What would Fix the game for you?

[Krul2k]

From my limited understanding, he/she likes how the All Foods mission is structured with the choice/consequence reward that happens and feels that's the only mission with such.

They'd be wrong of course about choice/consequence, maybe not to their liking but just of the top of my head is

Betraying Panam

Getting River killed

Ppl that die in the Endings is a consequence of your choice

Sinnerman

Peralez

And the myriad ways to approach each mission from guns blazing to stealth to lethal and non lethal, each of these are choices and there are consequences no matter how small the dialogue etc.

 

[krisansinisa]

@Krul2k it's he, and yes you are absolutely right, i love how All Foods mission is structured, I love the content in it too, it's one of my favored missions, but what i trully love and respect is the mission structure, it could be any content, that is irrelevant for the concept. I can't be bothered to explain simple things to the other guy anymore, thanks for chipping in.

That mission alone allows player to chose option 1,2,3 with one side, and 4,5,6 with the other side (Militech/Maelstrom) and then in the middle of the mission it lets you chose option 7,8 and 9 ... it's fantastic. And on top of that option 10 or 11 will present itself hours after mission is complete and player forgot all about it.

All other choices are either black or white, betray Panam, don't betray Panam, getting River killed, save River... there is no gray zone, there is no agency. Those choices have immediate consequence and are not any better than siding with Imperials or Stormcloacks in Skyrim, or Railroad vs Bos conflict in Fallout. Whatever you choose, it's always black or white

And in most simple terms, what type of ending you'll get should never be up to player to decide in one simple conversation. That complete sequence on the roof should not be there, it's a lazy design not fit for RPG, because it basically boils down to this:

- You did X here
- You did Y there
- You did Z over here

Alright, here are you choices

- Ending 1 -Available
- Ending 2 - Locked
- Ending 3- Avaialble
- Ending 4 - Available
- Ending 5 - Locked

Please pick one

That's a complete new level of stupid and not how RPG should compile players journey into the ending.
That's also the biggest gripe i had with the game and why in the topic "What would fix the game for you" I'm trying to say that it literally can't be fixed because it will never be an RPG that is advertised to be. It's an action adventure game at best, far from being an RPG, which is a shame as tabletop game is full blown RPG.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

And in most simple terms, what type of ending you'll get should never be up to player to decide in one simple conversation. That complete sequence on the roof should not be there, it's a lazy design not fit for RPG, because it basically boils down to this:

- You did X here
- You did Y there
- You did Z over here

Alright, here are you choices

- Ending 1 -Available
- Ending 2 - Locked
- Ending 3- Avaialble
- Ending 4 - Available
- Ending 5 - Locked

Please pick one

That's a complete new level of stupid and not how RPG should compile players journey into the ending.

It don't bother me too much, and it's not "new" at all... One of my favorite game ever use the exact same "trick"... A game named > Mass Effect.
In Mass Effect 2, the ending is mostly affected by team mates side missions (if you help them or not).
In Mass Effect 3, it's the exact same thing than Cyberpunk, the endings are affected by your previous actions/choices and you have to make a choice after one dialogue.
The "idea" behind that, for me > the future is uncertain until you reach a keypoint (the dialogue). And at this point, you have no other choice to make a choice (often a difficult choice). It's different than The Witcher 3, in which when you reach the end, the ending that you will have is already determined (way before by some dialogues/decisions) and there is no longer "choice" and generally no way to change anything.

But Mass Effect, like Cyberpunk are Story Driven/Action-Aventure/RPG, in this order

 

[krisansinisa]

Yeah I finished Mass Effect 1 and 2 and went trough lets say 70% of ME3. Never could force myself to finish ME3 exactly for that reason. One dialog ending.
I am old school CRPG gamer, and one of mine favorite games has to be "X-COM UFO Defense". It's a classic turn based strategy RPG from 1994, yes I'm that old, closely followed by another turn-based CRPG Divinity Original Sin 2 released relatively recently.

I had high hopes for CP to replace them and sit on that throne as the best RPG ever, and I solely based that expectation on CDPRs previous work, particularly The Witcher 3 as they managed to implement all the good CRPG stuff into the modern looking game, alas, it was not meant to be.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

yes I'm that old, closely followed by another turn-based CRPG Divinity Original Sin 2 released relatively recently.

Don't worry, I'm not younger and DOS2 is also one of my favorite game ever (one of the game which was always installed on my drive since the release, even since game preview^^).
But it's very different games and not the type of game that CDPR ever created (and probably never will according to recent announcements).

 

[chadesh]

I already post on this thread once, but the only real thing that would actually fix this game for me is for all the main choices I make would really mean something and have a effect on the outcome of the ending. Not to mention the gigs would of been more integrated into the game and had some small effect on the main quest line.

Nothing you did had any real consequences after the main quest where everyone dies including you.

 

[Krul2k]

Cyberpunk is like Call of Duty in the sense it's not a RPG but has RPG features, CP is more a Action/Adventure with the RPG features.

It a argument that goes on all the time though, even back to Baldurs Gate you had ppl saying it wasn't a RPG an only TT was the true RP, then the same was said for KOTOR an DA:Origins and then ME.

My stance was/is simple, i can RP a char alot more and alot easier without them being voiced, i can still RP a voiced character but not as much but i could RP a COD or BF soldier so that don't say much i guess.

RPG is what you make it these days, developers do so why not you.

Larian though do make the best these days i've played and Obsidian are still doing a no bad job, i enjoyed POE an be looking forward (maybe) to Avowed

Tbh the line between genre's is pretty blurred these days unless your playing Forza :")

Majority i play just seem to be Open World + whatever setting be it fantasy/sci -fi etc, i'd say most ppl just either want the tools and features to create their own story or simply have a good story told to them.

It pretty telling the games i personally go back to are Bethesda games for the freedom and BioWare for the companions/story

 

[krisansinisa]

In my opinion the RPG genre completely lost it's meaning as soon as open world games became popular.
Allow me to explain.

Most developer nowadays blindly follow the trend of taking "elements" from multiple genres and then mix them all together, trying to make the best of all worlds but failing miserably in each of them.

When I hear that game has an "rpg elements" I get shivers. What does that even mean? Is it an RPG, a part of a RPG? Or just one mechanic from an RPG and which one is it? Does it even make sense for it be there?

When that happens, you get skill trees which are mere % increase, black and white or inconsequential choices, like it is the case here, in both Horizon games, Tomb Raider as well and many other "Action games with RPG elements". Ubisoft is probably the biggest offender in this department. Their games are all the same to me. In last few years, they somehow managed to make the same game out of 3 completely different genres, and completely different games.


But I guess that's what is selling the game, after all, they sold it to me on a premise that CP will be an RPG. Once gain, don't let my lack of posts here fool you, I have pre-ordered the CP because I was expecting... no wait... they were advertising the RPG, but what I got were the "elements"...

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I have pre-ordered the CP because I was expecting... no wait... they were advertising the RPG, but what I got were the "elements"...

Just a guess, but I assume you didn't play The Witcher 3 ?
Which was/is advertised as a RPG, recognized as a RPG and more important, praised as a RPG masterpiece... But at the end, it do not contain more "RPG" elements than Cyberpunk.
So CDPR, as Ubisoft or Bethesda, and like we say, in french at least > dogs don't make cats
(It would be like expecting Bethesda to write an outstanding story for Starfield... possible, but very, very unlikely^^)

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Nothing anymore. Waiting for new venues for my RPG needs.

 

[krisansinisa]

Oh I played Witcher 3 back and forth from 2015 to 2017 it was basically the only game I wanted to play during that period and I compared all new games to it. I played Witcher 1 and 2 too, and being a slav myself, not Pole though, I knew about The Witcher way before it was even popularized by video games. Because of it I pre-ordered the Cyberpunk. I don't usually pre-order games but I had no reasons to believe such loved and respected company will use so many dirty marketing tricks to promote their next game.

If I get to compare only these two games, it's an uneven contest with one clear winner, The Witcher 3, starting from the quest structure, epic story full of political intrigues, staggering amount of different enemy archetypes, believable emotional dramas, gray areas, leveling system, character exposure, presentation, skill trees, choices and consequences, world state, lore adaptation.... When you play The Witcher, regardless if you helping random villager to gid rid of the swamp creature, or old lady to find her pan, or fight the wild hunt to help Ciri, no two moments ever felt the same.
Not that Cyberpunk didn't have it's unique moments, afore mentioned All Foods quest was fantastic, the entire sequence with River was great too but you often feel like CP burdens you with the busy work just to fill up the gaps. I never had that feeling playing The Witcher.
This feeling of repetitiveness is particularly prominent in world design. In The Witcher I can clearly distinguish when I am in Velen, Skellige or Toussiant, and not because those are separate maps, but because the complete world around me is different. I can only recognize Kabuki, Jig Jig, Badlands and to some extend Pacifica in CP. Drop me anywhere else in densely populated area of Night City and I'll have no idea in what part of city I am, they mostly all look the same so in turn, traversing Night City can often feel like a chore to get around with the games underwhelming driving mechanics. Cyberpunk 2077 might be many things, some of them even good, but a truly worthy successor to 2015’s Game of the Year that also won 200+ more rewards is definitely not.

The Witcher 3 per se is not an RPG in the core sense and established definition of it, but it is literally miles closer to being an RPG than what Cyberpunk 2077 can ever hope to be.

Maybe the things that would fix the game for me would be different if CDPR didn't told us to expect, and i'll quote the line that aged like a milk on a summer sun "expect nothing less than The Witcher 3".

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Oh I played Witcher 3 back and forth from 2015 to 2017 it was basically the only game I wanted to play during that period and I compared all new games to it. I played Witcher 1 and 2 too, and being a slav myself, not Pole though, I knew about The Witcher way before it was even popularized by video games. Because of it I pre-ordered the Cyberpunk. I don't usually pre-order games but I had no reasons to believe such loved and respected company will use so many dirty marketing tricks to promote their next game.

If I get to compare only these two games, it's an uneven contest with one clear winner, The Witcher 3, starting from the quest structure, epic story full of political intrigues, staggering amount of different enemy archetypes, believable emotional dramas, gray areas, leveling system, character exposure, presentation, skill trees, choices and consequences, world state, lore adaptation.... When you play The Witcher, regardless if you helping random villager to gid rid of the swamp creature, or old lady to find her pan, or fight the wild hunt to help Ciri, no two moments ever felt the same.
Not that Cyberpunk didn't have it's unique moments, afore mentioned All Foods quest was fantastic, the entire sequence with River was great too but you often feel like CP burdens you with the busy work just to fill up the gaps. I never had that feeling playing The Witcher.
This feeling of repetitiveness is particularly prominent in world design. In The Witcher I can clearly distinguish when I am in Velen, Skellige or Toussiant, and not because those are separate maps, but because the complete world around me is different. I can only recognize Kabuki, Jig Jig, Badlands and to some extend Pacifica in CP. Drop me anywhere else in densely populated area of Night City and I'll have no idea in what part of city I am, they mostly all look the same so in turn, traversing Night City can often feel like a chore to get around with the games underwhelming driving mechanics. Cyberpunk 2077 might be many things, some of them even good, but a truly worthy successor to 2015’s Game of the Year that also won 200+ more rewards is definitely not.

The Witcher 3 per se is not an RPG in the core sense and established definition of it, but it is literally miles closer to being an RPG than what Cyberpunk 2077 can ever hope to be.

Maybe the things that would fix the game for me would be different if CDPR didn't told us to expect, and i'll quote the line that aged like a milk on a summer sun "expect nothing less than The Witcher 3".

Honestly, I won't really argue about the story because I think it's subjective. I'm more interested by "Sci-fi" than "medieval fantasy" in general, so I prefer Cyberpunk (story and characters), and by far... On side note, Cyberpunk won a Steam Award for its "Outstanding story", so I assume, about the story at least, most of players enjoyed it. On side note, if I compare the achievements on TW3 and Cyberpunk, there are twice as many players who have finished the main story of Cyberpunk, even if the game is 5 years younger.
Also, it's just a guess, but I think that generally players prefer medieval fantasy rather than sci-fi/post apocalyptic. Which could explain why The Elder Scroll always sold more copies than fallout. Knowing that Bethesda games are very similar. So "interesting/epic" story is quite subjective... For example, for me, Mass Effect have the most epic story ever... but I guess you don't share my statement

Ok, I agree that TW3 offer more "little" choices, but those which really influence the main story are quite limited (for the endings, only few dialogues and decisions change the ending you will have...).

But I'm surprised by some of your points and I disagree, really > Level scalling and skill trees...
I don't know how it can be "better" in TW3, knowing that Cyberpunk offer way more possibilities of builds. Then in both games, perks mostly add % in the exact same way... I means in Cyberpunk, you can go for a street browler with Gorilla arms or a baseball bat (blunt melee), full netrunner, solo with shotgun/HMG, stealth with guns or knives, ninja with katanas or mantis blades, and so on... (The list of builds on Cyberpunk could bit quite long, while in TW3, the list is quite short...)

 

[GrimReaper801]

Maybe the things that would fix the game for me would be different if CDPR didn't told us to expect, and i'll quote the line that aged like a milk on a summer sun "expect nothing less than The Witcher 3".

I'm not going to argue any of what you're saying since it's all highly debatable and most of it is very subjective and I have no real interest in revisiting that conversation again. I'll leave the white knights who can't see anything wrong with the game and the haters who can't see anything right with the game to disagree or agree with you.

There is only the quoted bits that I'll address.

The whole "expect nothing less than The Witcher 3" was only in reference to the amount of post launch DLCs. The free kind we certainly got plenty of and while we may not be getting two expansions, if Phantom Liberty is comparable to Blood and Wine in scope and quality, I personally won't care about that one expansion difference.

 

[Krul2k]

Just a guess, but I assume you didn't play The Witcher 3 ?
Which was/is advertised as a RPG, recognized as a RPG and more important, praised as a RPG masterpiece... But at the end, it do not contain more "RPG" elements than Cyberpunk.
So CDPR, as Ubisoft or Bethesda, and like we say, in french at least > dogs don't make cats
(It would be like expecting Bethesda to write an outstanding story for Starfield... possible, but very, very unlikely^^)

Yeah lol i don't play beth games for story but in saying that the guy that was in charge of narrative for FO4 dlc Far Harbor is narrative lead for Starfield and that dlc was the best narrative in that game, that doesn't say much tbh lol but it was good, so while my expectations for narrative in Starield are still low (not a bad thing since as i said i don't play beth games for it) i am interested to see what he does since Far Harbor had quite a few choice/consequence scenarios i enjoyed

 

[krisansinisa]

Honestly, I won't really argue about the story because I think it's subjective. I'm more interested by "Sci-fi" than "medieval fantasy" in general, so I prefer Cyberpunk (story and characters), and by far... On side note, Cyberpunk won a Steam Award for its "Outstanding story", so I assume, about the story at least, most of players enjoyed it. On side note, if I compare the achievements on TW3 and Cyberpunk, there are twice as many players who have finished the main story of Cyberpunk, even if the game is 5 years younger.
Also, it's just a guess, but I think that generally players prefer medieval fantasy rather than sci-fi/post apocalyptic. Which could explain why The Elder Scroll always sold more copies than fallout. Knowing that Bethesda games are very similar. So "interesting/epic" story is quite subjective... For example, for me, Mass Effect have the most epic story ever... but I guess you don't share my statement

Ok, I agree that TW3 offer more "little" choices, but those which really influence the main story are quite limited (for the endings, only few dialogues and decisions change the ending you will have...).

But I'm surprised by some of your points and I disagree, really > Level scalling and skill trees...
I don't know how it can be "better" in TW3, knowing that Cyberpunk offer way more possibilities of builds. Then in both games, perks mostly add % in the exact same way... I means in Cyberpunk, you can go for a street browler with Gorilla arms or a baseball bat (blunt melee), full netrunner, solo with shotgun/HMG, stealth with guns or knives, ninja with katanas or mantis blades, and so on... (The list of builds on Cyberpunk could bit quite long, while in TW3, the list is quite short...)

You know, the title of this thread is encouraging subjective opinions so they are not a problem to me, I like to hear different takes too, but if you're going to challenge mine opinions you better have a valid argument to challenge them with.

First of all, the number of players who completed the story is irrelevant. It's like saying that Renault Clio is a better car than Ferrari because more people used it. The Witcher 3 main story alone is at least 2 maybe even 3 times longer than that of Cyberpunk 2077.
And that's just main story, where are all the side activities. It also doesn't help that side activities in the Witcher 3 blow out of the water everything Cyberpunk has to offer. Those side quests in The Witcher 3 often feel like main quests due to their quality. Cyberpunk have few of those too, but they are few and far between. Even the busy work in The Witcher 3, those questionmark icons littered through the map are more interesting than NCPD scanner missions, because you'll never know what you'll find. Is it a monster, a bandit camp, a place of power, a hidden treasure? In CP, you know it's always a gang and it becomes boring, very soon. I only use these mission to level up fast.
Bottom line is, TW3 requires much more time and dedication to complete, so the sheer number of players who completed the game is irrelevant in my book.

As for the setting, sci-fi over fantasy, that is also irrelevant, because I can't stress enough that I'm trying to talk about the structure, not substance. Unless of course I'm asked directly to talk about it like it was the case with that one person on previous page where I couldn't explain to him (or her) in this worldly language that I understand and know all outcomes of one particular quest, which now leads me to builds, where your remark could be valid at first, but fail flat when you think about it. Geralt is a well established character, that's why I said TW3 is not the RPG in it's traditional definition. It makes 0 sense for him to be sneaky thief, archer, assassin, or fist punching brawler, or whatever your favorite build could encompass. He is a witcher, with two swords, signs and alchemical knowledge, and that's exactly what you'll get. V, on the other hand, is an unknown quantity and hence more build options are presented, but that is a substance again, not the structure.

You see, in The Witcher 3 you can only use 12 (16 with expansion) skills at the same time. You need to be very careful what you're going to chose as it will significantly impact how you play the game especially on harder difficulties. In my opinion, one only have to play on death march or very hard for builds in CDPR games to make some sense. In any case, your "skills" in TW3 are limited to 12/16 active ones at any given time, and they will either allow Geralt to spin around with sword, drink more potions, have different effect for signs, although arguably there are few of them that are mere % changes too. What you get in Cyberpunk is literally hundreds of active "perks" by the time you finish the game, which sometimes exclude one another or make you so OP that you can easily have over 100% increase in some areas which is silly and game breaking, and sometimes not even working. To this late date, I have the perk which would grant me the 100% chance to get the quickhack from a datamine, but I've yet to get any Also, in the initial version of Cyberpunk there were some perks that you could invest the perk points in to, but they were impossible to execute because there were no game mechanics implemented to support them. That is removed now, but it just shows how silly the entire perk system is and how little thought is put behind the skill trees of CP.

I hope you can see the structure, over substance.

 

[Luc_Grand]

The biggest issue this game has is that aiming is horrendous on console and it's infuriating how easy of a fix this is to make this game 100x better. Aiming and shooting is really bad and hard to control but this game doesn't have separate ads and regular sensitivities. Instead the game has zoom reduction but it only maxes out at 2 and doesn't slow it down nearly enough for how bad the aiming is.

Instead to compensate there are additional options so you can turn regular sensitivity way down but turn up turning bonus and turn down turn bonus delay. This essentially acts as an aim accelerator but it feels really wonky because it still kicks in with a delay and you can't control as it is an aim accelerator.

Guys please, the game is great and I love it but aiming is horrendous and it's so easily solved. Either make ads sensitivity and regular sensitivity separate or since it's already programmed into the game just increase the total zoom sensitivity reduction amount possibly to 10. This is like 90% of the game's problems, playing it is a chore with it's current aiming.

 

[Tiger667]

The biggest issue this game has is that aiming is horrendous on console and it's infuriating how easy of a fix this is to make this game 100x better. Aiming and shooting is really bad and hard to control but this game doesn't have separate ads and regular sensitivities. Instead the game has zoom reduction but it only maxes out at 2 and doesn't slow it down nearly enough for how bad the aiming is.

Instead to compensate there are additional options so you can turn regular sensitivity way down but turn up turning bonus and turn down turn bonus delay. This essentially acts as an aim accelerator but it feels really wonky because it still kicks in with a delay and you can't control as it is an aim accelerator.

Guys please, the game is great and I love it but aiming is horrendous and it's so easily solved. Either make ads sensitivity and regular sensitivity separate or since it's already programmed into the game just increase the total zoom sensitivity reduction amount possibly to 10. This is like 90% of the game's problems, playing it is a chore with it's current aiming.

I have no idea what you're talking about.
I started playing cp2077 at release on my ps4pro without many issues. Now I play it on my ps5. 600ish hours by now.
There is no issue with the aiming on console in the game. None.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I have no idea what you're talking about.
I started playing cp2077 at release on my ps4pro without many issues. Now I play it on my ps5. 600ish hours by now.
There is no issue with the aiming on console in the game. None.

Maybe not on Playstation, but to be fair, the right stick on Xbox (Series X for me), is quite sensitive, maybe a bit too much. But I'm used to it, so it's not a problem. If you take a look on a little video I made, you can see that I very often adjust the aim using the left stick which is less sensitive (without thinking about it^^)

 

[Tiger667]

Maybe not on Playstation, but to be fair, the right stick on Xbox (Series X for me), is quite sensitive, maybe a bit too much. But I'm used to it, so it's not a problem. If you take a look on a little video I made, you can see that I very often adjust the aim using the left stick which is less sensitive (without thinking about it^^)

This then sounds like an Xbox problem rather than a CDPR problem?

 

[LeKill3rFou]

This then sounds like an Xbox problem rather than a CDPR problem?

I could agree, if it was not only on Cyberpunk (and also a little bit the same in TW3 with crossbow or bombs). The right stick is just a bit too sensitive while aiming. No issue with other games. But like I said, not really a problem for me, I'm used to
The same issue with two controllers, original (almost never played with) and razer chroma (bought a month ago)