Pretty much the same here... but somehow (and I think it offers an explanation to what happened behind closed doors) for so long I had trouble understanding what type of game exactly they were trying to showcase. At times I felt like it was a Witcher like game in 1st person with a strong narrative, at times I felt like it was some sort of GTA, at times all the videos I saw were on shooting mechanics and I felt like it was some kind of "The Division" but in 1st person... then they released the videos on the vehicles and I felt like GTA all over again... and then some story elements, so I was ultimately very confused. That's why I didn't order the collector's edition (a first for me since I've bought all of their collectors editions since The Witcher 2). There was something "off putting" in the way they were going back and forth in their advertising.
I think it shows how badly they were struggling internally to even decide what type of game should CP be.
Don't have time. LOL. It's because it's a lie.
BTW notice how it went from "What was IN the demo" to now being "Promises the narrator said". So it's no longer what was showed but something he said.
Still waiting for you to now point out where 90% of what the narrator said isn't in the game.
One other point I LMFAO that people like you ignore the narrator telling us that things change and this is not the final version etc. etc. but then treat comment about other things like it's the word of God.
Both of you need to tone it down before you both get this thread locked.
Or maybe they were actually trying to be a jack of all trades. They just didn't achieve what they set out to do.
Some of the best games we've had took elements of many different genres and managed to put them all together in a great and impressive package.
For me that's part of what next-gen means. Transcending what has been established previously and there are few better ways of doing that than finding ways of implementing different genres into each other in a coherent, better than the sum of it's parts, way.
Or maybe they were actually trying to be a jack of all trades. They just didn't achieve what they set out to do.
Some of the best games we've had took elements of many different genres and managed to put them all together in a great and impressive package.
For me that's part of what next-gen means. Transcending what has been established previously and there are few better ways of doing that than finding ways of implementing different genres into each other in a coherent, better than the sum of it's parts, way.
I don't think that was the problem. Doing a game like this requires everything listed there. You can't make a city without cars. You can't make a RPG without quests. You can't make a future game without guns for conflict. That's all required. The problem is. We've had games get better and better in these areas.
The standards are now at X level. Anything lower, anything cut. You aren't up to standards. The reason why people have these standards. Is because CDPR is not indie. They threw all the money at the game. And they didn't replicate systems and details from past games. Especially when they opened their mouth in saying they'd match things like RDR2. Nothing was stopping them. You hire people who know how to do this. Even hire former R* people to know the process. And than give them TIME. You can't have one or the other.
They want to be a massive company and make big games. But they basically wanted to also act like a indie. And cut corners because of rushing. The only real thing that wasn't needed was the character creator. They could have just locked V to two presets and be done with it. Like Arthur in RDR2. There's examples of companies getting flak at lost features. R* has never brought back the muscle and fat system CJ had in San Andreas. That was stupid and regressive in quality. Pokemon doesn't include all the Pokemon in the game anymore. But they complete all the work in other games. But they refuse to backport them into the games.
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Yes, they can develop most of the show, at least not never.
GTA, Dishonored and Aassassin Creed series proved that most of the function they planned can be worked out. That's why people believe they can made it, with little doubt.
The core difficulty they failed is AI system. I can't believe they failed at this part, incredible.
Function car chase failed because the AI failed to lead the car chase on right way.
Function wanted failed because the AI failed to lead the NCPD find V.
Function which allowed Mantis Blade climb wall failed because enemy spot rudely, they won't reduce view while V is higher, which push the hang useless.
Function jump bullet is weak because they can't make a auto jump system to find the angle while player put the sight on enemy's head through the wall.
Enemy at GTA can find their way right. Although CP2077 have complex building, AC proved that's possible.
Sneak with hack and cyberware such as Mantis Blade is much like Dishonored, you have supernatural ability to do something cool and unusual. But now the sneak system is rude.
There also many system they can do but cut in the end.
One of them is physically connect, because it meant they need special design for every mission.
Resource, time, money, tech, is the key they lack.
I thought that was obviously implied in my post. Maybe not.
Of course, if you take elements from other genres, they have to be at least on par in terms of quality. It's not about making a future with cars, it's about making a future with cars that handle at least as well as what other games have done recently. It's about gunplay handling at least at well as others have done recently. It's about writing that's at least on par with what others have done. And on and on it goes.
I thought that went without saying.
But making it all stick together is a much harder process than it looks like and in order to truly be innovative you have to go a bit farther than just making it all stick together. It has to be greater than the sums of it's part taken individually. Having them work together in a cohesive, coherent and most importantly fun way. That's what I think CDPR set out to do but fell short of.
The sticking together is not the problem. It's the loss in areas that screw this sticking. Basically, like the story. There's gaps and lack of usage of characters. Same goes for the systems. Cars got 4 races and than nothing else. They aren't used in the story. So improvements that would be obvious. Like the HUD map being poor for driving, or the world arrows in the races. isn't available in normal game play, are just overlooked. Because they are rushing in other areas. Each system of the game losses a piece of itself. When they couldn't focus on everything. Due to time or high management incompetence.
The Dev's themselves would be the ones most likely wanting to implement X that a game they played in the past, into CP. But they get a deadline and go. Well, fuck it. This is all you get. I've been there myself. I'm told you have to this visual effect that involves this, this, this, and this. I know how long it will take to make this look real. They give me half the time. I'm going to make bunk and skip all the details I would normally put in. And this is why you get those bad looking CG villians in Justice League.
That's exactly what "cohesive, coherent and fun to play means".
Don't have to someone already did it for me. especially the last sentence. Its actually relevant to most of the negative posts since launch.
It's deeper RPG than Cyberpunk. Which says a lot, because it's nothing special compared to its sequel made by Obsidian
No one ever anticipated this, really... except those pessimists like myself that knew something was wrong when executives or corporate suddenly saw capital in the Cyberpunk 2020 title. They believed that if they could release it this year, perhaps, they might find extra hype and thus income because of iconic timing (again, that stupid Cyberpunk 2020 trademark) and the typical late-year console releases. I just take it in stride at this moment because like anyone else, I am just as heartbroken to have pooled so much hope into something to be the beacon to break us from a terrible year and it instead became more comic relief than escape. A thud rather than an accomplishment.
I don't even care about the bugs, about Delamain bothering me... I love him and I never did his quests solely so I could actually hear and interact with him. Once you hang out with someone, you never see them again in Night City it seems. A city so empty with friendship and the only one at my side often is an AI bugging me about his cars while often actually bugging out. Like Delamain though, everyone dies or they vanish behind the curtain after their acting role has played out. It feels that way with everything; setpieces you experience to excite you momentarily while returning you to long droll walks or bunnyhops across in search for something to happen. Waiting for something dynamic to happen in what was supposed to be a very dynamic, constantly changing city.
As in, the whole pen and paper setting was purposefully built to allow for endless potential stories because of how Night City not only develops but because of how brutal and unforgiving it is. You do not need to write dungeons when the streets are just as bad but in an honest and meaningful way. In terms of plot, Cyberpunk was bleak, terrible, nasty, grimy. It was a setting envisioned early and motivated heavily by 80s cinema and musical style. At night, the city was supposed to fulfill its name only through the violence, corruption, nastiness and evil that runs abroad once darkness settles and the city calms to empty streets. Gangs walk amok, police start turning deadly, Maxtac starts getting calls. At night, Night City is supposed to transform. Corporations were built for war for a reason, because criminals and gangs will easily hack, break, steal and improvise any technology they acquire from heavy funded corpos. "Killed a top Corpo, huh? How are those Kiroshis...? Honestly, would have shot you in the back of the head to take them myself but you're alright. Get out of here before I change my mind, yeah?" Example dialogue from a finished questline, maybe? Nothing has to be so heartfelt, just treat Night City like it is. Stop being emotional where it is unnecessary because it is a city that learned through years and years of violence, pain, suffering, deformation from cybernetics and the amalgamation of corporate control, and through the death of its founder that there is no peace. Corporations will fight, gangs will strive, civilian get robbed, raped, they die; police respond, equipped heavier and heavier each year yet no one protests against the smalltime officers. They look to Maxtac, because nothing ever really needs to be said about a company that can take on literally ANY non-military threat. Devastation, civilian casualties, total destruction. If a criminal broke the code and went too far, there usually was a mark of his death in the streets as a warning. Try to envision what Maxtac or even Adam Smasher would have left behind as a marker.
I can endure cars flying unintentionally (waiting for the intentional variant), T-poses, pop-in loading of characters and textures or entire environmental pieces (Sorry! I did not have the playtesting setup, what a shame!), invisible walls, locked doors... I can take that, as much as it rather annihilates any tension or honest immersion each and every time it happens. What I cannot tolerate is the total lack of systems even working, to this date. Stats still do not stack, they do not seem to work, there are broken perks, there is so much wrong with the gameplay alone that it is a wonder why anyone should even play this. Not because it is a bad game at heart but because it is seriously in an alpha state even upon release.
This was not supposed to come out this year and it showed back when they delayed it a whole year. They must have gotten the news so early in 2020 that it was slated for a release date the same year, after COVID-19. After being forced to work from home and have no proper playtesting environment? There was no other answer to this, really; unlike other large developers with a bigger staff and overall padded funding and stability, they did not have a game plan for something like 2020 happening. Investments, no matter how large, play any role in management other than create stress and I think the workload was impossible even for a dedicated team of top-of-the-market development heroes. Far too big of a project for a four year development cycle and everyone should have known this.
I don't even care about the bugs, about Delamain bothering me... I love him and I never did his quests solely so I could actually hear and interact with him. Once you hang out with someone, you never see them again in Night City it seems. A city so empty with friendship and the only one at my side often is an AI bugging me about his cars while often actually bugging out. Like Delamain though, everyone dies or they vanish behind the curtain after their acting role has played out. It feels that way with everything; setpieces you experience to excite you momentarily while returning you to long droll walks or bunnyhops across in search for something to happen. Waiting for something dynamic to happen in what was supposed to be a very dynamic, constantly changing city.
As in, the whole pen and paper setting was purposefully built to allow for endless potential stories because of how Night City not only develops but because of how brutal and unforgiving it is. You do not need to write dungeons when the streets are just as bad but in an honest and meaningful way. In terms of plot, Cyberpunk was bleak, terrible, nasty, grimy. It was a setting envisioned early and motivated heavily by 80s cinema and musical style. At night, the city was supposed to fulfill its name only through the violence, corruption, nastiness and evil that runs abroad once darkness settles and the city calms to empty streets. Gangs walk amok, police start turning deadly, Maxtac starts getting calls. At night, Night City is supposed to transform. Corporations were built for war for a reason, because criminals and gangs will easily hack, break, steal and improvise any technology they acquire from heavy funded corpos. "Killed a top Corpo, huh? How are those Kiroshis...? Honestly, would have shot you in the back of the head to take them myself but you're alright. Get out of here before I change my mind, yeah?" Example dialogue from a finished questline, maybe? Nothing has to be so heartfelt, just treat Night City like it is. Stop being emotional where it is unnecessary because it is a city that learned through years and years of violence, pain, suffering, deformation from cybernetics and the amalgamation of corporate control, and through the death of its founder that there is no peace. Corporations will fight, gangs will strive, civilian get robbed, raped, they die; police respond, equipped heavier and heavier each year yet no one protests against the smalltime officers. They look to Maxtac, because nothing ever really needs to be said about a company that can take on literally ANY non-military threat. Devastation, civilian casualties, total destruction. If a criminal broke the code and went too far, there usually was a mark of his death in the streets as a warning. Try to envision what Maxtac or even Adam Smasher would have left behind as a marker.
I can endure cars flying unintentionally (waiting for the intentional variant), T-poses, pop-in loading of characters and textures or entire environmental pieces (Sorry! I did not have the playtesting setup, what a shame!), invisible walls, locked doors... I can take that, as much as it rather annihilates any tension or honest immersion each and every time it happens. What I cannot tolerate is the total lack of systems even working, to this date. Stats still do not stack, they do not seem to work, there are broken perks, there is so much wrong with the gameplay alone that it is a wonder why anyone should even play this. Not because it is a bad game at heart but because it is seriously in an alpha state even upon release.
This was not supposed to come out this year and it showed back when they delayed it a whole year. They must have gotten the news so early in 2020 that it was slated for a release date the same year, after COVID-19. After being forced to work from home and have no proper playtesting environment? There was no other answer to this, really; unlike other large developers with a bigger staff and overall padded funding and stability, they did not have a game plan for something like 2020 happening. Investments, no matter how large, play any role in management other than create stress and I think the workload was impossible even for a dedicated team of top-of-the-market development heroes. Far too big of a project for a four year development cycle and everyone should have known this.
Deeper how? Cyberpunk is something like Shakespeare and Freud, written by someone who understand both and that's just one facet of it.
Fairytales can be good can be bad, but this game, it was never supposed to be a fairy tale. It sounds pretty damn desperate to bring something like kotor in this discussion.
Quick hacking is as close to magic we get in this universe and that's a damn good thing.
I am on your side, here. There is no deeper dialogue than that written specifically to target you as a human but moreso, the interactivity and the sensation that you are living in the world at all. I have never felt like someone in a game before V. I have pretended, fascinated myself with actors, heroes from my favorite tales, and so on. Never have I felt really so connected to one person and that is because of the wickedly bitter yet amazing choice to force you to experience it. You have no choice; just like V, you are going to die soon and someday. How does that affect your narrative choice? Some consider this a cop-out, an escape, a reason not to develop some other game they fantasized but there was heart for the story they wanted to produce. The small dog narrative would have suited the setting, frankly. Start off as a pup and bark at the threats above; there should never have, in the honest setting of V, been any interaction with Arasaka. The moment you explain a villain, an artist, or anything; it degrades from its value, its effect. What if you wrote that Arasaka was also a laundry business on the side? You can easily vanish a threat or a sense of tensity with a single moment.
Thinking upon it now, this must have been an orchestrated mental illness upon the entire staff. I regret my hopes and expectations as I would have rather expended that energy when they were ready.
I can see your point but I think they made right call the explore transhumanism and consequences of immortality like this. Say we have hope for North Korea to found some civil rights law someday and that hope relies on fact that people change, unless not other way, they at least die. Now there's sociopath on top who has been hell bent to destroy the US since WW2. I don't think this would'v worked so well without establishing Saburo Arasaka's character to player.
There were a lot of parallels to transhumanism but I frankly ignored it because this is not Deus Ex. Cyberpunk is not supposed to be a setting where we got over the political ties or emotional differences of sticking a cosmetic cybernetic leg on a child to begin with while the director gave us a new tour based on his own self-image. No, Cyberpunk is the awkward and wicked difference from a more established and careful society. That is why Cyberpunk became a setting at all. Take away control, stability, rules, and you will make for utter fun.
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