Why i think this game deserves more praise despite the issues

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Nail on the head.

One crowd, the one I belong in, just wants more of what they have offered us. That's it. Few more story missions, more Panam and Judy, more Goro and resolutions to some of the unresolved side jobs. We see it as an amazing story and single-player experience, hampered only be the fact that it is too short.

The other crowd thought this game was going to be a cyberpunk simulator, very much like the TT experience. CDPR didn't help with the trailers and statements in this regard at all. Because it's not that, they're understandably very annoyed.

The thing the two camps agree on is that there is unresolved bugs and immersion issues that need fixing. But I don't think the people in the latter camp will ever have their vision realised. Maybe they will if this multiplayer thing pans out, like how GTA online has story content. Who knows?

My two cents, anyway.
 
About 2k gave it 5-7. About 7k gave it 1-4. About 18.5k gave it 8-10. It should be obvious where I would be on that scale, but overall 7/10 seems fitting.

Trying to reject all the less than positive scores for being just bugs is as reasonable as me writing off the positive people for being Ass Creed action gamers that wouldn't know a good story if you beat them over the head with it.
7/10 is fitting, I agree. I was merely point out that the distribution we have is very different from a distribution where most of of scores are 7/10.

My nerd side would tell you that the mean is a poor representative of a distribution :)
 
I think this is a bit of a mixed one for me, because I don't think one can solely look at the story without including other aspects of the game.

If we look at the core elements or ideas that the game promote itself on:

- Open world
- RPG
- Action
- Choice matters

To me, it makes me think whether the main story in CP in itself is then all that of a good choice. Because given it is open world and an RPG, a lot of people is driven to these games with the promise of exploration, having more freedom in regards to how you approach the game, collecting gear and developing your character and maybe even achieving something, whether that is to become the owner of a castle or whatever.

At least to me in RPG games spending time on your character, whether that is gear, build or even type of character, like should it be a thief? mage? warrior? etc. obviously in CP you have different types, but it is one of the things that makes RPG games fun for me and think it is for a lot of people.

Comparing the story to, exploration, character development and achieving something, when you are told right from the start, that you are going to die in a few weeks no matter what, it is sort of counterintuitive to that idea of why you should spend time on any of these things.
If you have no future, achieving something like buying cars, new houses, starting relationships is purely done, because they are options in the game for the player. But from the perspective of V it makes absolutely no sense.

Exploration is also simply for the enjoyment for you as player, because you think it's fun, but again makes no sense for V to do.

So the story would have been much better in my opinion in a non open world, linear RPG or adventure game, where you follow V on her/his journey and where you as player don't go into the game expecting to achieve anything, besides what the story specifically tells you to achieve.

There is no doubt that the story is well told, cool characters, very immersive and it is definitely one of the best parts of the game. But the other part is the open world Night city itself, which you as player really want to go explore and find out what is going on behind the next corner, are there some cool shops you have missed or other places? what is that down that alley? Can I get into that building? and so forth. But the game doesn't really offer anything in that regard, if it is not marked on your map, then nothing is going on there. And even if it is marked, for 80% of the stuff it is not really as interesting as you would have hoped, because it is just another gig, a bar where you can't really do anything anyway, a shop that doesn't really sell anything worth buying or yet another car.


Also every time you get close to a gig or just enter a new area, you get a "magical" call from your "big brothers" knowing exactly where you are and give you the specific mission to the location where you are. Or its the area fixer calling you out of nowhere wanting to let you know that they are the quest giver for that area.

To me players are handled like little children, everything is given to you... you need a car? Well here is a few, but you can also buy them.. need a motorcycle, well take Jackie's why not.. Don't know where to get job, well don't worry we will mark them on your map and call you every single time you are even remotely close to discovering something.

To me, things are overly simplified to the point where it sort of ruins replayability and the fun in discovering things for yourself.

First of all, V should track down the fixer in each area, which could be done, either through asking in bars or maybe meeting other mercs, lots of way to make you do this in a more fun way. Mission markers on the map except for active missions should be removed and no more calling you with random jobs whenever you get close to them, the player should call the police woman or go to the police station or wherever it should be possible to pick up jobs and ask if they have something for you. There should be a lot more quests, which are only activated through computers, small notes you find, BDs, running into random people, either in bars, during other missions etc. And some players might never encounter them in a single playthrough, as these should also depend on choices made.

Given that it is an open world, player's should also have the option to achieve something that they themself think is important and that would help defining their version of V.

But when you have a story, constantly reminding you that you have to hurry because you are dying, Silverhand constantly popping in with comments, calls left, right and center of people that want you to do random stuff, which honestly a person which have a few weeks left, should not care about at all, it falls apart a bit, I think.
Why would V care about getting a new car? what the gangs are up to? Getting romantic involved with someone? Only one thing should be on their mind, is it possible to get rid of the chip or not. And it's pretty quickly spoiled in the game, that you will die no matter what, so it just doesn't work to well with the story in that regard.

I honestly think it would work better if you were trying to save a close friend and you were given a very good and nice introduction of why it was important trying to save this person. If they wanted to go this path of someone having to die at all.

In regards to the topics of suicide, violence etc., I don't think that it is a lot more brave than some of the stories or things going on in games like Fallout or some of the others. It is just presented very well, due to the strong characters.

So taking into account that this game is not suppose to be a linear storydriven adventure game, I think the story could have been better for what the game actually stated it would be.

Yes, I agree. I guess the story was told ok but once you remove a purpose for V it nullifies the whole story. When I am playing an RPG, I want to get in and make my character and have my character shaped into whatever I want at least to a point. I get this feeling in the first Act and once Johnny is there it is like my character is snatched from me and I am playing Johnny and it is no longer an RPG for me. I am just following the writer's story to my character's end literally. My immersion is gone at that point. As Mobster100 said, after you have the chip in your head everything else in the game doesn't make sense for V anymore.
 
There are moments in the game that are simply GOAT material
-Sinnerman
-Judy's side quest
-Johnny's side quests and his realization what is important in life
-Panam's side quest
-River ward's side quest
-The heist and how it ends
-Reliving Johnny's memories that you read about them in lores
-Johnny as a companion
-The open world design
-side characters

all of these things really made the game for me ,i just wish the main story ,Gigs and Cyberpsycho encounters are as fleshed out and what bothers me even more is how you cant interact with anything in the world ,all these things are hopefully going to be fixed in the upcoming years i just hope they make a NMS comeback thats why i have not replayed the game yet
 
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Well, the game has a serious main quest and several good side-quest.
A superb city to view.
...






And... it is all it has.

The gameplay mechanic is a pure looter-shooter style I mostly see on free to play.
The immersion is non existant. You can't even sit in a chair or eat on a stand outside of quest!
To make it short, this game is a story with pretty graphics and some scenes of gunfires. Not an open world, not an RPG.
Hell, in a cyberpunk universe, you have numerous possibilities in cyberware, hacking or other SF gimmicks. But the game stay on his rail of "a story-driven shooter game".

I don't get what I was waiting for. I will never have it with CDProject policies. So I will return to Shadowrunner games to have some cyberpunk fun.
 
Writers, artists (illustrators, designers, level artists etc.), animators and audio guys deserve highest praise. I also commend the decision not to downgrade the game and let it look the best it can. The game feels and sounds amazing. Good chunk of stories it tells is amazing. Music is great. The rest? VERY undercooked. I'm absolutely not shocked by the claims the team felt it needed another year or two in the oven.
 
The thing is.

The next generation of role playing is not exactly a 7.1 or 7.2 canditate.

This game is last gen to its core and very limited in the role playing department.


No. This game does not deserve more praise. It needs constructive criticism, so the next game CDPR makes really is a 9/10.

(Btw. Ign really lives up to its legecy)
 
If cyberpunk is a lootshooter.. according to their logic...
Baldursgate is a lootshooter, witcher is a lootshooter
hell every game where enemys drop stuff is a lootshooter

and @I_Willenbrock_I constructive criticism is good...

but what happens here is a witch hunt
some stuff that people criticise are plain lies like some of the missing content, which isnt most time missing just stuff from missions like Vs appartment or the super secret Yucca Town
some stuff that people demand is just plain stupid, like dont wanna play a smoker, females without breast, marry a lesbian as a male
and some stuff is just a naive dream, like full interaction with everything and every npc is different and has its own story

and some stuff just wouldnt work, like heaving a platin trauma team contract.
you get wounded.. Trauma Team flys in kills everyone and dose the mission for you or what?
Trauma Team is in a game without magic the way to save a group of Pen&Paper players
in a game... just repload a save from 2 minutes ago


iam all about fixing bugs...
getting a more fluid traffic
getting a better harder combat experience

i have an fantastic experience with this game on PC, i like it more then RDR2, or Assassinscreed Valhalla... couldnt even play Valhalla for a 2nd time because it was booring
 
Then why have half arsed looter shooter mechanics in the game?

I personally would have like the approach mass effect 2 took with a defined set of weapons that have certain characteristics and individual handling?
Add deep customization to the mix and make the guns stand out in a crowd by visual adjustment.

If you add looter shooter mechanics, you are getting rated based on other looter shooters.
 
like i sayed...
according to this... Baldursgate is a lootshooter type of game...
because there are diffrent weapons with different stats like +1 - +5 and special ability weapon/armors

bah... what a twisted thought
 
There’s a lot to like on a thematic and audiovisual level. That’s for sure.

But the cold fact is that the gameplay just isn’t on par with that.

Weak character systems and frankly uninspired gameplay loop, etc. All of which needs repeating now even more when the implication from up high is that aside from technical issues, the game is top notch.
 
Well, the game has a serious main quest and several good side-quest.
A superb city to view.
...






And... it is all it has.

The gameplay mechanic is a pure looter-shooter style I mostly see on free to play.
The immersion is non existant. You can't even sit in a chair or eat on a stand outside of quest!
To make it short, this game is a story with pretty graphics and some scenes of gunfires. Not an open world, not an RPG.
Hell, in a cyberpunk universe, you have numerous possibilities in cyberware, hacking or other SF gimmicks. But the game stay on his rail of "a story-driven shooter game".

I don't get what I was waiting for. I will never have it with CDProject policies. So I will return to Shadowrunner games to have some cyberpunk fun.

I honestly don't understand why sitting down or eating at a booth defines how good a game is. An rpg does not require sitting mechanics to be good. That will never enter my list of must haves for a good rpg. For 50 years in rpg gaming, no game systems touted their sitting mechanics.

would it be cool if some of those features existed? sure, does it mean the game is not good if it doesn't? for me and many others, not really. When a game can't do everything the mind can come up with, thats when you use your imagination. No game is currently going to recreate life totally.

Also, the game is not on rails. except main story, which is not the majority of the content. You don't need to loot anything, or shoot anything outside main story.
 
The thing is.

The next generation of role playing is not exactly a 7.1 or 7.2 canditate.

This game is last gen to its core and very limited in the role playing department.


No. This game does not deserve more praise. It needs constructive criticism, so the next game CDPR makes really is a 9/10.

(Btw. Ign really lives up to its legecy)

constructive criticism requires that it be constructive. All criticism is not constructive. All critiscm is not warranted, All criticism is not accurate.

this game sucks because it doesn't have food cutscenes is not constructive criticsm

this game should focus more on daily life instead of combat is not constructive criticism


most of the suggestions and complaints wouldn't turn this game into a 9/10 some people want a different game. Many people think their specific desires represent what everybody wants, its not true.
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Then why have half arsed looter shooter mechanics in the game?

I personally would have like the approach mass effect 2 took with a defined set of weapons that have certain characteristics and individual handling?
Add deep customization to the mix and make the guns stand out in a crowd by visual adjustment.

If you add looter shooter mechanics, you are getting rated based on other looter shooters.

what you are defining as a looter shooter is something taken from RPG games from the tabletop Era, and placed in shooting games to give it more RPG elements. What you are talking about is actually less "rpg"
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There’s a lot to like on a thematic and audiovisual level. That’s for sure.

But the cold fact is that the gameplay just isn’t on par with that.

Weak character systems and frankly uninspired gameplay loop, etc. All of which needs repeating now even more when the implication from up high is that aside from technical issues, the game is top notch.

If your goal here is constructive criticism, to improve this game or the next, you ll have to be less vague.

what do you mean by weak character systems

what do you mean by uninspired gameplay loop.

If I am a designer the only thing I learned in this post is that you didnt like the game.
 
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On the contrary, I said it's not perfect and has issues (thus criticisms are warranted) - I said it doesn't deserve "the vitriol and hate". You're' comparing the game to a chef vomiting on a pastry. You're literally talking about spewing vitriol.
Vomit on pastry is about equivalent with releasing a "groundbreaking RPG" single player game that is almost entirely without functional AI. I would argue that the item system also qualifies.

Like I said, when a pastry chef makes something brilliant but then throws up on it, what do you do? Wipe off the vomit and tell him what a masterpiece it is, or tell the chef to try again without the vomit?
 
I would say 1 thing why it didn't deserve more praise.
The lifepath is a joke. A really bad joke.
The main quest is great but the first time that you see your lifepath/dialogue options you feel scammed.
One example that you will find a lot in the game:
-yes
-no, but we are doing this anyway
-(yes in nomad's language )

Anyway the game is a 7.5 for me, but you can't expect more if there is cut content (that they sell to us) everywhere
 
like i sayed...
according to this... Baldursgate is a lootshooter type of game...
because there are diffrent weapons with different stats like +1 - +5 and special ability weapon/armors

bah... what a twisted thought
[...]

Looter games are all about collecting loot. All the time. Drops everywhere, constantly a new decision to make regarding whether you keep or dump your gear. Now try playing Baldur's Gate and see if the same applies. Is a longsword dropped at level 10 any different from a level 7 longsword? Answer is no. At some point enemies might start dropping longswords +1 or even longswords +2 with more regularity, but a longsword +2 dropped in Baldur's Gate 2 at level 12 is exactly what it was in Baldur's Gate 1, when you managed to get one at level 5.
 
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@ArvGuy
rofl..
you got corrected by other guys in that post...
so dont get me wrong..
but if it tells you metacritc on steam a has rating of 86%... yeah sure... steam is telling a lie...

and where in cyberpunk do you need to collect loot?
you can run around buttnaked and kill stuff, you dont need the loot...
you just said what a loot shooter is...
and its not cyberpunk

p.s.
but you definitely need the +5 weapons and armor in baldursgate
and like i did say... thats a stupid point of view... because it lets my stomach turn...
but people here are arguing like this
because there is loot, cyberpunk is a loot shooter... what a joke
 
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1. Main narrative
2. Side quests
3. A handful of gigs
4. Characters
5. World construction (graphical quality, scope, exploration, etc.)
6. Audio (music, even if some of it isn't my personal taste, VO, sound effects, etc.)
7. Parts of the combat if looked at as action combat
8. Lore related items (shards, messages, etc.)

If you asked me to praise parts of this game, there is your list. It's possible I forgot a couple. Those areas are done well. The rest, not so much.
 
If your goal here is constructive criticism, to improve this game or the next, you ll have to be less vague.

what do you mean by weak character systems

what do you mean by uninspired gameplay loop.

If I am a designer the only thing I learned in this post is that you didnt like the game.

I have given plenty of constructive criticism and I don’t find it worth the time to write it down as a wall of text every time I post something. The criticism is always the same and the solutions remain the same, if a designer is reading and interested in what I have to say (and if my other posts haven’t been read, there’s a couple of links in my sig to get a gist of it).
 
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