I don't normally like hacking minigames but that one actually looked like one I might be able to do lol. I hate the ones in Fallout 3/4 and the new Deus Ex games I never even touches hacking.
Any minigame gets tiresome after not very long. And making them twitch/QTE simply puts a frustrating roadblock some players have a nearly impossible time with into a game. So I agree with @Ambergeddon .
While it's true CP077's hacking isn't a genre shattering innovation it is something 99.99% of players can manage, that counts.
Ok. I know for all of those folks out there who seem a little "Down in the mouth." about the net running aspect of the game and who were expecting an entirely immersive virtual world outside of the actual game, what has been presented thus far might be a far cry from the "virtual world" of the pnp. I would like to present the following. First, we have to understand that the world of Cyberpunk that was presented way back in the 90's based off of speculative fiction from the previous decades was still in the fairly distant future. The net was a new thing still in it's infancy. Unfortunately, time would prove that the net we ended up with and the one that was speculated all of those years ago are TWO ENTIRELY different animals. Second, the change also reflects a more practical reality....SPACE. To create a fantastic world that CDPR is creating for this game is going to require a TON of memory. For them to DUPLICATE it in a fully expanded virtual cyberspace?... and you want to be able to actually play this on an entertainment system? UGH, boggles the mind. I am positive that what CDPR has in store for us is going to be mind blowing, but to be real... can we really expect all of our wildest dreams?
We were promised "two open worlds" which we understood meant the real world and cyberspace... If it meant that and they completely dumped out any kind of virtual world in exchange for an unimaginative matching hacking minigame.... yeah, that's NOT good. I'm still excited for the game but... yeah, unimaginative approach to hacking is unimaginative. And I hope INT isn't just a dumpstat for that because that would be doubly lame. The skilltree seemed a bit on the small side.
Maybe hacking the soda machine gives me tons of free soda, but netrun hacking the soda machine allows me to choose whatever flavor I want and change the speed that the cans get launched out, allowing me to turn it into a soda launching defense turret? Just a greater degree of control than previously with just the normal hacking. Cool idea?
I bet the soda puked out by the hacked soda machine is magically unusable clutter... Otherwise it might be an exploit of hacking the soda machine, grabbing all cans and selling them for profit, potentially making you rich if you hack enough soda machines or they reset/refill at some point. Then use those creds to get some cool cyberware...
Especially one that has time limit on it. Its why I sort of gave up on hacking in Deus ex HR. While I could do it, doing it with a tight timer was too stressful (and thus un-fun) to keep doing repeatedly. HR at least had a good idea of player first being hidden, and timer only starting once you are discovered in the net.
I once had an idea for hacking in a cyberpunk setting such as this: You could choose (buy) your suite of icebreaking (hacking) programs for your own use, and depending which program you used, the mini-game or UI would be different. This way you could choose the minigame you enjoyed the most (or hated the least).
I bet the soda puked out by the hacked soda machine is magically unusable clutter... Otherwise it might be an exploit of hacking the soda machine, grabbing all cans and selling them for profit, potentially making you rich if you hack enough soda machines or they reset/refill at some point. Then use those creds to get some cool cyberware...
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Especially one that has time limit on it. Its why I sort of gave up on hacking in Deus ex HR. While I could do it, doing it with a tight timer was too stressful (and thus un-fun) to keep doing repeatedly. HR at least had a good idea of player first being hidden, and timer only starting once you are discovered in the net.
I once had an idea for hacking in a cyberpunk setting such as this: You could choose (buy) your suite of icebreaking (hacking) programs for your own use, and depending which program you used, the mini-game or UI would be different. This way you could choose the minigame you enjoyed the most (or hated the least).
I don't normally like hacking minigames but that one actually looked like one I might be able to do lol. I hate the ones in Fallout 3/4 and the new Deus Ex games I never even touches hacking.
I did enjoy the appearance so far of the few hacking mini games we've seen, but I hope there is more variety, including those they have already shown. (like more hacking mini games, so it's not always the same one)
Any minigame gets tiresome after not very long. And making them twitch/QTE simply puts a frustrating roadblock some players have a nearly impossible time with into a game. So I agree with @Ambergeddon .
While it's true CP077's hacking isn't a genre shattering innovation it is something 99.99% of players can manage, that counts.
Lol I know right!? But lets go a level deeper and fix every timer related problem by just removing all timers from every part of the game (making them optional on/off switch in the menu's as a setting) = hacking suddenly becomes more accessible for everyone, and dialogue would also be less stressful as well.
I would celebrate that for sure
Imagine just hacking and having fun and having essentially unlimited time to just hack into every single part of a system and totally take it over if you put enough effort into it? That would be so cool. It's so satisfying when a game allows the player to put a bunch of effort into something and rewards them for their efforts. I don't think I ever played a game before that allows me to hack an entire system in the game world and completely take it over and become the master of it sort of. Imagine hacking the entire city, and being able to control everything if needed it. SO cool
First, we have to understand that the world of Cyberpunk that was presented way back in the 90's based off of speculative fiction from the previous decades was still in the fairly distant future. The net was a new thing still in it's infancy. Unfortunately, time would prove that the net we ended up with and the one that was speculated all of those years ago are TWO ENTIRELY different animals.
Another "minor" factor most people fail to take into account is rendering graphics.
I assume you've all seen "Toy Story"?
Did you know it took between 45 min and 30 hours to each and every frame (and movies typically run at 24 frame-per-second) in the movie? It took over 880,000 hours to render the entire movie.
So if you want to play a game measured in "frames-per-day" vice "frames-per-second" then you're a LOT more patient then I'll ever be.
Lol I know right!? But lets go a level deeper and fix every timer related problem by just removing all timers from every part of the game (making them optional on/off switch in the menu's as a setting) = hacking suddenly becomes more accessible for everyone, and dialogue would also be less stressful as well.
I would celebrate that for sure
Another "minor" factor most people fail to take into account is rendering graphics.
I assume you've all seen "Toy Story"?
Did you know it took between 45 min and 30 hours to each and every frame (and movies typically run at 24 frame-per-second) in the movie? It took over 880,000 hours to render the entire movie.
So if you want to play a game measured in "frames-per-day" vice "frames-per-second" then you're a LOT more patient then I'll ever be.
I agree that this is an important thing to note, but Toy Story 1 came out many years ago when computers were not as good as they are right now, and I'm also sure when making Toy Story 1 that they didn't render 100% of all the movie on only one computer. It's likely that those 880,000 hours (if that's what it was, I don't feel like searching it lol) were spread out across multiple separate computers and then overlapped with each other's efforts, meaning that many of those hours were happening at the same time as each other, and not in only one line from start to finish or I feel like maybe it would have taken way too many years to make the whole movie (I think).
Well, that gives me hope. You are right, but the good thing is (CDPR isn't simple) But I will say CDPR is very smart (implying advanced-ness) and they're definitely very practical and efficient, so since CDPR is really like many steps and levels up in terms of "cool-ness" I'm sure they will really surprise us. I mean, they GOT KEANU REEVES, like whoaa!
To me, that doesn't scream "oh yea it's all money money money", No, you see because Keanu Reeves is a very cool and nice guy, and he doesn't just only do stuff because of money. He thinks about it first, and he makes choices based on what his heart tells him too. So for Keanu Reeves to have accepted working with CDPR, means that he didn't just simply only like the money, but Keanu Reeves Liked CDPR enough to agree working with them. That's a very big deal, and very indicative to me of how good CDPR is, thus- giving me very good feelings about Cyberpunk2077's future as a video game. What's the biggest thing about CDPR? They CARE. That's a needle in a haystack! So I'm not worried, even though I'm really worried. Lol. (so like Not-un-negative-anti-worried, errr... somthing...?) I do have my serious concerns but also I'm not concerned.
All of that being said, and to really sum up everything, My main point to all of this is that I do strongly believe (and hope) that CDPR will allow us to netrun more than in just a few places in the story, I just have that feeling deep inside that they're gonna surprise us and I hope it will be true! I know what was said before, but... but...! I JUST GHHHHH!!!!! I JUST ahhhh, it's gotta be in there! right? I want to hack the whole game world of Cyberpunk2077 but I also want to NETRUN the whole gameworld too! Imagine if maybe hacking can only get you so much, but if you NETRUN IT...... Ooohhhhh hohohohooh..... MAYBE.... maybe that's like SUPER hacking it... Oh gosh... Imagine netrunning everything hackable... please cdpr. pls. please!
I agree that this is an important thing to note, but Toy Story 1 came out many years ago when computers were not as good as they are right now, and I'm also sure when making Toy Story 1 that they didn't render 100% of all the movie on only one computer. It's likely that those 880,000 hours (if that's what it was, I don't feel like searching it lol) were spread out across multiple separate computers and then overlapped with each other's efforts, meaning that many of those hours were happening at the same time as each other, and not in only one line from start to finish or I feel like maybe it would have taken way too many years to make the whole movie (I think).
BUT ... even the current monster graphic cards aren't "that" much better then they were ("addative" vice "multiplicative" improvements). They used specially built computers (and reinvented the "wheel" in the process) to create "Toy Story". These days virtually everyone that does rendering uses "Pixar" machines.
BUT ... even the current monster graphic cards aren't "that" much better then they were ("addative" vice "multiplicative" improvements). They used specially built computers (and reinvented the "wheel" in the process) to create "Toy Story". These days virtually everyone that does rendering uses "Pixar" machines.
Interesting. Perhaps similarly to how open world games are first designed using algorithms and fractals to generate the landscape using less storage space ( smaller file but still big landscape ) perhaps netrunning will also be fractally and algorithmically generated, maybe even randomly within a certain set of built in parameters resulting in the possibility of being able to netrun any electronic devices or networks in the entire game, without adding too much extra file size? Then we could netrun everything!
Lol I know right!? But lets go a level deeper and fix every timer related problem by just removing all timers from every part of the game (making them optional on/off switch in the menu's as a setting) = hacking suddenly becomes more accessible for everyone, and dialogue would also be less stressful as well.
I would celebrate that for sure
I disagree, but hey. To each their own, this is why a setting option to turn timers on and off would make everyone happy because they can choose exactly what they want.
It's not the first time they oversimplify mechanics. The alchemy system of TW3 was a big letdown compared to the fun and complexitiy of the one in TW1.
This. It's almost depressing how all the hype is gone. Personally, I blame CDPR and the youtube "journalists" for false promises, exaggerations of RPG mechanics, and overly stating the amount of customization and player freedom in the world.
It's starting to look now like a typical story game with a neat map. The choices are gone. Can't really role-play. Can't role-play a rich V, can't customize your one apartment's interior to suit your character (solo/netrunner/etc.), don't even think we'll be able to customize cars to the same level we could in GTA5 ala 2013.
That 15 min "gameplay reveal" did nothing for me. At this point it seems like money will be useless in the game outside cybernetics. Economy really needs to be rethought.
This. It's almost depressing how all the hype is gone. Personally, I blame CDPR and the youtube "journalists" for false promises, exaggerations of RPG mechanics, and overly stating the amount of customization and player freedom in the world.
It's starting to look now like a typical story game with a neat map. The choices are gone. Can't really role-play. Can't role-play a rich V, can't customize your one apartment's interior to suit your character (solo/netrunner/etc.), don't even think we'll be able to customize cars to the same level we could in GTA5 ala 2013.
That 15 min "gameplay reveal" did nothing for me. At this point it seems like money will be useless in the game outside cybernetics. Economy really needs to be rethought.
Whoever said we needed to copy DE:HR minigame? I agree it is very shallow, but having timer doesn't make it better. Id rather have part of hacking be puzzle solving without tight timers..
It's not the first time they oversimplify mechanics. The alchemy system of TW3 was a big letdown compared to the fun and complexitiy of the one in TW1.
The Witcher 3 drove me crazy running around for hours desperately searching for the right combination of herbs and spices and filling up my inventory to the point I felt like I was gonna choke lol. I definitely did not enjoy that part. Therese a solid difference between complexity and depth, and then just outright tedium and frustration. It took hours of effort rummaging around the forest and swimming under water collecting a million different little herbs and monster parts, it just drove me insane. To me it was a very painful grind, and the inventory didn't have enough space, but even if it did, I still never want to do that ever again.
Whoever said we needed to copy DE:HR minigame? I agree it is very shallow, but having timer doesn't make it better. Id rather have part of hacking be puzzle solving without tight timers..
Good point. I'm really hoping that I can both hack everything, but also netrun hack everything. I always sort of felt that as an expectation for some reason, but I hope it will be confirmed.
You where thinking of a sandbox game, not an RPG. it was never going to be a sandbox game. No one suggested it would be a sandbox game.
None of the things you are disappointed about have anything to do with being an RPG.
Customization heavily affects Immersion, and Immersion is a huge part of "Role-Playing" it's an RPG. The more personalized you can make the game, the more you can blend into V and assume their role and play as them- the more into the game you can get. Less customization and less options and features (which I'm worried about, but I also trust CDPR)
Less options and features and customization etc = less immersion. I find it difficult or impossible to assume the role of any video game characters in any kind of video game if I'm not able to customize and personalize them. If there is no, or very weak customization, I feel intensely detached from the character and struggle to relate to them or care about them as a character. When I lose interest in the character, I lose interest in their story, and then I lose interest in the entire game world, and the entire game itself. This is why Heavily Advanced Customization is severely important to me, regardless of the type of genre of the game, but especially for RPG's or RPG-related genre games. I can completely understand how many other people would feel the same way.
Just because it's not "sandbox" doesn't mean those things are any less valuable to the game, the character, the story, the immersion, the game world. Style matters a lot. Imagine if the entire world was a Utopia and all the worlds problems were solved, but it was all grey and dull and depressing and sad, and it was always cloudy and raining and food didn't taste like anything. That would ruin it, wouldn't it? The answer is yes. Even in a world like Cyberpunk2077, as bad as things are for the people, they still try and find food that tastes good, even as they're being shot at by dangerous corporations or gangs. They still value style and try to look good and feel good, because without those things, nothing else would be worth it.
With all that also being said, I did enjoy the appearance of the hacking in the footage CDPR allowed everyone to see, but I hope there are more options, and more ways to hack. Like multiple different kinds of mini games, as well as the ability to netrun hack into everything (for a deeper hack with better results)
Customization heavily affects Immersion, and Immersion is a huge part of "Role-Playing" it's an RPG. The more personalized you can make the game, the more you can blend into V and assume their role and play as them- the more into the game you can get. Less customization and less options and features (which I'm worried about, but I also trust CDPR)
Less options and features and customization etc = less immersion. I find it difficult or impossible to assume the role of any video game characters in any kind of video game if I'm not able to customize and personalize them. If there is no, or very weak customization, I feel intensely detached from the character and struggle to relate to them or care about them as a character. When I lose interest in the character, I lose interest in their story, and then I lose interest in the entire game world, and the entire game itself. This is why Heavily Advanced Customization is severely important to me, regardless of the type of genre of the game, but especially for RPG's or RPG-related genre games. I can completely understand how many other people would feel the same way.
Just because it's not "sandbox" doesn't mean those things are any less valuable to the game, the character, the story, the immersion, the game world. Style matters a lot. Imagine if the entire world was a Utopia and all the worlds problems were solved, but it was all grey and dull and depressing and sad, and it was always cloudy and raining and food didn't taste like anything. That would ruin it, wouldn't it? The answer is yes. Even in a world like Cyberpunk2077, as bad as things are for the people, they still try and find food that tastes good, even as they're being shot at by dangerous corporations or gangs. They still value style and try to look good and feel good, because without those things, nothing else would be worth it.
I bet the soda puked out by the hacked soda machine is magically unusable clutter... Otherwise it might be an exploit of hacking the soda machine, grabbing all cans and selling them for profit, potentially making you rich if you hack enough soda machines or they reset/refill at some point. Then use those creds to get some cool cyberware...
Well, did you ever try to sell stolen soda cans? Unless you own a shop, you would need to sell them for bulk prices (main cost for soda cans is advertisement, distribution, storage and vending machine). Now subtract money for stolen goods of dubious origin (are they fake?). Sure, its still free money - but i expect you can make money faster with missions while having a lot more fun...
Especially one that has time limit on it. Its why I sort of gave up on hacking in Deus ex HR. While I could do it, doing it with a tight timer was too stressful (and thus un-fun) to keep doing repeatedly. HR at least had a good idea of player first being hidden, and timer only starting once you are discovered in the net.
In Deus Ex - as soon as you realize you can start multiple actions at the same time (hack new nodes and foritify owned nodes) and get some upgrades, its really trivial. However, not the most fun activity since there is only money and hacking items to be gained.
in the Cyberpunk 2077 demo I liked in the shown minigame, especially the need to decide on a goal or a goal combo - its impossible to get all bonus missions. Take ways to simplify the mission (track officers, slow cameras) vs. gaining extra stuff like interesting data OR (not and) a hidden program. However I'm glad they have many minigames for hacking (depending on opponent/corp) - this game all game would get old soon.
I once had an idea for hacking in a cyberpunk setting such as this: You could choose (buy) your suite of icebreaking (hacking) programs for your own use, and depending which program you used, the mini-game or UI would be different. This way you could choose the minigame you enjoyed the most (or hated the least).
There are apparently different programs you can buy or unlock via perks (or gain via hacking), but they didn't tell us the specifics. If i understand it correctly, those minigames are rare, like 1/mission - you do them to gain basic access, but as soon as you have this access, your further hacking actions are limited by skill, programs and context - but not locked by minigames.
