I think retail games market is dwindling everywhere, and will be eventually gone altogether with pure digital channels remaining the only source.
Gilrond said:
I agree. I think Microsoft and Sony will try to make their games purely digital as soon as they think they can get away with it, and once that happens I don't see much point for game stores to exist anymore since they don't make too much money on hardware sales compared to games (especially used games).
CostinMoroianu said:
One more thing I'd like to ask in reply to this.
You say piracy committed by a single user for his own personal use isn't theft or a crime.
Then you say you do consider disc sellers to be criminals. Why is that? What's the difference? It is because disc sellers make money off their pirated software?
Then how about people who pirate video-games and then make money off those pirated games in other ways, for example through YouTube?
WardDragon said:
... but they are not taking away consumer rights. That is a fallacy. For starters, you have a right not to buy. I don't like DRM any more than you, and so, if something has DRM in it, I don't buy it. That's that. If I buy a license for any piece of software and it doesn't work, I don't go to the internet looking for crack, I return the thing. "But all sales are final, no exchange, returns"... well, you probably knew that before you hit the pay for my order button, but still you went ahead and bought the thing anyway.
And we are not talking about medical care or water here.. we are talking about entertainment, a luxury item, if you will.
Csszr said:
They'll be simply distributors (like GOG is now), since there won't be a need to produce (publish) physical media. I personally see no problem with that, since Internet is becoming practically ubiquitous, and buying games through it is a natural thing to expect. The only concern here that these distribution channels shouldn't be polluted with DRM, but there is hope with GOG setting the trend.
SystemShock7 said:
What do you think for example about buying an e-book which you need to break (strip of DRM, which is essentially the same as getting a pirated copy) since otherwise you wouldn't be able to access it on your device at all? Or for example to prevent it from being pulled away altogether, as happened in the past with different digital distributors.
Well, I can only say, that I still don't like the idea of just having a digital copy of my game. Of course it has benefits, but I want to own my games and put them in a shelf and not only have a temporary right to play it. (I know, in theory it say infinite, but who knows, maybe in a couple of years steam has to shut down and all your games will be lost.) Having less avaliability in shops and less games which are non digital just means for me, that I buy less games. When I am interested in a game, but it is steam only or worse, then I just won't buy it. Instead I usually watch a let's play of it. Well in my case DRM = lost sale. But I guess I am in the minority and probably a remnant with my preferrance. (Same goes for books: I rather buy them paper back than read an e-book, for the main reason of being able to put them in my shelf.)
Well it will be a long time until the retail market dies... And most likely what we will be left with are online stores where you can order a retail disc and after even more time it will be mostly digital and i dont look forward to it... I cant trust them (the gaming industry in general) to play by the rules... Not that it mater that much... Most people seem to be just happy to buy games that they know will be bad just to then complain and say "this is the last time i buy a game from X"... "NEW TRAILER"
There’s nothing worse than being a paying customer, and having to jump through hoops to get your freshly-purchased game working. Well, there’s being sodomised by a rabid elephant while fire-ants nip at your genitals, but that happens only once or twice in your lifetime; while DRM is a regular occurrence. All too often DRM, like your girlfriend’s monthly ovarian operating system reboot, gets in the way of you having a good time. Affirming what we’ve all believed for forever, Super Meat Boy developer Tommy Refenes argues (via Destructoid) that DRM does nothing to stop piracy – but in fact makes it more likely a thing to happen.
Weighing in on EA’s current SimCity DRM woes, the indie developer had this to say:
We could go in to the semantics of piracy for all eternity; is it theft? Can you steal something by making a copy of it, whatever. There’s no real justification for it; but are YOU more or less likely to perpetrate piracy when faced with DRM?
Weighing in on EA’s current SimCity DRM woes, the indie developer had this to say:
“I think I can safely say that Super Meat Boy has been pirated at least 200,000 times. We are closing in on 2 million sales and assuming a 10% piracy to sales ratio does not seem unreasonable.
As a forward thinking developer who exists in the present, I realize and accept that a pirated copy of a digital game does not equate to money being taken out of my pocket. Team Meat shows no loss in our year end totals due to piracy and neither should any other developer.”
Refenes suggests that all that money spent on developing DRM measures is fruitless, and that piracy’s going to happen either way.As a forward thinking developer who exists in the present, I realize and accept that a pirated copy of a digital game does not equate to money being taken out of my pocket. Team Meat shows no loss in our year end totals due to piracy and neither should any other developer.”
“The reality of our current software age is the internet is more efficient at breaking things than companies are at creating them” he continued. “A company will spend massive amounts of money on DRM and the internet will break it in a matter of days in most cases. When the DRM is broken is it worth the money spent to implement it?
Did the week of unbroken DRM for your game gain you any sales from potential pirates due to the inability to pirate at launch? Again, there is no way of telling and as such cannot be used as an accurate justification for spending money.”
Furthermore, he believes that DRM actively encourages the scurvy practice – and that people are far less likely to steal your game if you make it easy to buy, and easy to run.Did the week of unbroken DRM for your game gain you any sales from potential pirates due to the inability to pirate at launch? Again, there is no way of telling and as such cannot be used as an accurate justification for spending money.”
“Unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do to actively stop their game from being pirated,” he explained. “I do believe people are less likely to pirate your software if the software is easy to buy, easy to run, and does what is advertised.
“You can’t force a person to buy your software no more than you can prevent a person from stealing it. People have to WANT to buy your software, people have to WANT to support you.”
"Respect your customers,” concludes Refenes, “and they may in turn respect your efforts enough to purchase your game instead of pirating it."“You can’t force a person to buy your software no more than you can prevent a person from stealing it. People have to WANT to buy your software, people have to WANT to support you.”
We could go in to the semantics of piracy for all eternity; is it theft? Can you steal something by making a copy of it, whatever. There’s no real justification for it; but are YOU more or less likely to perpetrate piracy when faced with DRM?
No reply to previous comments, neither read all of them but screw the MEH PIRACY KILLING SALES
Let's take my case regarding Witcher 2, when it was released, ofc I can't get games on 0day, so pirated the game, one week later bought the game for 40€. Months ago I caught a sale of W2EE on Steam, insta bought it again for 15€ (Steam, since retail..was retail) So I bought the game twice, just because of it's quality, provides story/gameplay/graphics (even through my 2007 rig can't handle it, play on Low) game was worth of buying. And for most of the games I own, same thing (W2 being the only one bought twice lol)
So, it was a lost sale for CDProjekt cause I pirated the game first then bought it twice?
Let's take my case regarding Witcher 2, when it was released, ofc I can't get games on 0day, so pirated the game, one week later bought the game for 40€. Months ago I caught a sale of W2EE on Steam, insta bought it again for 15€ (Steam, since retail..was retail) So I bought the game twice, just because of it's quality, provides story/gameplay/graphics (even through my 2007 rig can't handle it, play on Low) game was worth of buying. And for most of the games I own, same thing (W2 being the only one bought twice lol)
So, it was a lost sale for CDProjekt cause I pirated the game first then bought it twice?
sn00p said:
And you think most pirates are like you?
No my friend, most pirates aren't like you. The vast majority of pirates simply torrent a game because they can.
I won't deny it, I used to be part of that majority as a teen. I had plenty of money. I also had a fast internet connection and a sick gaming PC. I drank, smoked and played video-games. 90% of all my games were pirated games. Why? Well the better question would be: why the hell not? Pirates games are free! Why pay 60 bucks for a game, if you can get it for free just as easily on the interwebz? Saved me 60 bucks which I could instead spend on drinks, cigarettes and marihuana.
I had plenty of friends, who were just like that. Hell, pretty much every single gaming teenager in my highschool was a dirty little pirate like that.
The sad truth is sn00p, that the vast majority of pirates are exactly like how me and my friends were during our teenage years. And that behavior DOES lead to lost sales and it DOES harm the gaming industry.
You think the vast majority of pirates have plenty of money to spend like you did Luc? Seriously?
Put yourself in the shoes of someone living in a country where you have to spent more then 1/10th of your TOTAL income, yes total not disposable but total from which you have to pay bills, food and clothing and then see how it is.
It's very easy to claim all pirates are people who have money to spend but choose not to just because they can. It's however very much inaccurate on a world level.
Put yourself in the shoes of someone living in a country where you have to spent more then 1/10th of your TOTAL income, yes total not disposable but total from which you have to pay bills, food and clothing and then see how it is.
It's very easy to claim all pirates are people who have money to spend but choose not to just because they can. It's however very much inaccurate on a world level.
CostinMoroianu said:
Yes, I KNOW so. The majority of pirates are just kids who pirate it simply because they can, because they have the option. Because it saves them money, which they can then use on other stuff.
You make it sound as if you're entitled yo playing video-games. You're not. Games are a luxury item, nothing more, nothing less.
And don't give me that bullcrap about being too poor to buy video-games. As a teenager I probably made less money than you do now. Yet I still had plenty of money to buy a sick gaming PC, consoles, beer, cigarettes and drugs. And I know for a fact that you too have enough money to buy a sick gaming PC (yours is probably more expensive than mine) and some fancy recording equipment (expensive mic) and other stuff.
And hell, even if you were poor as fuck, it still wouldn't change anything, as games are a luxury item. You don't need them. If you don't have the money to buy them, than too bad, better luck next time.
No, it's only inaccurate in your country perhaps, but it's very accurate on a world level.
Temperatures seem to be getting a little high in here...
Cool down a little please, everyone.
Cool down a little please, everyone.
What world? Africa, Asia, South America? Oh wait you mean the world is only Europe and North America? Could have fooled me.
You are talking about a GLOBAL issue, treat it as such or you are spitting garbage.
And you have been banging on about lost sales of games thanks to piracy, well here's a reality for you: There are no lost sales when the one who pirates a game cannot afford it. Fact.
Argue all you want about luxury items, how is anyone losing a profit if someone who pirates a game cannot afford it?
EDIT:
Dragonbird: I apologize, but when someone throws such accusations I will not take them lightly.
CostinMoroianu said:
Here is the actual reality for you:
Every single pirated game is a lost sale, unless you would buy the same game later anyway, that's the only exception. Not being able to afford a game is only a temporary state. You might not be able to afford a game now, but that doesn't mean you can't afford it later.
I wanted Bioshock Infinite really badly, but I couldn't afford it at release date. According to your logic, I could just have pirated Bioshock Infinite, and it would not have been a lost sale. That's ofcourse complete bullshit. I simply saved up my money, and bought Bioshock Infinite a month later. If I would just have pirated Bioshock Infinite instead, it would have been a lost sale, plain and simple.
So really, the whole "I cannot afford it, therefor it's not a lost sale if I pirate it" is a cheap excuse, nothing more, nothing less.