The General Videogame Thread

[Garrison72]

Judging by the main thread, I wonder why not so many here are interested in Underworld Ascendant? It feels like it should be appealing to a major percentage of the Witcher community.

I'm not an old school RPG fan, per se. I actually never played any of those games. Not saying I won't, but there it is. Also, I'm not convinced rekindling the games of yore is a step forward. Warren Spector and his vision of Mickey...yeah. Not encouraging. These guys have been out of the loop a very long time.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

@slimgrin : It doesn't sound like they want to simply clone the old games. They just draw on the world. But now they have technical means to do something new but preserving the feeling of the original depth. At least that's how I understood their explanation. They said explicitly, they aren't scared of experimenting, which to me sounds like they are interested in expanding the genre, rather than in remaking old titles. And some in the team there participated in quite ground breaking titles like Deus Ex, Bioshock and others.

In that sense I'd expect many of the Witcher fans to be interested. I.e. I don't see it as old school RPG clone, but as an RPG with old school quality values (which Witcher games also share).

Can't say anything about Warren Spector really, I've never heard about him until this project. But judging by Deus Ex, he can create something interesting.

---------- Updated at 07:13 AM ----------

Here is their crew: http://www.underworldascendant.com/the-game/team.php

They surely don't look like amateurs or anything out of the loop.

 

[ReptilePZ]

So, I was watching a stream of The Order 1886 last night and it was... not terrible. It's not a particularly good video game, but it's a competent one. Very much on-rails with lots of cutscenes and QTEs in there as well, obviously, but other than that it was okay. I was actually surprised by the amount of variety in the different levels. There seems to always be a new weapon or mechanic used, alongside the standard cover shooting.

Admittedly, I didn't watch the full playthrough, only got to 2-3 hours in, so it's possible that the other half (or third) of the game stops keeping things fresh. The setting is quite interesting, it's actually based on the Knights of the Round Table in that "Hansel & Gretel: Witch Hunters" kind of way. The story itself is nothing special, though. The game does look very nice and the VA is superb, it's a cool tech demo and can be quite enjoyable, if you don't mind very rail-roaded, bare-bones gameplay.

 

[eskiMoe]

lol.

 

[freakie1one]

Judging by the main thread, I wonder why not so many here are interested in Underworld Ascendant? It feels like it should be appealing to a major percentage of the Witcher community.

I answered this in the other thread... people like and support proven games. The Witcher 1 had a very small following before it was released. People didn't start supporting it until post release or until TW2 was released. This is the same reason almost noone on these forums is supporting Sui Generis despite it being quite innovative and revolutionizing RPG's. People usually only hop on the bandwagon once something is already proven and they avoid games that promise innovation or experimentation.

 

[Garrison72]

LMAO, that is hilarious. You certainly can't knock the visuals in The Order. I never thought next gen consoles would reach that level and these guys did it right in the beginning of the cycle.

 

[AutumnalWanderer]

Was it before?

 

[shinobi2u]

Alright, so after playing through The Order, here are some candid thoughts about it:

1) It is without a doubt a very gorgeous game and the framerate remained stable the entire time.
2) It doesn't bring anything new to the table.
3) The attention to detail and environment are fantastic, however, it is very limited in scope and very much linear.
4) The gameplay elements are solid, however, each element is done better in other games that focus on that element. The game comes off with a sense of identity crisis at times as it switches up the gameplay style at times and they don't feel like they connect.
5) Story blue balls you at the end and doesn't answer all of the questions. It wasn't mind-blowing, but it was interesting.
6) Beat it on hard difficulty in about 10 hours.
7) Final boss segment was a letdown.
8 ) It is very, very cinematic heavy. It can certainly feel like it is just there to move you from one shooting gallery to the next.
9) The lycans were very underutilized and were sadly the weakest aspect of the game when facing off against them.
10) I enjoyed the game, but was not blown away - it excels in a couple places, but is very average for others. Worth a playthrough, but not a must buy in my opinion.

 

[Sephira]

Alright, so after playing through The Order, here are some candid thoughts about it:

1) It is without a doubt a very gorgeous game and the framerate remained stable the entire time.
2) It doesn't bring anything new to the table.
3) The attention to detail and environment are fantastic, however, it is very limited in scope and very much linear.
4) The gameplay elements are solid, however, each element is done better in other games that focus on that element. The game comes off with a sense of identity crisis at times as it switches up the gameplay style at times and they don't feel like they connect.
5) Story blue balls you at the end and doesn't answer all of the questions. It wasn't mind-blowing, but it was interesting.
6) Beat it on hard difficulty in about 10 hours.
7) Final boss segment was a letdown.
8 ) It is very, very cinematic heavy. It can certainly feel like it is just there to move you from one shooting gallery to the next.
9) The lycans were very underutilized and were sadly the weakest aspect of the game when facing off against them.
10) I enjoyed the game, but was not blown away - it excels in a couple places, but is very average for others. Worth a playthrough, but not a must buy in my opinion.

Thank you for sharing, I'm collecting both positive, negative, and "so and so" impressions about this game, out of curiosity. After seeing gameplay from E3 it ceased to draw my attention, so I wanna know how it's really like, avoiding mocking reviews.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

I answered this in the other thread... people like and support proven games. The Witcher 1 had a very small following before it was released. People didn't start supporting it until post release or until TW2 was released. This is the same reason almost noone on these forums is supporting Sui Generis despite it being quite innovative and revolutionizing RPG's. People usually only hop on the bandwagon once something is already proven and they avoid games that promise innovation or experimentation.

I'd expect that from the mass market crowd, yes. Not so much from the Witcher community

 

[freakie1one]

I'd expect that from the mass market crowd, yes. Not so much from the Witcher community

Most of the Witcher community followed what I previously described. How many people on this forum were here before TW1 was released and supported the game back then? I was one such person and I remember trying to tell people about TW1 (before it was released) which mostly fell on deaf ears. People said the same things they are saying about Sui Generis... "sounds like an interesting concept but I doubt it'll make a good game"... etc. Then most of those same people hopped on board and sang praises about TW1 after the game was released like it was some new revelation.

 

[Gilrond-i-Virdan]

Witcher games are somewhat out of the standard, so in my perspective they attract those who look for more depth in RPGs, and such people tend to analyze them not from mass market perspective, but from the roleplaying one. Then again, it's just my guess.

 

[shinobi2u]

So sad this got killed just because it was merely projected that it wouldn't meet a sales quota, especially given how far along this seems to be. Definitely seems to have a lot of similar aspects when compared to Shadow of Mordor.

More details can be seen here.

 

[AutumnalWanderer]

So sad this got killed just because it was merely projected that it wouldn't meet a sales quota, especially given how far along this seems to be. Definitely seems to have a lot of similar aspects when compared to Shadow of Mordor.

More details can be seen here.

I posted it before your The Order thoughts

 

[CostinRaz]

Square Enix, YOU FUCKS.

 

[Glaroug.531]

Alright, so after playing through The Order, here are some candid thoughts about it:

Spoiler

1) It is without a doubt a very gorgeous game and the framerate remained stable the entire time.
2) It doesn't bring anything new to the table.
3) The attention to detail and environment are fantastic, however, it is very limited in scope and very much linear.
4) The gameplay elements are solid, however, each element is done better in other games that focus on that element. The game comes off with a sense of identity crisis at times as it switches up the gameplay style at times and they don't feel like they connect.
5) Story blue balls you at the end and doesn't answer all of the questions. It wasn't mind-blowing, but it was interesting.
6) Beat it on hard difficulty in about 10 hours.
7) Final boss segment was a letdown.
8 ) It is very, very cinematic heavy. It can certainly feel like it is just there to move you from one shooting gallery to the next.
9) The lycans were very underutilized and were sadly the weakest aspect of the game when facing off against them.
10) I enjoyed the game, but was not blown away - it excels in a couple places, but is very average for others. Worth a playthrough, but not a must buy in my opinion.

Hmm...sounds like a big Hollywood summer blockbuster where the story is lackluster but the special effects are top notch

Its funny to me how the word "cinematic" has such strong negative connotations now. I was attracted to the Witcher because of its strong and wonderful cinematic experience :yes

 

[EliHarel]

@freakie1one you're almost sounding a bit bitter, there.

I haven't seen all the reactions you received about Sui Generis here, but still, I've yet to see a big number of people say "nice concept, but I have my doubts". I can't even recall one comment of the sort. Most of the comments I've seen were "nice concept, I'll see how it develops", and that's it. Then again, it's much more important to you so I imagine your notice of different comments is sharper than mine.

As for why the witcher community doesn't discover as much interest in this or that innovative title, who can say? People can like TW for a big number of reasons, I doubt there's one thing that's holding us all here with this franchise.

 

[freakie1one]

@freakie1one you're almost sounding a bit bitter, there.

I haven't seen all the reactions you received about Sui Generis here, but still, I've yet to see a big number of people say "nice concept, but I have my doubts". I can't even recall one comment of the sort. Most of the comments I've seen were "nice concept, I'll see how it develops", and that's it. Then again, it's much more important to you so I imagine your notice of different comments is sharper than mine.

As for why the witcher community doesn't discover as much interest in this or that innovative title, who can say? People can like TW for a big number of reasons, I doubt there's one thing that's holding us all here with this franchise.

Hmm, I suppose I did come off a bit more severe than was my intention. I've just seen this happening for many years so I no longer find it to be shocking or surprising; now it seems to be the norm.

Old school gaming was all about pushing the limits, trying new things, innovation, etc. Nowadays they teach game design students that new = bad and to avoid creativity so they don't alienate people. Basically, improve graphics while spoon-feeding the same old thing over and over. I suppose this is why I have a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth when people support this trend.

 

[Agent_Bleu]

Hmm, I suppose I did come off a bit more severe than was my intention. I've just seen this happening for many years so I no longer find it to be shocking or surprising; now it seems to be the norm.

Old school gaming was all about pushing the limits, trying new things, innovation, etc. Nowadays they teach game design students that new = bad and to avoid creativity so they don't alienate people. Basically, improve graphics while spoon-feeding the same old thing over and over. I suppose this is why I have a somewhat bitter taste in my mouth when people support this trend.

I think that with you at least I can engage in a rational discussion. So I have a couple of questions:

The reason why, though I find Sui Generis overarching design principles inventive and quite thrilling, I'm not enthused by it is aesthetic. I am instantly put off by the game's aesthetics. Can you not see how that might irrevocably alienate someone? Consider that this isn't about bleeding edge 3D graphics. I absolutely love Limbo's 2D monochromatic but highly moody take. So do you consider aesthetics to be legitimate grounds on which to shun a particular game? Following up on @eliharel 's theme, you appear to think there are universal considerations all gamers should pounder when evaluating any video game, but perhaps I got the wrong impression.

Second question, where did you get the idea game design students are being routinely incentivized to not be creative? Is that your own personal experience, or the current trend across the industry? Because looking at Kickstarter and what indie developers are outputting, I see a lot of leftfield ideas coming to fruition.

 

[freakie1one]

I think that with you at least I can engage in a rational discussion. So I have a couple of questions:

The reason that though I find Sui Generis overarching design principles inventive and quite thrilling, is aesthetic. I am instantly put off by the game's aesthetics. Can you not see how that might irrevocably alienate someone? Consider that this isn't about bleeding edge 3D graphics. I absolutely love Limb0's 2D, monochromatic but highly moody take. So do you consider aesthetics to be legitimate grounds on which to shun a particular game? You appear to think there are universal considerations all gamers should pounder when evaluating any video game, but I might have the wrong impression.

Second question, where did you get the idea game design students are being routinely disincentivized to not be creative? Is that your personal experience, the current trend across the industry? Because looking at Kickstarter and what indie developers are outputting, I see a lot of leftfield ideas coming to fruition.

I don't expect everyone to universally like or dislike the same games or aspects of games. Of course everyone has their own opinions, likes and dislikes. Your opinion about Sui Generis is just as valid as mine or anyone else's; not liking the aesthetics is a legitimate complaint and whether or not that would inhibit your ability to enjoy the game is up to you to decide (though if you're basing this off of the prototype videos shown during the Kickstarter campaign I'd urge you to reconsider since drastic improvements have been made to the visual aspects of the game).

What was leaving a bitter taste in my mouth is how it has become acceptable to wrap a turd in a pretty bow and sell it as the newest and greatest thing. I think this is a fairly shallow approach to game design and it reminds me of what Hollywood has done to create the cookie cutter movie mold; all visuals with little substance. I hate to see gaming follow the same downward spiral.

I got the idea about game design students by both firsthand and secondhand experience. Sixteen years ago I was planning on making a career of being a game programmer and while attending college I was repeatedly told to keep innovation to a minimum and to follow the trends that sell well. Innovation and creativity was risky whereas keeping things simple and generic was safe since it was already a proven formula. Borrowing as many ideas as possible from other successful games was highly encouraged and conformity was a necessity in order to appeal to publishers.

A friend of mine went to college several years later to become a game 3D artist/modeler. After graduating he became a security guard because he lost all interest in game design after going through a similar experience as me. This is why I am glad to see Kickstarter and other methods of funding games which were not possible until recently. Removing the publisher from dictating what a game can or cannot be allows much more artistic freedom, innovation and creativity; hopefully this will help to reverse the stagnation gaming has seen during the past decade and a half.