The people have spoken 
Seriously, saying that Elven Scout's and Slave Driver's create ability isn't one if the main reasons they are used is disingenuous, tbh. The difference between, let's say, creating a Panther when the opponent puts his first Mangonel on the board and not being able to create the damn cat is huge.
Seriously, saying that Elven Scout's and Slave Driver's create ability isn't one if the main reasons they are used is disingenuous, tbh. The difference between, let's say, creating a Panther when the opponent puts his first Mangonel on the board and not being able to create the damn cat is huge.
Exactly. Imagine playing with Reveal and your opponent spawning alchemists. has happened a million times. Or playing with Queensguard and your opponent spawning 5 of them.
As for the Elven scout, the problem is that it only seems inconsistent at first glance. Then people realize how consistent it actually is. Where every unit had its own weaknesses and to include one meant you had to make your deck stronger against some things and weaker against others, now you can have these cards that can give you just what you need in the situation. For example spawning Hawker supports when you see the opponent playing consume swarm along with a 2 point body. And you can use them again and again. Granted it's not always guaranteed that you will get just the thing for the situation but there's more than one unit that will find use against different decks and at least one is bound to be in your options usually. If not you can just go for the high point value and still make it a worthy 11 - 12 point play. So basically there is no weakness. You will get something really useful, something useful (like a Vrihedd Officer in Dwarves), or a lot of points. I think CDPR figured that these cards would have no synergy so they wouldn't see much play but it turns out that in a point spamming tempo meta, they are all one needs.
I also agree that we need more engines. This used to be the case in the Closed Beta, where tactics revolved around card combos, not point spamming. Granted, some of these were broken, but we have learned something from our mistakes. Right? Agility is complete now and there's a row cap and some of these bloody fantastic ideas could, no, rather NEED to come back.
For example:
Old Vrihedd Sappers: STR 4 Disloyal, Agile.
When you play a special card, damage the whole row by 2. Decrease that to 1, and maybe its point value to 3 and you've got a brilliant card.
Old Wardancer: Whenever you play an ambush, boost this unit by 3
Old Dol Blathanna Trappers: STR 6 Ambush, Disloyal, Agile
When the opponent plays a unit on the row you've placed this unit at, flip it over and damage the whole row by 2. Make it loyal, and affecting the opposite row and boom. Another amazing, synergistic card that is not all about points either.
Old Shieldmaiden: STR 4
Whenever this unit is damaged, play a copy of it from your deck. Or even before midwinter when it was:
Damage an enemy by 2. If it was already damaged play another copy of this unit from your deck.
4RM3D;n10395502 said:
By writing about “unfun” RNG cards, I didn’t make a statement about their power. I wanted to address a different aspect of the game. The fact that a card can or cannot be used in Tournaments or in Tier 1 decks is something different. For me, average player, on the low steps of the ladder there is the chance of some RNG factor flipping the game on its head.
Imagine a football game in which one team has a tall player. It revolves its strategy around having the tall player using his head to score goals. The opposing team has fast and skilled players but all small ones. Not even on the bench there is someone able to contest the way he jumps and scores. Then, suddenly, the coach of the other team hires (or should I say create?) four tall defending players to thwart my strategy. That’s not fun.
Create mechanics feels like your opponent has a sidebar with additional cards he/she might add to the deck to counter your strategy. Aguara True Form is a pain to play against. If you are unlucky enough your opponent might well “create” a second Restore. It happened to me tonight. When there is a strong card in the cardpool, “create” will eventually summon one-two-three copy of it. In my opinion this aspect will make the game harder to balance.
ser2440;n10399342 said:
Not to mention Runestone into Henry van Attre high-rolling the way to victory.
bojerbela;n10397372 said:
This.
ser2440;n10399342 said:
And this.
There have been occasions where I've been up against NG Slave Drivers combined with Viper Witchers and the NG player has had more of my cards on his side of the board than I have on mine due to the Vipers removal being so high; anywhere between 8-11pts of removal is about usual for that card. Any chance you have at establishing any engine cards is negated as the NG player already has a fair idea of your strategy/deck by seeing some of your cards and they can then just remove key pieces with their Vipers, whilst, somewhat ironically and if RNG is on their side, benefitting from the very engine cards through Slave Drivers that they've just denied me.
My thoughts on Slave Drivers are that they should be changed to:
Slave Driver - Officer - 2str - spawn a random bronze unit from the opposing faction on your side.
I would also maybe consider putting a power limit on them too; something like: spawn a random bronze unit from the opposing faction with up to a maximum of (and including) 7str on your side.
Which would make them a 9point play if they got a 7str unit every time; which is not unreasonable for a Bronze unit I feel, and if they only got a 1str unit every time, well then that's fair enough too, and what RNG is all about, right? You roll the dice and take your chances....
4RM3D;n10397252 said:
Maybe you need to think this through, just a bit more. Slave Driver is so versatile, especially given that it creates a narrow range of bronzes;; it's not just the +2, although that's not trivial. I can't imagine not finding a bronze in my opponent's deck that wouldn't be useful, or better yet, synergize with my board pieces. I say this as someone who recently incorporated a slightly more powerful card in Portcullis: that card has won me games by turning the tide in the form of putting up big points (e.g. Djenge Frette, Fake Ciri), gaining CA (e.g. pick your resilient unit or resurrecting silver), or allowing me to chain-summon/res (something NR just doesn't do well).
If NR had a SD or Elven Scout equivalent, I'd be happy. Oh well.. guess I'll be happy with armor.. /s
edited to add: Forgot that SD gives a lot of info on the opposing deck. Goes without saying, I suppose,
Philologus;n10408722 said:
That is still an important difference. If Elven Scout would no longer have an extra body, no one will be playing it. If SD no longer has an extra body, at the very least, you still get info on your opponent's deck. Then again, SD can still often give you sub-par choices and usually you can already guess what the opponent is using from the first two cards being played.
In conclusion, while ES and SD can fit into most archetypes because of their flexible nature, the tipping point is still the extra 2 strength. I wager very few players will run the cards without the extra body.
umm, never happened to me. Every deck I've come across with the exception of Foltest has either useful or powerful cards. Or both. And I've played Alchemy with Slave Drivers
That is true though I have to admit. One deck uses them to set up a Mahakam Ale, the other usually to set up a Commander's Horn (plus it can be neat getting a unit that's buffed by 2). But even so, it's so frustrating that they can play certain strategies better than the opponent simply because they can create an amount of units that is at least twice the bronze copies limit
4RM3D;n10408902 said:
I disagree. If ES transformed into the unit, people would still play it. It accents SC so well, in that one can (obviously) use one group of bronzes and then "create" synergistic ones outside the deck, and slap them on the board with a +2. SC units work so well with one another. Can you really argue otherwise?
And again, SD is absurd less because the +2, and more because it is likely you're going to find a valuable bronze in the selection that is synergistic. I'm with ser2440; on that point. It may be subjective based on what you're running, but I'd love to have a comparison list.
:rage:Lol Rng is great it belongs in competative play, the only flaw i see is slave drivers. Other then that every other Rng card seems pretty solid and enjoyable to use not broken sometimes quite the opposite. It requires skill and game knowledge to run Rng based builds, if its so consistantly powerful play a full rng build to grand master then comment :youdontsay:
Game is fluking frustrating to play with this shit. Trying to play Axemen and guess what? Elven Scouts are pulling Weather Clearers, Runestones are pulling Mages to clear Weather, than Aguara hits a Scorch or Artifact Compression.
So skillful and so FUN to play.
I'm just getting more and more agitated as more as I play.
This is the state of the game right now. This utter BS at which I invested more than a year.
Way to go, CDPR.
Hope your next patch actually fix something this time.
Edit: just got: Aguarad in Last Wished in Hymed in Skjalled in Berserkered for I don't know how many points, cause I just turned the game off. F Off.
So skillful and so FUN to play.
I'm just getting more and more agitated as more as I play.
This is the state of the game right now. This utter BS at which I invested more than a year.
Way to go, CDPR.
Hope your next patch actually fix something this time.
Edit: just got: Aguarad in Last Wished in Hymed in Skjalled in Berserkered for I don't know how many points, cause I just turned the game off. F Off.
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RNG is bad in a game where you are trying to balance fractions against each other. I play some RNG myself and the range of points a single RNG card gets me can range from 20-30 to 4. That's ridiculous. A lot of the RNG cards also suffer from the fact that they can RNG into another faction. To me if you are adding RNG the first constraint should be to remove these cards because it you have to balance every possibly combo of a faction along with one copied card that can be any card from any faction. That's insanely hard to accomplish.
I came to GWENT from MTG because I didn't feel like spending a few thousand dollars buying digital cards I can't use while I'm sitting across the table with my friends. I picked GWENT because it seemed to be high strategy compared to hearthstone and less of a grind with respect to earning cards. Now it just feels like an RNG simulator where the only thing that matters is the points. Removal cards have pretty much no value anymore because there is so much RNG shit spawning three cards for one whenever it's played and you have no clue what's coming.
I came to GWENT from MTG because I didn't feel like spending a few thousand dollars buying digital cards I can't use while I'm sitting across the table with my friends. I picked GWENT because it seemed to be high strategy compared to hearthstone and less of a grind with respect to earning cards. Now it just feels like an RNG simulator where the only thing that matters is the points. Removal cards have pretty much no value anymore because there is so much RNG shit spawning three cards for one whenever it's played and you have no clue what's coming.
Playing some Longships and Greatswords, I hit on Eithne: 3 Elven Scouts = 3 Vrihedd Brigades, than a Hatori on an Elven Scout on a Vrihedd Brigade in R3 again.
Next game (Eithne again): Runestone in Ida to kill my Lonship, than when I ressed it: Elven Scout in a Sage in a AThunder. Than Elven Scout in a Panther.
Next game (Eithne again): Runestone in Ida to kill my Lonship, than when I ressed it: Elven Scout in a Sage in a AThunder. Than Elven Scout in a Panther.
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Create shouldn't have RNG. They should make it a definitive set of choices designed around the what the card is.
For example:
Slave Driver - Create either Peasant Militia or Slave Infantry, or play Dimeritium Shackles from your deck.
There, you can still create stuff, but the stuff is finite and known, and there's also more utility to the card if you included another card in your deck.
Elven Scout - Create an Elven Blade or a Crushing trap
These examples might be dramatic, and obviously there'd have to be tuning for a lot of cards, but this is how it should be handled. We shouldn't have to play guess work based on an entire pool. It's better when the player can be strategic by knowing what they want or need, and for the opponent to know what to possibly expect.
Heck, make create a silver/gold mechanic only, but make the choices finite. Bump Salve Driver up to silver and allow him to create Dimeritium Shackles with the other choices. They basically did this with units like Milaen, who is just crushing trap with a body. They should just make her, Create - Crushing Trap or Elven blade.
There, then they can make Elven Scout do something else.
This game is all about point spam because they're not doing anything creative with mechanics. Therefore, anything that can create more points will automatically be played more, and there are very specific create cards right now that can consistently play more points than other create cards.
Slave driver, you're going to get something good. Even if it's bad, you still have a chance of getting a synergy with it by using another slave driver. For example, Blue Stripes commando - wow, awful. Next SD gets you a Scout. Wow, suddenly you have a bit of synergy, and that was probably the worst pull. So, at worst, a two card 10 point gain...and that's not even considering the other possible choices you could have gotten. Even if it went the other way, you get 8 points for 2 bronze, but your RNG for that would have to be absolutely terrible.
For example:
Slave Driver - Create either Peasant Militia or Slave Infantry, or play Dimeritium Shackles from your deck.
There, you can still create stuff, but the stuff is finite and known, and there's also more utility to the card if you included another card in your deck.
Elven Scout - Create an Elven Blade or a Crushing trap
These examples might be dramatic, and obviously there'd have to be tuning for a lot of cards, but this is how it should be handled. We shouldn't have to play guess work based on an entire pool. It's better when the player can be strategic by knowing what they want or need, and for the opponent to know what to possibly expect.
Heck, make create a silver/gold mechanic only, but make the choices finite. Bump Salve Driver up to silver and allow him to create Dimeritium Shackles with the other choices. They basically did this with units like Milaen, who is just crushing trap with a body. They should just make her, Create - Crushing Trap or Elven blade.
There, then they can make Elven Scout do something else.
This game is all about point spam because they're not doing anything creative with mechanics. Therefore, anything that can create more points will automatically be played more, and there are very specific create cards right now that can consistently play more points than other create cards.
Slave driver, you're going to get something good. Even if it's bad, you still have a chance of getting a synergy with it by using another slave driver. For example, Blue Stripes commando - wow, awful. Next SD gets you a Scout. Wow, suddenly you have a bit of synergy, and that was probably the worst pull. So, at worst, a two card 10 point gain...and that's not even considering the other possible choices you could have gotten. Even if it went the other way, you get 8 points for 2 bronze, but your RNG for that would have to be absolutely terrible.
alexandr22;n10393842 said:
Why? Ranked is basically advanced casual with numbers so people feel better about winning, nothing more. What skill is there anyways in playing OP cards in a certain order to easily win?
Game has become an RNG clownfiesta after midwinter update
Create cards removed any kind of strategy from the game. You play fog? No problem, enemy plays an Elven scout -> Row clear bronze deus ex machina.
You play archspore? No problem, enemy just evlen- scout -> Dol Blathanna marskman.
Same goes for runestones...You play fog? Runestone -> Nekurat-> Moonlight. There goes your archetype down the drain? Why? Because enemy pulled an answer out of his A$$. At least in other RNG CCG like hearthstone you still have major strategic options, like to trade minions or attack hero, do multiple combos with cards in one turn, or punish an enemy with board clear when he over extends. Gwent had one thing, ONE. And this used to be strategy. Now that's gone too.
Create cards removed any kind of strategy from the game. You play fog? No problem, enemy plays an Elven scout -> Row clear bronze deus ex machina.
You play archspore? No problem, enemy just evlen- scout -> Dol Blathanna marskman.
Same goes for runestones...You play fog? Runestone -> Nekurat-> Moonlight. There goes your archetype down the drain? Why? Because enemy pulled an answer out of his A$$. At least in other RNG CCG like hearthstone you still have major strategic options, like to trade minions or attack hero, do multiple combos with cards in one turn, or punish an enemy with board clear when he over extends. Gwent had one thing, ONE. And this used to be strategy. Now that's gone too.
RVG1926
Uhm, but what you described isn't rng - it's the best case scenarios from create cards, which do happen, but also so do terrible choices, and, more often than not, completely middle of the road choices.
Also hearthstone has a huge amount of rng too..
*confused*
Uhm, but what you described isn't rng - it's the best case scenarios from create cards, which do happen, but also so do terrible choices, and, more often than not, completely middle of the road choices.
Also hearthstone has a huge amount of rng too..
*confused*
I always laugh when I read stuff like "SKILL on GWENT".
This game has nothing based on player skill, but ONLY LUCK. RNG define the fate of the outcome, and ppl speaking of skill in this game? xDDDD
I give a tip to CDPR to make this game less luck-based, let chose a few cards to play from the deck during the first draw/mulligan. That would at least set some fair chances based on the player decision and not by the case as usual.
Above R20 goes up only who gets the best draws and ridiculous fortune and keep nerding like there is no tomorrow. For example? Your opponent draws all the golds, and you draw ZERO, whole game! GG!
My gosh, that guy should go to play at casino, not on Gwent
This game has nothing based on player skill, but ONLY LUCK. RNG define the fate of the outcome, and ppl speaking of skill in this game? xDDDD
I give a tip to CDPR to make this game less luck-based, let chose a few cards to play from the deck during the first draw/mulligan. That would at least set some fair chances based on the player decision and not by the case as usual.
Above R20 goes up only who gets the best draws and ridiculous fortune and keep nerding like there is no tomorrow. For example? Your opponent draws all the golds, and you draw ZERO, whole game! GG!
My gosh, that guy should go to play at casino, not on Gwent
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