Aspects of the witcher 3 that should be applied/ignored

[CptFandango]

Aspects of the witcher 3 that should be applied/ignored

Hello folks

Just looking for everybody's opinion of things from The Witcher 3 which should be in or out of Cyberpunk 2077, can be any aspect, story related, animations, gameplay etc etc etc.

In my view off the top of my head

Keep!

-quality of character development, writing, story lines, emotional investment.
-general all round polish and AAA factor
-realistic and emotionally convincing character facial animations (and bodily gait) given current tech of the time, don't hire the Andromeda person!!
-Difficult choices and decisions which leave you sitting there for ten minutes deciding on a dialogue option to the point of being immersion breaking (being asked if you should massacre 50 civilians or get the cure for a megavirus whilst things are blowing up in the background and its just on a weird loop animation in game waiting for you to click a dialogue option when In reality if it took that long to decide the explosion would have happened and the civilians would be dead, stop going on with yourself and leave the tangent mr fandango!)
-comedy and references (I got the king of dog shite reference )
-meticulously designed views and art in every scene, whatever angle you point your mouse, no copy pasted dungeon trawls and textures.
-wide range of performance options whatever system you have, top options fully exploit whatever hardware is out at the time of release but mid range options to run on older systems and dog turd ancient pc's can play smooth with minimum settings.

Ditch!

-awkward weird inventory, maybe add a search function? change it to lists in subsections I don't know pay a guy to make it good
-make some repetitive animations skipable
-make the combat realistic to be smooth with key binds (pause to read bestiary add oil and choose a decoction) to be fair this one is probably just me being shite...
-struggling to think of bad things about this game I give up

 

[Suhiira]

You have to keep in mind that since W3, and CP2077, are both intended to be playable on consoles there are certain limitations on what CDPR can do in terms of UI, graphics, and other things.

 

[Sardukhar]

Also that Witcher 3 is a different game and although topics like this are fine within reason, let's be careful not to turn it into a Witcher discussion thread. Different forum for that.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Also that Witcher 3 is a different game

Indeed it is.

What to keep...
What ever engine techincal aspects they've learned and some general design learnings like how to manage itemization, pacing and big worldspaces and the like.

Other than that. Nothing. Cyberpunk should be allowed to be different, allowed to be it's own thing that stands on its own feet rather than something that surfs in with the past success of another completely unrelated franchise.

 

[Eltyris]

Positives are well known to developers so there is no point in repeating them, though storytelling should be more adjusted to sandbox/open world format.

90% of all problems in CDPR's games are related to design and execution gameplay/rpg systems.

- In general, gameplay should have a clear identity and purpose, and every aspect of it's design committed to it...every studio known for consistency in HQ gameplay has it's own "philosophy" when it comes to this ( At it's core, problem with all three Witcher games is trying to mix different designs inspired by other developers than end up contradicting one another)
- Controls and Targeting systems should be completely redesigned, offering more responsiveness and precision.
- Gameplay with a higher skill ceiling depending on difficulty, affecting enemy AI and base mechanics...see NG Black, Platinum games, Halo, etc
- Loot should never be level based and instead more oriented on gameplay utility ( Souls series), characterization ( Baldur's Gate II), handplaced in the environment appropriate to challenge to acquire it
- No artificial restrictions in rpg/gameplay systems invented to compensate for their poor design related to one another( you cannot do an action x in state y, "equipping" only certain number of skills , level restriction on items, etc)
- Less hand holding with UI icons...use visual and audio design to guide the player ( luckily recent AAA show a trend toward this)
- More complex quest design
- Better transition, gameplay to dialogue ( no fade to black screen)
- More "lean", less bloated progression and crafting systems, oriented on offering variety of playstyles instead of +x% passive bonuses. It is better to have a choice selection of interesting, quality upgrades than massive list of inconsequential ( and usually game breaking) ones.
- ( This is more subjective but) no Arkham Style/automated lock on systems...this restricts gameplay in an open world and is more suited for, room to room, scripted encounters
- more camera options, FOV, etc
- ( Also subjective) but less color saturation, in some instances

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

Witcher 3 has probably the most beautiful world in the video game industry, but besides graphics that world doens't offer much else.

Cyberpunk 2077 should definetely have a more vivid world in terms of activities and things happening during the open world exploration, and by that I mean non mission stuff. It would be great to not restrict the amazing stuff to happen only during missions.

Let's bring the war, the fight beween rival gangs, the bank robbery the murder to the in game exploration! Let those things happen radomly during the world exploration, that's how you give life to a world: when you make it feel unscripted.

- ( This is more subjective but) no Arkham Style/automated lock on systems...this restricts gameplay in an open world and is more suited for, room to room, scripted encounters

Another thing developers shouldn't take from Arkham is the fighting mechanics because it is possible to beat that game by only pressing one button non stop, (witcher 3 is almost like this, since most enemies offer almost no chalenge).

Most of the demographic consisting gamers nowadays love to feel like a god killing machine who has no difficulties completing the game, but there's a significant ammount of players who still prefer games that makes you feel like a mere mortal.

- In general, gameplay should have a clear identity and purpose, and every aspect of it's design committed to it...every studio known for consistency in HQ gameplay has it's own "philosophy"

That's perhaps why small groups of developers tend to make games with more consistent "personalities", because when there are less people behind the game they usually focus in ONE single objective.

Other than that. Nothing. Cyberpunk should be allowed to be different, allowed to be it's own thing that stands on its own feet rather than something that surfs in with the past success of another completely unrelated franchise.

Are you implying games made by the same developer should be different and unique in their own way? Be very carefull with what you say, Todd Howard is watching you...very closely.

Spoiler

 

[Suhiira]

While installments in a game franchise should improve with each new release to many companies go about it wrong. They add the newest bells and whistles in terms of mechanics, improve the graphics, but seem to forget the basic game-play elements that made the game a success to start with. Those elements are what made the game good not the other stuff.

Just because some successful games are FPS or open world doesn't mean adding FPS or open world to your game makes it automatically better. Sure it may appeal more to a small niche of gamers, but often at the expense of your core group of players because often these things change or replace basic game-play elements. An empty open world is NOT an improvement and will piss off far more gamers then it pleases.

 

[Sardukhar]

An empty open world is NOT an improvement and will piss off far more gamers then it pleases.

Yes and we hope that CDPR learned from the POI stuff in W3. They said they did and that content fill is the objective, iirc, but that was years ago. STILL TRUE I'M SURE.

 

[cyberpunkforever]

ignore: the orange tint on some maps
not enough content for some quests or relationships with important characters, (like triss romance before patch)
no side quests and only main quests in last part of the game
level restriction for items
destructible grear that needs to be repaired all time


everything else could be applied, living breathing open world, interesting story and characters, great side quests,
add fov slider

 

[Suhiira]

Yes and we hope that CDPR learned from the POI stuff in W3. They said they did and that content fill is the objective, iirc, but that was years ago. STILL TRUE I'M SURE.

But at the same time I don't want Fallout 4 where every 10m you have to fight something.
That's one thing DA: Inquisition did fairly well with their open world. There was enough to keep you busy but not so much it became a pain to travel from A to B because of respawning MOBs.

 

[Sardukhar]

But at the same time I don't want Fallout 4 where every 10m you have to fight something.

So I have NO idea how you had that experience in FO4. I totally did not. At all. In fact, much of the wasteland is empty for me and what tries to steal from or eat me is generally well spotted. I was playing FO4 in Hardcore, one live to live mode and doing okay because of this.

Anyway, I meant content, not combat.

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

But at the same time I don't want Fallout 4 where every 10m you have to fight something.
That's one thing DA: Inquisition did fairly well with their open world. There was enough to keep you busy but not so much it became a pain to travel from A to B because of respawning MOBs.

The Nemesys system from Shadow of Mordor might be a great inspiration for CP2077 to not fall in the hands of the mindless killing, which is killing without purpouse or fun. Funny thing is Fallout 4 was pretty empty, but there are many other ways besides increasing the enemies spawn rate in order to make a game's world not empty.

These are the kind of content that I really would love to see in CP2077's world exploration:

-Being able to dominate territories for certain gangs or corporations
-Being abble to manipulate the power chain from inside or outside this corporations (something like the Nemesys System)
-Being hired to kill certain people or to steal certain information
-Having assassins trying to kill you because of something you did
-Gambling (dice games, blackjack, making bets)
-Street racing
-Batltle arenas
-Being abble to make dangerous street deals
-Being abble to make hostages and demand hamsom
-Bank robbery
-Battle arena but for cars
-Battle arena but for mechs (woah)
-Making it possible for players to buy stocks from companies and manipulate the market
-Blackmailing though information manipulation
-Being abble to start a war with certain gangs or corporations by siding with other groups or by creating your own (it would be great to customize your own corporation/gang/army)

 

[Rawls]

Keep:

1. Engine,
2. graphics quality,
3. non-linear-ish quest design,
4. long term choice & consequence system,
5. writing quality for characters and story
6. fast travel mechanic that can't be used from anywhere
7. dialogue quality (though system may need to be tweaked)
8. I would like them to keep a strong sense of personality for the PC as I think it's more fun to role play a character with a specific point of view than it is to have lots of empty feeling options meant to reflect the player rather than the character (if that make's sense).
9. EDIT - Open World (they did it well), not everyone is a huge fan of them but I loved it

Change:

1. Combat that balances melee and ranged combat ... with modern weapons and the like;
2. Stealth system (Horizon zero dawn or dues ex like would be good);
3. hacking system (nobody has really done it well that I've played ... though I never played watch dogs);
4. skill progression system that reflects more play styles than just combat;
5. cyberpunk aesthetics obviously; cars & flying cars;
6. better searching mechanic (something like horizon zero dawn might do ... though I would prefer if it's effectiveness was stat/skill dependent;
7. "smaller" story ... with emphasis on protecting characters that are important to the player rather than saving or changing the world (in cyberpunk you can't beat the system ... only survive to face it another day),
8. more varied gear ... and I agree it should not be level dependent ...
9. life path system in character creator to give player some agency in character they will be playing (but once game starts character has a mostly set personality like in the witcher games.
10. Definitely upgraded inventory UI and crafting system
11. Useful companions in combat that have different styles depending on their "role" - I'd be even more happy if it was a full on companion system like DA:I and rpgs of old but it doesn't have to be. Just useful companions is all I really need ... though a more team focus would certainly be welcomed.
12. EDIT - Mod Support

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Are you implying games made by the same developer should be different and unique in their own way? Be very carefull with what you say, Todd Howard is watching you...very closely.

You know... Besides that I have protective hexes and pendants agains Toddler's gaze around my home... Ever since Witcher 3 became a success, I've had this nasty feeling at the back of my head that CP2077 might just become CDPR's proverbial Fallout 3 -- the "We wanted to do something different for a change" -game that despite saying that is still the same game as the previous one but with a changed paintwork, and furthermore invading a renown RPG franchise and turning it into something... nearly unrecognizable in all but certain aesthetic choices and a list of franchise-familiar names (all that Bethesda did for Fallout). I mean something happened there when "This isn't going to be for everyone" type of statement suddenly turned into "We want to do games for everyone!" (Don't ask for links, I can't bother digging them up right now, I just remember reading those quotes.)

I hope not, of course. But........

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

kofeiiniturpa
In my most optimistic dreams there is still a CDPR who will want the attention of both casuals and hardcore gamers, there's the slightest possibility of it happening though, this is because it takes a lot of time to develop a game this way and the hardcore gamers are the minorty.

The thing is, they could make the game for both casuals and non-casuals, because it's possible to make a complicated and at the same time simple game.

Spoiler

In my most pessimistic dreams CP2077 is gonna be a dumbed down casual fest

Spoiler

AKA FALLOUT 3

Spoiler

AKA FALLOUT 4

Spoiler

AKA SKYRIM.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

it's possible to make a complicated and at the same time simple game.

I'd use the word "complex". Complicated has a negative undertone. But sure, they could. I've tried to push the idea that they could basically use "difficulty" sliders to let the player basically tailor his experience. The core rules are the same and the core gameplay (what ever it might be, though something with what the following fits) remains as it is, but you could then have a three-way sliders for difficulty and gameplay preference.

For difficulty:
Easy-normal-hard. Easy is easy... fast character growth, lower prices, higher availability of items, easier skill tests across the board be it hitting the target, opening a lock or something else. Hard is the opposite, normal the in-between.

For gameplay preference (not related to difficulty, just how much skills and stats affect the gameplay):
Action-Normal-RPG (or what ever words to use). Action means that character abilities are more of a spice over your action oriented game (like most of all current day AAA RPG's), skills and stats make a difference, but are mostly in the background not disturbing the gameplay. Normal means that there is a balance where both sides matter (like few current day AAA RPG's); skills and stats are helpful and more required in order to excel. RPG tips the scale so that characterbuild is of utmost importance in everything it touches in gameplay (like none of the current day AAA RPG's).

Mix and match with difficulty and gameplay - easy stat driven game, check, hard action oriented game, check, and so forth.... It will not be able to offer the most fluid action experience possible to compete with dedicated action titles, nor will it compete with dedicated oldschool RPG's, but it will give the player a good number of ways to choose from on how the game plays, including more stat driven and action driven gameplay styles.

Or something along those lines. It's all a pipedream anyway.

 

[Suhiira]

For my part I played W3 on "easy" (i.e. story mode) not because of any increased leveling speed or better prices but simply because I totally suck at twitch combat and that was the best setting to reduce my character deaths due to player ineptitude.

Since I think most players select "easy" expressly because of combat rather then any other reason I'd like to see a "normal" game-play with an "easy" combat option.

 

[metalmaniac21]

Aspects of The Witcher (1st) to be applied in CP2077
-Mouse control for disabled and classic cRPG fans

 

[Lisbeth_Salander]

I'd use the word "complex". Complicated has a negative undertone. But sure, they could. I've tried to push the idea that they could basically use "difficulty" sliders to let the player basically tailor his experience. The core rules are the same and the core gameplay (what ever it might be, though something with what the following fits) remains as it is, but you could then have a three-way sliders for difficulty and gameplay preference.

For difficulty:
Easy-normal-hard. Easy is easy... fast character growth, lower prices, higher availability of items, easier skill tests across the board be it hitting the target, opening a lock or something else. Hard is the opposite, normal the in-between.

Or something along those lines. It's all a pipedream anyway.

As if the word "complicated" in all its significance isn't what casuals see it. I honestly agree, complex is a nice word.

Mix and match with difficulty and gameplay - easy stat driven game, check, hard action oriented game, check, and so forth.... It will not be able to offer the most fluid action experience possible to compete with dedicated action titles, nor will it compete with dedicated oldschool RPG's, but it will give the player a good number of ways to choose from on how the game plays, including more stat driven and action driven gameplay styles.

There should honestly be the highest possible amount of difficulties. 6 or seven if necessary. Or even better, let the player chose what "difficulty" factors he will like to have in his game. Let he personalise his gaming style instead of having pre defined difficulties.

Want smart A.I? Fine, you don't want smart A.I but want sponge damage enemies? also fine but get out of here if you chose that.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

There should honestly be the highest possible amount of difficulties. 6 or seven if necessary.

For the example I opted for 3 since there'd be a ton of balancing to get all the permutations working sufficiently. I kinda like fewer "difficulty" settings anyway; there's bigger differences that way and you know that your choice on it carries weight (unless of course the design is full of shit and all the settings are practically the same). As opposed to something often seen like VeryEasy-Easy-Normal-Hard-VeryHard where there's usually very little difference between neighboring settings.