Xarthisius' Ability to Reveal a Whole Deck

[ArianeGrosmont]

Exactly!
This is the first time it seems like the devs will really be punishing those of us who don't copy/paste decks.
Is this really where you want the game to go, CDPR? Where the meta is the only thing out there?
Until now, there was an advantage to thinking for yourself: you would catch your opponent off guard. (I've actually found it working against me these past few days: about 90% of the matches I lost were because I underestimated my opponent, thinking 'you're just another netdecker... Ooops! Didn't see that coming..' and you know what? Even losing is more enjoyable when it's not to the same old deck) ...and now you want to take that away from us?

Now, I have to say that I'm not at all sure xarthisius will be played a lot. at least not in the lower ranks. But even if you don't see a lot of him, I am very worried about the direction and message the devs are sending with this card. Might as well add a 'download Swim's decks' button...

With all the changes that have happened and will happen, this is the first time I see something I believe can really ruin gwent.

 

[partci]

I find this change boring. All they had to do was to make the synergy between Xarth and Treason actual and not an RNG Russian roulette.

 

[Sargarth]

I disagree. A 10 body gold is still decent. There's tons of golds that are only 10 and have marginal abilities and still get played.
The fact that you can deck track to see what your opponent has in hand is pretty huge. Playing vs Monsters and see Crones? Only 2 in his deck? Then there's one in his hand. Don't see any Crones in the hand? Maybe shove the top one on the bottom so they NEVER come up. You can do the same with their big golds like Igni and such.

The only thing the card doesn't work for are tutors. And I think every faction will be running some sort of tutor to fetch cards.

In the example you provided: you see 2 crones in his deck. Can you do anything to stop him from playing 20 points from his crone in hand? No. If he doesnt have a single crone in hand, yet 2 of them are near the top of the deck. Can you stop opponent from drawing crones? No.

The problem of this card is that it's an only round 1 card and round 1 gold cards are the ones that usually force opponent out of the round and make you win the round. Look at current Old speartip or Coral. Xarthisius is a round 1 only gold card that doesnt help you win round 1 and it doesnt give you high enough value for later rounds. Sure, you play a 10 str gold and see opponents deck, yet your opponent plays a 20 str gold that puts value on board instead of putting value into information. I'd rather play a 20 str gold instead of 10 str gold in that scenario.

 

[OwlRaider]

In the example you provided: you see 2 crones in his deck. Can you do anything to stop him from playing 20 points from his crone in hand? No. If he doesnt have a single crone in hand, yet 2 of them are near the top of the deck. Can you stop opponent from drawing crones? No.

The problem of this card is that it's an only round 1 card and round 1 gold cards are the ones that usually force opponent out of the round and make you win the round. Look at current Old speartip or Coral. Xarthisius is a round 1 only gold card that doesnt help you win round 1 and it doesnt give you high enough value for later rounds. Sure, you play a 10 str gold and see opponents deck, yet your opponent plays a 20 str gold that puts value on board instead of putting value into information. I'd rather play a 20 str gold instead of 10 str gold in that scenario.

You obviously missed the point entirely as the combo with Treason is just gravy, especially after this change. Before the change it was lackluster because just the top 3 cards from the opponent's deck isn't much of a choice which makes the Treason interaction limited at best. With the new effect the volume of information you gain by playing it is insane to the point where it greatly eclipses any interaction Treason may have with it, though obviously it makes the Treason interaction significantly better if you do run the card but Xarthisius will be a lot more useful than just for the Treason combo.

 

[Lyserus]

Such ability with 10str is just too powerful. I can't think of anyway to this card “good for gwent”, and for pros knowing opponent's deck and even drawing order is most certainly get him/her to win

 

[ArianeGrosmont]

Considering that golds will lose their immunity status heck yes! Tibor will be useless unless completely reworked and to be honest NG already doesn't have that many staple golds as it is, no idea why Cahir was even on that list as it was mostly used in pre-nerf Calvey decks, post Calvey nerf he's been absent from all decks barring Millguard. Xarthisius' new effect is insane to the experienced player who understands the value of information. When you add tools like Gwent Tracker on top of that to preserve that information on the screen rather than just in your hand, makes it even more powerful. We already had this problem with Dandelion so CDPR added the "shuffle your deck afterwards" clause, Xarthisius should definitely receive the same treatment, for your opponent's deck obviously rather than yours. It will still be an insanely powerful card as you'll be able to see all cards in your opponent's deck but at least you won't have an exact play by play on what your opponent will get into his hand in future draws(from drawing between rounds, spies, etc). Considering the insane power of this effect the 10 strength body is insane too. Definitely needs toning down if the effect remains the same.

I half agree. But I think in the end neither shuffling the deck nor making him a 2 strength will change the bottom line being you can see your opponent's entire fucking deck!!!
We're not talking about a few cards that together and with some luck and/or good plays give you a general idea of what your opponent's planning. We're talking about one card showing you everything. Nope. No nerf can make this ok IMO.

 

[Sargarth]

This card is far from OP and wont see any competetive play at all. Here's why: this card only provides value when played in round 1 as the information and draw disruption from this card only gives you high enough value when opponent still has 3 draws and 2 mulligans left. When played round 2 this card just disrupts 1 mulligan and in round 3 this card just does nothing. Yet Xarthisius is still too bad for a round 1 gold card as round 1 golds are the ones that provide huge value in long rounds, like current Coral, Old speartip, Caranthir or Igni. Those cards provide you with huge value in long rounds and those are the competetive golds. Xarthisius is a round 1 gold card that doesnt help you win round 1.

 

[Lyserus]

Xarth tweak idea

Topic so hot right now:look:


The debet is going on for a while now and I won't tell you how broken this card is again, just my tweak idea.

All in all xarth is I suppose an weird addition for reveal deck. Instead of showing you your opponent's deck , the ability to use reveal as advantage just might make it better without OP.

What about: 5str, choose a revealed card in opponent's deck, force opponent to play this card in his next turn?

 

[Draconifors]

Lyserus Thread merged.

Let's not have too many threads on the same subject.

 

[partci]

I was thinking more like look at the top two and the last two cards of your opponents deck, choose which one to go at the bottom and which one on top. Done deal. But, well, they went with this... whatever it is.

 

[TheZirrKing]

The main argument I see for Xarthisius being OP is that he can allow you to view the entire enemy deck... But how much information will he give you that you couldn't infer on your own? Most of the time I can guess most of my opponents deck within the first few plays, I think his ability to give you draw order is his most powerful ability. Which is mostly irrelevant because of Mulligans and a lot of decks are able to Shuffle themselves, so as long as you save cards like Stefan or Dandelion for after Xarthisius is played you undo his effect of being able to guess your draw.

 

[TheZirrKing]

I was thinking more like look at the top two and the last two cards of your opponents deck, choose which one to go at the bottom and which one on top. Done deal. But, well, they went with this... whatever it is.

The last version of Xarthisius was looking at the Top 3 cards, and in that state it was just about unplayable.

 

[partci]

It was unplayable, cause Treason could not play Gold cards. This way you are (presumably) denying your opponent to play a card and adjust what card to draw next. Other idea would be for him to lock the card that he throws at the bottom of the deck. But then everybody will say it's OP.

 

[Eliadann]

I am missing something about the new Xarthisius. After looking at your opponent´s deck and moving one card to the bottom, do the deck on top of it gets shuffled or in the order it was? This remains unclear to me. If it does not get shuffled, I am inclined to agree with people stating this is broken

 

[ZirrKing]

I am missing something about the new Xarthisius. After looking at your opponent´s deck and moving one card to the bottom, do the deck on top of it gets shuffled or in the order it was? This remains unclear to me. If it does not get shuffled, I am inclined to agree with people stating this is broken

No the deck is not Shuffled, however you can manually shuffle your deck with Various cards like Stefan Skellin or Dandelion... However that is what is the most powerful aspect of Xarthisius.

 

[zombee81]

I don't know if it has been posted before, but does no one see the benefit of 3rd party tools here?
Whether the card is OP or not, it doesn't matter, when I can use other apps to help me win the game. NO card design should give the player the possibility to manipulate the win condition with other tools. I can simply use my cellphone and take pictures of the entire opponent’s deck. I can even design a mobile app to help me identify the cards and do the math for me. There are many possibilities to cheat with this card. Therefore, this card shouldn't have been a design idea in the first place.

(EDIT) From a psychological point of view: Whenever the opponent plays this card (especially at the beginning of the 1st round), you have no information about, whether the opponent takes pictures of your deck or not. But the possibility is enough to take the fun out of the current match. Therefore, less fun in general.

The amount of information both players can store and process should be limited only to brain and game. This card function crosses the line.

 

[el_Bosco]

It is plain broken being able to see all the opponents cards and drawing order. Even if he gets nerfed to 1 value, it is still broken.

 

[SHALLAHJUSTICE]

This is great news, he is such a cool card it's a travesty to not give him the power he deserves.

 

[SentryOmega]

I am dying to play this card lol.

 

[Arcologist]

As pointed out, information is really not that valuable in this game, mostly you are trying to maximize the value of your cards. With experience you can figure out what's in the opponent's hand and deck without having to see it. He will make treason more powerful but not much else.