CDPR to try to separate from the books and make their own unique story while still giving nods to the books here and there.
It was a design choice but now only Triss takes the blame for it. Geralt never asks Triss explicit questions about his past and the first time he does, she tells him everything. It would be far worse if he asked her and she lied to his face and invented stuff that never happened. Dandelion does exactly that, but no one cares about him. There are even instances where Geralt asks Dandelion about his death and Dandelion twists facts and doesn't mention Yen or Ciri, but instead mentions people that weren't even there or alive http://imgur.com/Lmt9M0q Also, none of the witchers say a word about Yen or even Ciri, which is even more shocking considering she lived with them and them knowing better than most how much Ciri means to Geralt. It would make sense to use a man's daughter as something that can bring out strong emotions or memories.
I think the Regis line is there regardless, I think I saw it on my Yen playthrough too, but it is missable if you choose different dialogue options http://imgur.com/RP3W0QP
eloise;n8091050 said:
included the one where you can ask Triss about Yennefer even if your Geralt doesn't indulge in kinky sex with that amoeba.
If I'm not mistaken, you can actually invite Triss to tag along, not give her the Rose, not propose a bath and still get the dialogue where she offers to help find Yen.
eloise;n8091050 said:
I don't see how the fact that she helps Geralt does trump her manipulation
I am saying that in the context of Geralt not being able to forgive Triss for using him in the first two games. Considering how much she helped him and other people close to him and the fact that he is only alive thanks to her should play a factor. And from the story perspective he was a willing participant in his relationship with Triss, so I'm sure he would take some responsibility too. After all, he does it in the BoE, when he turns down Triss' desperate attempts to be with him. And imo her manipulation is greatly overblown, I'm not saying she was completely honest, far from that, but I don't see her actions nowhere near as bad if we also take Geralt's behavior and the role he played in their romance into consideration as well as the fact that Geralt's memories returned just the way Triss said they will.
And as far as Triss and the Lodge is concerned, given the chance Triss stands with Geralt against against the Lodge at Loc Muine in TW2, proving where her loyalty stands, but even if you don't go for that outcome, she clearly cuts ties to them in the third game. If you bring Philippa's crystal to her, you can see that Phil doesn't count on her and Triss herself says how she has no plans of ever joining them again. And there is absolutely nothing in the games that suggest that Triss has any evil plans for controlling Ciri. In fact the only woman Ciri does mention having plans for her is Yennefer(which I think was stupid since Yen would do anything for Ciri). Those are Philippa's plans and Triss is done supporting her. Also, if you get the Triss ending she talks about the political situation in Kovir and her leading the mages and it's clear that things are very peaceful and focused on other things.
So imo, Triss has no bad intentions or personal gain when she decides to come to KM to help, and her having a life and ambitions outside of Geralt isn't a bad thing. It would be selfish for him to ask her to drop everything she worked so hard for and just tag along in his search for Ciri. What would she do anyway? Geralt doesn't need her by his side at all times and when he actually did need her for help she comes through.
She risks her life, comes up with a bold plan and lets herself get tortured for info about Dandelion and Ciri, she comes up with a plan to use Dudu as Menge and free Dandelion, she comes to KM when asked, saves Ciri's life and helps her throughout the battle, she helps locate Philippa, she participates in the final battle. Triss has done more than enough for Ciri and I can't really agree about her not caring or being selfish for wanting to help the mages too.
eloise;n8091050 said:
To make things clear, I've never stated that Geralt is a victim of Triss. I'm stating that unfortunately for those who would have loved to see specific characters treated better during the game, CDPR decided to force Triss into us, up to the point that any decision you make to go against the unwritten rule that not so subtley says that Triss "is the right choice" is "punished" with remarks of disdain or forced reactions of guilt (e.g. when Geralts dumps Triss and Dijkstra is vocally dissatisfied with Geralt's decision). What I'm asking is for the chance to tell Triss to just go away without indulging in embarassed, out of character (form MY Geralt) scenes where Geralt feels unnaturally and senselessly guilty for "dumping" someone he already dumped in The Witcher 2.
I can't really agree about forcing Triss in TW3 though, if anything I felt like Yen was being pushed on me more, even when I have already chosen Triss. There are bound to be moments when Geralt doesn't act just the way each player would have wanted, but what is important is that there is a choice. You can dump or choose either in the end. I do think that having more dialogue options to address the events from the previous games would have been nice and I wouldn't mind being able to either scold or forgive Triss.
I also don't think Yen was treated badly, sure, random people don't seem to like her, but imo that is part of her characterization, she is not a generally likable person to those who only know her superficially and Yen herself doesn't much care about maintaining a courteous front if it's not absolutely necessary, like with Emhyr. She has a clear mission of finding and helping Ciri, she is full of confidence and acts trusting herself above anyone else to do what's best for her daughter and not caring if it offends someone. Where Yen does shine is through her interactions with the people she cares about. The love and deep understanding she shares with Geralt and the determination she shows in doing everything in her power for Ciri. Their hug scene at KM is an extremely powerful moment. She also got a ballad, she plays a vital role in the story, she has great banters and scenes with Geralt...I think CDPR did a good job with her.
Their romance happens on his initiative, he is the one that goes out of his way to seduce Triss, who even acts reluctant and is hesitant to start a relationship with Geralt
Most people who refer to Geralt as a victim of Triss' seduction are referring to events in the books, where even though she knew about issues between him and Yen, who was like her sister, she worked rather hard to seduce Geralt and get him into bed... which then later makes their friendship super awkward when she comes to Kaer Morhen to help with Ciri
In regards to Geralt being a forgiving person, eh... since it's a RPG we're talking about, let the player choose if their Geralt is unforgiving or not. In the books he's pretty vengeful, isn't he? Or at least give me the chance to resolve this situation one way or the other.
It may be an RPG, but you are only given options that the writers of the game thought the character could possibly choose. And how they imagine his character obviously cannot meet the different expectations of all players. If they already decided for you that he forgives, then there is not much that can be done about that. Even in TW2 he does not make much of a deal of it after he first finds out about Yennefer at the end of the prologue.
eloise;n8091050 said:
Did it really happen on his initiative? It's been a while since I played the Witcher 1 and 2 but I never, and I mean NEVER, let Geralt indulge on Triss unless I was forced to. And I was force into Triss twice. First time in The Witcher 1 when despite the fact Geralt was romancing Shani, I chose to take Alvin to Triss because she was a sorceress and way more suitable to protect him and then she literally throws Geralt on the bed and then that famous card appeared. I didn't have any control on this episode. So, again, CDPR pushing Triss on the player.
Second time Geralt (and I) was forced into Triss, no need to go into many details: the beginning of The Witcher 2.
The main choice that decides between a Triss or Shani romance in TW1 is who you give Alvin to. If you took Alvin to Triss, that was your choice, it was not forced by the game. One might say that a relationship with Triss is "forced" on the player at the beginning of the second game, but it is not the same as it being forced on Geralt's character. Quoting from the game:
Some of you have surely heard the rumors about the relationship that bloomed between the young medic Shani and Geralt. I hasten to inform you that they are all true. I consider Shani a friend both true and old. We go back to the days when I lectured in minstrelsy at Oxenfurt University, and I was the one to introduce her to the witcher. Upon Geralt's return to the living, they were reunited in Vizima, where the red-haired medic competed with Triss Merigold for Geralt's heart. She emerged victorious from the rivalry. The flame of their romance blazed bright, but it burned out quickly. Though a very young woman, Shani proved more mature than the witcher, who had always found relationships puzzling and difficult. Geralt would dodge his obligations towards her, preferring instead to pursue the missions King Foltest assigned him. The medic quickly realized this flour would yield no bread. She had a serious conversation with the witcher, and they parted amicably. Shani accepted an offer to teach at Oxenfurt and left for that city, whereas Geralt followed Foltest to the lands of the La Valettes. After splitting with Shani, the witcher needed comforting and quickly found solace in Triss Merigold's arms.
It is ultimately no different from how the books "force" Yennefer on him, in the games, you have choices over some story paths, but much of their content is still pre-written and linear. There is also no choice over Geralt and Triss breaking up between TW2 and TW3, even if the player never makes any decisions in the first two games that would point in that direction, so at least I do not see the alleged bias on CDPR's part.
I don't remember Geralt telling Regis that Triss helped him regain his memory, probably those dialogue lines depend on the choice the player has made, thus, if you choose Triss you get those dialogues, if not... well, not.
This is the dialogue in question, it does not depend on any previously made choices:
Geralt: What's regeneration like?
Geralt: Always fascinated me the way vampires can regenerate. A hand growing back is one thing, but Dettlaff recreating you out of a wet smear? Something else entirely.
Regis: A difficult and laborious process, but one that's possible - as my presence proves. But, but, but… I've heard you too had quite the adventure - they say you lost your memory.
Geralt: For a bit. but Triss helped me get it back. Actually pretty damn lucky I only had amnesia.
...
So, don't make it sound like the poor dialogue choices that were given to us validate your perception that Triss wasn't manipulative. Because if CDPR were straight honest they would have given every player different choices, included the one where you can ask Triss about Yennefer even if your Geralt doesn't indulge in kinky sex with that amoeba.
It is only Geralt's perception that matters, as imagined by CDPR. You are of course entitled to hate Triss, but he views her at least as a friend, and that is just how the games are written, regardless of any romance choices (although he does always have a relationship with Triss after the first game until the end of the prologue of the second one). He can by all means choose to return to Yennefer but still remain on good terms with Triss.
I don't see how the fact that she helps Geralt does trump her manipulation, at all.
Overall, her help in the games outweighs the "manipulation" (which was mostly of the passive nature, rather than outright lying). Or, in other words, would Geralt's fate have been better if she simply told him to go away right at the beginning of the first game? Would he have found Yennefer and Ciri sooner? It is not like anyone else was particularly helpful to him in this regard, either.
And againg, once Ciri is safe and sound in Novigrad who is the person who stays "behind the curtain" to try to control Ciri with the Lodge? Yes, Triss.
Can you show some evidence of this? As far as I know, by that time Triss is no longer associated with the Lodge in any way, nor do I recall any plans on her part in games to control Ciri. In fact, she returns to Novigrad because it is Yennefer's idea after the battle of Kaer Morhen to contact the few remaining members of the Lodge to help defeating the Wild Hunt.
To make things clear, I've never stated that Geralt is a victim of Triss. I'm stating that unfortunately for those who would have loved to see specific characters treated better during the game, CDPR decided to force Triss into us, up to the point that any decision you make to go against the unwritten rule that not so subtley says that Triss "is the right choice" is "punished" with remarks of disdain or forced reactions of guilt (e.g. when Geralts dumps Triss and Dijkstra is vocally dissatisfied with Geralt's decision).
I do not see any evidence that CDPR treated Yennefer "badly" in the game (on the contrary, her content in TW3 is very well made in my opinion, it even won awards), nor of any unwritten rule that says that Triss is the right choice. As it often happens with adaptations that do not just retell the same story, fans of the originals can be disappointed that the result is not like what they have imagined. People who have played the previous games but did not read the books also complained about bias towards Yennefer. In the end, some characters were changed to various extents, and some things could have been written and implemented better (which goes both ways), but overall I do not think there is a real bias.
By the way, Dijkstra being unsatisfied with Geralt not leaving to Kovir with Triss is because of his political plans, not everything in the game revolves around advertising romance choices. The same applies to Lambert and other characters, they do not like Yennefer, but it is not like her personality as visible to them (not you or Geralt) is particularly likable. The game just "simulates" the characters with all of their own biases and agendas, and again this goes both ways.
Hamilton1358;n8091360 said:
About TW2 start, I can agree that it maybe wasn't the best decision and I am always in favor of respecting player choice. I guess you can view it as meaningless sex.
It is actually not meaningless, it establishes in the overall narrative of the game trilogy that at some point Geralt is in a relationship with Triss. This plays a role in the final game, it would have been much harder to write the interactions with the main characters without having a known history of relationships. At the time when AoK was made, I think it was already decided that the next game after that will be the final one in Geralt's story, and that there will be a choice between Triss and Yennefer.
If I'm not mistaken, you can actually invite Triss to tag along, not give her the Rose, not propose a bath and still get the dialogue where she offers to help find Yen.
Yes, I need to check again to be sure, but if I recall correctly that dialogue is missed only if you decide to go to the elven ruins alone.
I am saying that in the context of Geralt not being able to forgive Triss for using him in the first two games. Considering how much she helped him and other people close to him and the fact that he is only alive thanks to her should play a factor. And from the story perspective he was a willing participant in his relationship with Triss, so I'm sure he would take some responsibility too. After all, he does it in the BoE, when he turns down Triss' desperate attempts to be with him. And imo her manipulation is greatly overblown, I'm not saying she was completely honest, far from that, but I don't see her actions nowhere near as bad if we also take Geralt's behavior and the role he played in their romance into consideration as well as the fact that Geralt's memories returned just the way Triss said they will.
I agree, and, as I mentioned above, it is often down to one's expectations based on the novels or other previous knowledge. It is also easy to overlook events that happen off-screen between the games, the player is not given the chance to experience them, but Geralt's character still does.
I can't really agree about forcing Triss in TW3 though, if anything I felt like Yen was being pushed on me more, even when I have already chosen Triss. There are bound to be moments when Geralt doesn't act just the way each player would have wanted, but what is important is that there is a choice. You can dump or choose either in the end. I do think that having more dialogue options to address the events from the previous games would have been nice and I wouldn't mind being able to either scold or forgive Triss.
I think the lack of dialogue regarding the events of the previous games has more to do with Wild Hunt being aimed at new players than any kind of "romance bias". Other events and choices got the same treatment. Nevertheless, what is most important is still shown to the player: that they have already discussed everything after Loc Muinne, broke up after a week or two (even if no details are provided, not even like the Shani journal entry quoted above) but their feelings are not quite gone so a reunion is still possible, and that Geralt does not really hold a grudge for the past events. And one can also see those in the interaction throughout her Novigrad quest line. Criticism of the game is often related to the lack of exposition, but it does usually show (rather than tell in detail) what really matters, even if it is only a brief scene or a few lines of dialogue.
I think people who read the books must accept Triss is the true Geralt's romance in the Witcher game series. Yennefer was too late and CDPR didn't help her cause either.
I think people who read the books must accept Triss is the true Geralt's romance in the Witcher game series. Yennefer was too late and CDPR didn't help her cause either.
I don't think the topic is about whether Triss or Yennefer is his 'true' romance in the games. Personally, I don't think most people would agree with you (also with the new comic)--I still remember when there was a 500+ page thread wanting more interaction with Triss in the game. The thread is about how CDPR didn't do that well in their portrayl of Yennefer and her interactions with Geralt and Ciri (and other characters). It can most likely be infered that Yennefer's lack of a mother/daughter interaction with Ciri is due to the Triss romance.
Regarding Triss, I never did like how her character was handled in the games; her characterization wasn't that unique and her flaws were glossed over and never really adressed.
Most people who refer to Geralt as a victim of Triss' seduction are referring to events in the books, where even though she knew about issues between him and Yen, who was like her sister, she worked rather hard to seduce Geralt and get him into bed... which then later makes their friendship super awkward when she comes to Kaer Morhen to help with Ciri
With that I disagree even more. Geralt himself takes responsibility for what has happened between him and Triss in the books and doesn't see himself as a victim, so why would I see him as one?
I am not among those who interpret the little magic thing as him getting taken advantage off. Sometimes I'm surprised how little credit people give to Geralt. There is nothing that suggests he feels that Triss used him or that he didn't consent. He invites her to KM, he trusts her with Ciri, he diligently takes care of her when she gets sick and he even shows remarkable patience in turning down her desperate attempts to be with him during the whole ordeal, when even Ciri and Yarpen got annoyed by her behavior. But most important of all he takes responsibility for what has happened between him and Triss. He regrets it, but he takes responsibility and doesn't blame Triss for anything.
'And you, Triss?'
'What about me?' She swallowed with difficulty. 'I'm not important. I let you down. I let you
down ... in everything. I was . . . I was your mistake. Nothing more.'
'Mistakes,' he said with effort, 'are also important to me. I don't cross them out of my life, or
memory. And I never blame others for them. You are important to me, Triss, and always will
be. You never let me down. Never. Believe me.'
She remained silent a long while.
sv3672;n8096610 said:
It is actually not meaningless, it establishes in the overall narrative of the game trilogy that at some point Geralt is in a relationship with Triss. This plays a role in the final game, it would have been much harder to write the interactions with the main characters without having a known history of relationships. At the time when AoK was made, I think it was already decided that the next game after that will be the final one in Geralt's story, and that there will be a choice between Triss and Yennefer.
Yeah, but I think it's up to the player to decide the extent to which the relationship was serious. Someone who actively pursues Triss throughout the games will have a different experience than someone who avoids her completely any chance they get and only have a few unavoidable scenes with her. It can be said that for their Geralt it didn't mean that much based on their choices.
sv3672;n8096610 said:
I think the lack of dialogue regarding the events of the previous games has more to do with Wild Hunt being aimed at new players than any kind of "romance bias".
I agree. The game needed to be standalone due to it targeting a whole new market. There is just enough context to get the idea of what happened, but still, I feel there should have been more acknowledgment of the events from the first two games. It is one of the few complaints I have about the game.
fgambler;n8098100 said:
I think people who read the books must accept Triss is the true Geralt's romance in the Witcher game series. Yennefer was too late and CDPR didn't help her cause either.
I don't think that is the case at all. Sure, Triss gets more screen time when we look at the trilogy as a whole, but Yen gets more content in the last game. Both options are presented well enough and both offer something unique. People are free to decide who is the true romance for their Geralt.
Samiel27;n8098470 said:
It can most likely be infered that Yennefer's lack of a mother/daughter interaction with Ciri is due to the Triss romance.
I don't agree about the lack of Yen/Ciri interactions is the fault of Triss' romance. If you carefully look at the game, you will see that very few NPC's have developed interactions between them outside of Geralt's perspective. You just don't see NPC's interacting with each other when Geralt is not around. The story is being told from his perspective and that applies to all other characters, Ciri and Yen included.
Samiel27;n8098470 said:
her characterization wasn't that unique and her flaws were glossed over and never really adressed.
Imo, Triss shows the most growth and character development compared to her book version. Her having three games to do that helps and she has a very unique arc where she abandons the Lodge and starts doing her own thing while still maintaining her ideals and the desire to help the mages. She also has a rather unique personality. The arguments I've seen about the lack of originality in her characterization are based on superficial similarities to book Yen, like her wanting to retire with Geralt(why wouldn't she if they're a couple, most people want to spend the rest of their lives with their loved ones, that's hardly unique to Yen) or her having bath sex with Geralt when he also had bath sex with Yen in the books even though the circumstances are completely different.
I do agree that shedding more light to her flaws would have been nice. Triss can come of as too perfect in TW3, especially to the new players who don't know her full backstory and the strength of TW characters often lies in the unique combination of their flaws and virtues or their grey morality.
It was one of the very few requests for content changes that were actually listened to in some way. But there have also been threads demanding more interaction with Yennefer, and all sorts of other content. In the end, none of that really tells who Geralt's "true romance" is in the games, nor do I think there should officially be one, either.
The thread is about how CDPR didn't do that well in their portrayl of Yennefer and her interactions with Geralt and Ciri (and other characters). It can most likely be infered that Yennefer's lack of a mother/daughter interaction with Ciri is due to the Triss romance.
This accusation has specifically been denied by CDPR back in 2015 in those threads that wanted more interaction between Yennefer and Ciri. The game just does not put much emphasis on interaction between NPCs, I do not think removing the Triss romance option would have made a difference here.
I didn't want the Triss romance to have been removed--it's an RPG for a reason, but its most likely that the relationship between Ciri and Yennefer is downplayed due to the Triss romance. Hypothetically, if Ciri calls Yennefer "Mother" or if Yennefer calls Ciri "daughter" (see Stygga Castle) that it would affect the player's romance choice? Even placing romance aside, the relationship between Ciri and Yennefer was always an important aspect of the lore/backstory.
sv3672;n8099580 said:
This accusation has specifically been denied by CDPR back in 2015 in those threads that wanted more interaction between Yennefer and Ciri. The game just does not put much emphasis on interaction between NPCs,
Why is there such an emphasis on the relationship between Vesemir and Ciri? To my knowledge he was never that close to her and never interacted with her other than in Blood of Elves.
Hamilton1358;n8099420 said:
Imo, Triss shows the most growth and character development compared to her book version. Her having three games to do that helps and she has a very unique arc where she abandons the Lodge and starts doing her own thing while still maintaining her ideals and the desire to help the mages. She also has a rather unique personality. The arguments I've seen about the lack of originality in her characterization are based on superficial similarities to book Yen, like her wanting to retire with Geralt(why wouldn't she if they're a couple, most people want to spend the rest of their lives with their loved ones, that's hardly unique to Yen) or her having bath sex with Geralt when he also had bath sex with Yen in the books even though the circumstances are completely different.
I made a reddit post about this and I don't think they're just "superficial similarities" (BOOK SPOILERS BELOW):
In Witcher 1 Triss states that it would be nice if Geralt would settle down and live a normal life:
"A house! Nice dream. You could breed horses and sheep. I'd tend the garden, cook meals. We'd sell what we have to buy copper pots, iron rakes! We'd age with dignity. In the evenings, you'd play bagpipes of your own making as a remedy to my gloom."
Yennefer told Geralt the exact same thing on Thanedd during Time of Contempt:
“A beautiful dream.” Yennefer lightly stroked his arm. “A house. A house built with your own hands and in the house you and me. You would raise horses and sheep, I would take care of the garden, food and Cardaria would weigh the wool that we would take to the market. From the orens that we would be given from the sale of the wool and various fruits of the earth we would buy everything we need, say a little copper kettle and an iron rake.. We could grow old with dignity. And if I get bored at night you would play the bagpipes made with your own hands. Playing the bagpipes, as everyone knows is the best remedy for the blues.
In Witcher 2: Assasin of Kings, Triss pleads with Phlippa to help Geralt:
“At least help me clear the Witcher’s name.” “Triss stop thinking with your vagina and get a hold of yourself.”
It seems this scene was taken from the Tower of Swallows when Yenenfer confronts Philippa and Triss:
I will leave you the information," Yennefer said slowly. “I'll leave you the information on what I've found and what I plan. I’ll leave a trail you can follow to her. But not in vain. If you will not facilitate my exoneration in the eyes of the world, then to hell with you and with the world. But at least grant me exoneration in the eyes of the witcher.” “It is not in the interest of the Lodge for him to furiously attempt to avenge you. If he despises you, he will not attempt to take revenge. By the way, he's probably already dead or will die any day now.’ “The information,” Yennefer said dully, “for his life. Save him, Philippa.” “No, Yennefer.”
The scene when Triss has her nails pulled out is really similar to when Yennefer is strapped to a chair and is tortured with thumbscrews by Vilgefortz (Lady of the Lake):
"Sometimes,” said Vilgefortz, bent over her, “there are stubborn situations in which magic, potions, and narcotics simply cannot substitute good old, classic pain. Do not make me do so. Locations.” “Go to hell, Vilgefortz!” “Pull the screws, Rience. Slowly.”
When Geralt rescues Triss from the Nilfgardians at Loc Muinne in Assassin of Kings, it bears a similar resemblance to the rescue at Stygga Castle.
In the novels, Yennefer seems to be willing to offer aid those who are persecuted or need medical help
“You have already paid your interest,” the dwarf raised his head, “for the whole Giancardi family, Yennefer, during the pogrom in Vengerberg. Let's not talk about it anymore.
Yennefer jumped out immediately, sank to her knees, and pressed her fingers against the abdomen of the woman. She shouted a spell to suppress the spasms and convulsions, and to strongly secure the tissue of the uterus and placenta together against the force that threatened to tear them apart. For safety, she laid a soothing spell on the child, whose legs she could feel kicking under her hands.
Even the scene between Triss and Geralt in the baths of the Elven ruins (Witcher 2) was influenced by Geralt and Yennefer in Lady of the Lake:
She pulled her shirt over her head and jumped into the tub, splashing the water. “Well, Geralt? Why are you standing like a statue?” “Because I had forgotten how beautiful you are.” “You’re very forgetful. Now, get in the water.” When he sat down beside her, she immediately threw her arms around his neck. He kissed her, stroking her waist above the water and under it.
Yeah, but I think it's up to the player to decide the extent to which the relationship was serious. Someone who actively pursues Triss throughout the games will have a different experience than someone who avoids her completely any chance they get and only have a few unavoidable scenes with her. It can be said that for their Geralt it didn't mean that much based on their choices.
Foltest: You saved my life again.
Foltest: Ask what you will of me, witcher - within reason, of course.
Geralt: I need to leave, Sire.
Geralt: I'd like Triss Merigold to come with me. If she wants…
Foltest: Are you blind? She's enamored with you.
Foltest: You may leave and none shall stop you. You have my word.
But from the beginning of Chapter 1 in Flotsam, the player is indeed given choice.
I don't think that is the case at all. Sure, Triss gets more screen time when we look at the trilogy as a whole, but Yen gets more content in the last game. Both options are presented well enough and both offer something unique. People are free to decide who is the true romance for their Geralt.
Perhaps an interesting bit of information: they have almost exactly the same amount of content if we count only the two newer games which are on the RED engine and feature a more consistent characterization of Triss.
Imo, Triss shows the most growth and character development compared to her book version. Her having three games to do that helps and she has a very unique arc where she abandons the Lodge and starts doing her own thing while still maintaining her ideals and the desire to help the mages. She also has a rather unique personality. The arguments I've seen about the lack of originality in her characterization are based on superficial similarities to book Yen, like her wanting to retire with Geralt(why wouldn't she if they're a couple, most people want to spend the rest of their lives with their loved ones, that's hardly unique to Yen) or her having bath sex with Geralt when he also had bath sex with Yen in the books even though the circumstances are completely different.
I agree in general, while - as noted above - especially the first game does feature some oddities, I think from AoK onward there was a more clear concept of the character and her growth. It is difficult to portray a character in a consistent way between multiple games when they are written and directed by different people over more than a decade, but overall I like what CDPR did with their trilogy.
I do agree that shedding more light to her flaws would have been nice. Triss can come of as too perfect in TW3, especially to the new players who don't know her full backstory and the strength of TW characters often lies in the unique combination of their flaws and virtues or their grey morality.
I think TW3 does still show her flaws to those who pay attention, but trying to overcome them is in my opinion also a part of the intended development of the character.
Hypothetically, if Ciri calls Yennefer "Mother" or if Yennefer calls Ciri "daughter" (see Stygga Castle) that it would affect the player's romance choice? Even placing romance aside, the relationship between Ciri and Yennefer was always an important aspect of the lore/backstory.
Yennefer did call Ciri daughter but in Polish version of the game. I don't know why they change that in English version. In Polish version she said :"Córeczko, ależ ty wypiękniałaś" you can translate that "Daughter, you have grown beautiful".
Why is there such an emphasis on the relationship between Vesemir and Ciri? To my knowledge he was never that close to her and never interacted with her other than in Blood of Elves.
Probably for a fact that later on Vesemir dies so they wanna for player to feel really a lost of him. They can achieve that for example if they show how Ciri cares for him.
