Worries For Character Creation

[kofeiiniturpa]

Yeah, few times I would see my character in cutscene and I would quickly be quitting the game and starting again and customize my character this time.

It’s a possibility now that cutscenes are going away for good (which I think is a good thing).

But anyway, I don’t believe there’s more to character creation than choosing the looks, the primary attributes and one of the three backgrounds, so that randomization button wouldn’t do much (though I still hope it’s there at least for the looks, since I find face sculpting really tiresome; and I doubt you can create the sort of sea creature looks you can in Bethesda games).

I had originally hoped that the CC would be more conprehensive and more in the vein of Pillars of Eternity (though obviously race and class choices replaced with a slew of more ”minor” lifepath choices that would’ve made some lesser, but still contextually relevant mechanical differences here and there, in and out of dialog), so that going for a random character could’ve produced some wild combinations to try out (like you could do in CP2020... although with waaaay greater variety).

But... que sera sera.

 

[helios969]

The worst thing about DA:I's creator was that weird light the character was washed in making the colors look completely different than they actually were. I definitely had to try it a few times before I got my character right too I had to look good for Bull <3

Which is why I've been vocal for the past decade to Bioware about adding a "show in cutscene" button to confirm the look prior to starting the game. It could be a brief montage of lesser in-game cutscenes. That doesn't seem like it would be overly challenging for a dev to add...and would probably be worth doing just to minimize the amount of complaints after the fact.

 

[Johnysh]

Which is why I've been vocal for the past decade to Bioware about adding a "show in cutscene" button to confirm the look prior to starting the game. It could be a brief montage of lesser in-game cutscenes. That doesn't seem like it would be overly challenging for a dev to add...and would probably be worth doing just to minimize the amount of complaints after the fact.

I agree but instead of "show in cutscene" button, better would be to be able to change the appearance even while already playing. Like for example adding some special-doc that will change your appearance. Or just "showracemenu" in console.

 

[Heart Of Dawn]

One thing Blade and Soul did well was to have a stage in the character creator that let you see your avatar under different lighting, and in different poses and outfits, so you knew well what you'd look like in game.

Without something like that, it's far too easy to make a monster and not realise until way too late. You should(n't) see my Shepard from ME1.

 

[Snowflakez]

Yeah, few times I would see my character in cutscene and I would quickly be quitting the game and starting again and customize my character this time.

Post automatically merged: Jul 8, 2019

We don't know. Could be anything. Different customization system (presets vs sliders vs both) or because of some more background choices that could impact stats and not just dialogs. I don't know. We'll see later. I'm curious if they show the final version of it in PAX West demo. Or if it's going to be another "Everything you see can be changed" And after another 7 months a lot of things will be different

On one hand, I want them to keep tweaking and improving things until the last minute. It's what differentiates good games from "has potential, but fails to deliver" games.

On the other hand, I wonder if it would be appropriate to feel mildly concerned if the game is still a "work in progress," while giving us answers like "it's too early to talk about that," 8 months before launch. I'd hope things would be relatively set in stone by that point and just in the polishing stage. Am I crazy?

 

[Johnysh]

On one hand, I want them to keep tweaking and improving things until the last minute. It's what differentiates good games from "has potential, but fails to deliver" games.

On the other hand, I wonder if it would be appropriate to feel mildly concerned if the game is still a "work in progress," while giving us answers like "it's too early to talk about that," 8 months before launch. I'd hope things would be relatively set in stone by that point and just in the polishing stage. Am I crazy?

No you're not. It's something you don't see very often. But I don't know if it's good or bad. Most of AAA developers would be done with the game and just work on optimization or some small tweaks here and there. The game is most of the times same as you saw in the gameplay few months ago. But with CDPR... They will work on it and work on it and work on it. Kinda makes you think that they will postpone the release date. But I also think they were sure when they decided to announce it. So they must do miracles or the game will be bugged af at the release. We'll see.

 

[Secretz]

On one hand, I want them to keep tweaking and improving things until the last minute. It's what differentiates good games from "has potential, but fails to deliver" games.

On the other hand, I wonder if it would be appropriate to feel mildly concerned if the game is still a "work in progress," while giving us answers like "it's too early to talk about that," 8 months before launch. I'd hope things would be relatively set in stone by that point and just in the polishing stage. Am I crazy?

No, no you are not crazy. I'm a firm believer that if you're ready enough to take pre-orders for a game, it should no longer be "too early to talk about" that game.

 

[Paffcioo]

You shouldn't be disappointed if you're the one who hyped yourself for huge character creation system.

And if CDPR don't deliver something you dreamed about I'm 100% modders will make it possible.

 

[fridgeband]

On one hand, I want them to keep tweaking and improving things until the last minute. It's what differentiates good games from "has potential, but fails to deliver" games.

On the other hand, I wonder if it would be appropriate to feel mildly concerned if the game is still a "work in progress," while giving us answers like "it's too early to talk about that," 8 months before launch. I'd hope things would be relatively set in stone by that point and just in the polishing stage. Am I crazy?

I don't worry, CDPR is very excellent. It will be fine. I see all of what is happening as high level brain activity in their minds. They are all doing lots of very important stuff all day. This may mean very good things for Cyberpunk2077.

Post automatically merged: Jul 8, 2019

You shouldn't be disappointed if you're the one who hyped yourself for huge character creation system.

And if CDPR don't deliver something you dreamed about I'm 100% modders will make it possible.

Consider this: The better the customization is to begin with, the better a base modders will have to build upon.

 

[Mikasa_Germanota]

V male version seems generic, I hope I can create my character look better.
I hope the game has a variety of hairstyles. I want to wear fringe and color mixing, not just mohawk styles

 

[fridgeband]

Interestingly, despite what a lot of people think, games like Fallout 4 and Skyrim did not just have sliders. I know it looked that way, but that's not what it was.

Sliders are things like specific size or position adjustments. There were these options as well.

However... Skyrim also had a lot of options like "Eyes" and "Nose," which, when ticked through, gave you completely different preset options, which you could then fine-tune.

So, personally, I believe this hybrid approach is the best. I don't think entirely presets are the way to go, but I won't be unhappy with what I've seen so far.

Honestly, I have to strongly disagree because I played skyrim way way too much, and played games with sliders way too much. I can't succeed at fully emphasizing just how awful sliders are, and If you look up videos of character creation in skyrim, you can see that it was all sliders, and you could never tell which "notch" the slider was on, which unfortunately would force the player to base what "notch" they thought the slider was based on by the amount of times they clicked (completely lost and without reference points) other than/away from the extreme end of the slider. so basically O------------------------------
*listen carefully*
---O---------------------------- *Click click click!*
"what am I on?" *intense feeling of false hope*
*click... click?*
------------O------------------------ "How many away from the left was that? Oh goshh!!!!! ahhhhhhhhh!"
*Start over*
and that was for every single individual slider.
and then my character would look, well... not how I planned.
It was extremely tedious, and I had to play with that character for the rest of the game, and I never felt like it was "okay", as I never reached that level of satisfaction in the character creator.

In contrast, I really like what CDProjektRed has done so far (those screen shots people posted of the early character creation stuff) with many large lines of "PRESET BARS" not sliders.

Sliders (Bad) = O--------------------------

Preset Bars (Good) = [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] (and lots of them! wow! ) The preset bars are so good because they are little buttons that can be clicked, and they are clearly marked and numbered so that the player knows exactly what setting they are clicking, and they know exactly where the setting remains, hopefully remaining highlighted after selection, and additionally, it allows players to remember and even write down specific presets that are their favorites, and save them for later, or even share those specific numbers with other players like "hey friend, I love your character!" "Thanks! Here's the code! try your self!" *1 for nose, 2 for eyes, etc.* "Wow thanks! amazing!"

I hope CDProjektRed's recent "Mystery" changes are a strong enhancement and expansion of those preset bars and options and customization ability and variety. Maybe CDProjektRed has noticed that people really REALLY love customization and maybe decided "hey what we already have is good, but lets put the customization into CYBER-DRIVE!" improving it even more? This is just a guess, and a hope of mine.

Post automatically merged: Jul 9, 2019

It’s a possibility now that cutscenes are going away for good (which I think is a good thing).

What do you mean by this?

 

[Snowflakez]

Honestly, I have to strongly disagree because I played skyrim way way too much, and played games with sliders way too much. I can't succeed at fully emphasizing just how awful sliders are, and If you look up videos of character creation in skyrim, you can see that it was all sliders, and you could never tell which "notch" the slider was on, which unfortunately would force the player to base what "notch" they thought the slider was based on by the amount of times they clicked (completely lost and without reference points) other than/away from the extreme end of the slider. so basically O------------------------------
*listen carefully*
---O---------------------------- *Click click click!*
"what am I on?" *intense feeling of false hope*
*click... click?*
------------O------------------------ "How many away from the left was that? Oh goshh!!!!! ahhhhhhhhh!"
*Start over*
and that was for every single individual slider.
and then my character would look, well... not how I planned.
It was extremely tedious, and I had to play with that character for the rest of the game, and I never felt like it was "okay", as I never reached that level of satisfaction in the character creator.

In contrast, I really like what CDProjektRed has done so far (those screen shots people posted of the early character creation stuff) with many large lines of "PRESET BARS" not sliders.

Sliders (Bad) = O--------------------------

Preset Bars (Good) = [1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] (and lots of them! wow! ) The preset bars are so good because they are little buttons that can be clicked, and they are clearly marked and numbered so that the player knows exactly what setting they are clicking, and they know exactly where the setting remains, hopefully remaining highlighted after selection, and additionally, it allows players to remember and even write down specific presets that are their favorites, and save them for later, or even share those specific numbers with other players like "hey friend, I love your character!" "Thanks! Here's the code! try your self!" *1 for nose, 2 for eyes, etc.* "Wow thanks! amazing!"

I hope CDProjektRed's recent "Mystery" changes are a strong enhancement and expansion of those preset bars and options and customization ability and variety. Maybe CDProjektRed has noticed that people really REALLY love customization and maybe decided "hey what we already have is good, but lets put the customization into CYBER-DRIVE!" improving it even more? This is just a guess, and a hope of mine.

I don't understand what there is to disagree with, though. All due respect.

I won't argue with your opinion that the design (as in, hard to tell which "notch" you were on, ETC.) was bad, because I agree (bear in mind it also came out in 2011, so not fair to judge by today's standards) but the game literally did not just have sliders.

It had presets for many facial features, which could then be further tweaked with sliders. I don't have the game installed right now, but give me a couple hours and I can show you a short clip to prove my point.

I 100% am with you in that sliders alone are not the way to go. But you can have both. I'm not saying 2077 will have both, the point of my original comment was just to clear up the confusion regarding Bethesda games and their character creation systems -- factually speaking, they were not just sliders, even if it aesthetically appeared that way. There is no difference (functionally) between moving through 10 nose presets with notches, vs a "slider-like" design. The only difference is cosmetic.

Bethesda did also have traditional sliders, though, which adjusted things like eye tilt, nose size, etc. I understand and respect that you do not like those.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

What do you mean by this?

That there might not be 3rd person cutscenes anymore where you'd see your character in the game as per Lilayah's podcast response.

 

[fridgeband]

I don't understand what there is to disagree with, though. All due respect.

I won't argue with your opinion that the design (as in, hard to tell which "notch" you were on, ETC.) was bad, but the game literally did not just have sliders.

It had presets for many facial features, which could then be further tweaked with sliders. I don't have the game installed right now, but give me a couple hours and I can show you a short clip to prove my point.

I'm feeling that weird feeling I get when I'm in the twilight zone. Here, take a look? Skyrim character creation:
(Yes, this person is using mods, but it's the perfect example of my experience with sliders in video games)

Post automatically merged: Jul 9, 2019

That there might not be 3rd person cutscenes anymore where you'd see your character in the game as per Lilayah's podcast response.

You mean like, Lilayah implying that all cutscenes would be first person from now on? Is that what you mean? It's just my guess, but that's interesting, but I sort of doubt it too.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

You mean like, Lilayah implying that all cutscenes would be first person from now on? Is that what you mean?

I don't remember her implying anything else than that 3rd person cutscenes might be getting the boot.

 

[Snowflakez]

I'm feeling that weird feeling I get when I'm in the twilight zone. Here, take a look? Skyrim character creation:
(Yes, this person is using mods, but it's the perfect example of my experience with sliders in video games)

Post automatically merged: Jul 9, 2019

You mean like, Lilayah implying that all cutscenes would be first person from now on? Is that what you mean? It's just my guess, but that's interesting, but I sort of doubt it too.

Does this clear things up at all? (That's not my game or char, btw, I just found a screenshot and did a quick edit -- I still intend to show you an actual video).

And to be clear, we're on the same page about the design of this system. It looks terrible and is very hard to tell what preset (or slider percentage) you are "on" at the moment. Fallout 4 improved it a bit by telling you what each preset option was.

Before a mod has an aneurysm, this does tie in to Cyberpunk. I'm saying the game could have BOTH presets and sliders, because it's been done before.

 

[fridgeband]

I don't remember her implying anything else than that 3rd person cutscenes might be getting the boot.

As I said, It's just my guess. I thought you watched a Lilayah podcast since you mentioned her, so I assumed you could correct my guess and tell me if I was right or wrong about it.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

As I said, It's just my guess. I thought you watched a Lilayah podcast since you mentioned her, so I assumed you could correct my guess and tell me if I was right or wrong about it.

I'm not understanding what you are asking. I thought I did respond to you.

 

[Snowflakez]

Just a wording miscommunication. I think he read the "I don't remember" thing differently than intended.

 

[fridgeband]

View attachment 11008495

Does this clear things up at all? (That's not my game or char, btw, I just found a screenshot and did a quick edit -- I still intend to show you an actual video).

And to be clear, we're on the same page about the design of this system. It looks terrible and is very hard to tell what preset (or slider percentage) you are "on" at the moment. Fallout 4 improved it a bit by telling you what each preset option was.

Before a mod has an aneurysm, this does tie in to Cyberpunk. I'm saying the game could have BOTH presets and sliders, because it's been done before.

I could be wrong, but I'm like 99.9999% confident that we are still on topic since we're using good examples of games with sliders to talk specifically about the topic of the thread, which is Cyberpunk2077 character creation, which may or may not have sliders in it (hopefully not) but it's directly related, and the only reason why we're bringing it up, so I think we're okay. (I think, and I hope)
As for what I originally meant to reply with, I know we agree on some of the things, but can we agree that there is no way to tell the difference between sliders and presets in skyrim because they all look and feel exactly the same? I'm even confident enough to say that skyrim had no presets because I don't really honestly feel that I could prove their existence, since all I ever experienced in skyrim were sliders.
It's just a very big reason why I like the clear and defined preset bars in Cyberpunk2077 ( I know they are subject to change )
[1]-[2]-[3]-[4]-[5]-[6]-[7]-[8]-[9]-[10] because they're just better in every way. They still have all the functionality of a slider, but essentially the preset bar design makes it impossible for the player to get confused or lose reference point or context or make a mistake, which is a good solid improvement.

Post automatically merged: Jul 9, 2019

I'm not understanding what you are asking. I thought I did respond to you.

what...?
I'm just going to try to ask this one question so that we can establish understanding again.
Did you watch the Lilayah podcast?