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I meant to post this in the my other thread that got closed due to waifu wars. Not trying to incite another here, just want to talk about a specific point related to it.
It was related to Geralt interactions, and lack of game interactivity, when meeting Yen in Skellige. While it may be just lazy writing, I did notice a difference in their interactions past last-wish.
I'm not talking about the love you/magic is gone part, but the others. The player can still be affectionate if he so desires, agree with her plans, etc. But he can also be more confrontational about it, confront her beliefs, etc, even when she is romanced.
Could the earlier interactions, or lack thereof, be a way to show us the effect the djin spell was having on Geralt? They even have a conversation about this during her quest, with Geralt's "I've never been able to say no to you." and Yen saying, "Now you can."
Thoughts?
It was related to Geralt interactions, and lack of game interactivity, when meeting Yen in Skellige. While it may be just lazy writing, I did notice a difference in their interactions past last-wish.
I'm not talking about the love you/magic is gone part, but the others. The player can still be affectionate if he so desires, agree with her plans, etc. But he can also be more confrontational about it, confront her beliefs, etc, even when she is romanced.
Could the earlier interactions, or lack thereof, be a way to show us the effect the djin spell was having on Geralt? They even have a conversation about this during her quest, with Geralt's "I've never been able to say no to you." and Yen saying, "Now you can."
Thoughts?
Makes sense to me when you explore dialogue in the game. She knows who he's with, she's busy searching for Ciri and she doesn't have a reason to believe he ever forgot about her.
Ciri takes precedence for her, same for Geralt. If anything she was hurt Geralt seemed to be enjoying his new life with Triss.
Yeah i don't think that explains it either. I think the reason is far more buried in Yen's character and the nature of the Geralt/Yen relationship dynamic.
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I think their decision to go down the route they went in regards the Djinn wish(a cause of the love between them even if it's possible such a bond could have happened naturally too) meant that they then made the design decision to implement the forced flirting, which they thought would establish the relationship for newcomers.
Well, i could argue that nobody (except the lodge, they already knew where she is) is looking for her until Geralt regains his memories, so that's even more strange that your close friends don't even mention her or Ciri until you do
I know the transition from W2 to W3 isn't really good, but let me try to explain it in persona of Yennefer:
"I don't know who i am and i was inprisoned by those Nilfgaardians for whatever reason."
"Apparently i am somewhat valuable to them, because otherwise they would have killed me already. Still can't remember a thing."
"It looks like this Emhyr guy wants something from me, so he sends sorcerers to help me regaining my memory, it works bit for bit."
"After a while i finally know again who i am and where i am, but where is Geralt? Is he still with the Wild Hunt? I need to get out of here."
"Emhyr proposed to me that he frees me on the condition to find Ciri, apprently she is back and is in great danger. I have to get out of here, it doesn't matter how, i need to get out of here, NOW."
"After agreeing to Emhyr's proposal, i was handled much more intel about the world situation and the possible whereabouts of Ciri, also where the heck Geralt is. It looks like he didn't even bother to look for me, instead he is having a great time with Triss...*insert dwarven swear words here*"
"So Geralt is with her, while Ciri is in danger? Fuck Geralt and that witch, Ciri is more important."
"Despite all the intel and my magic, i just can't locate her, even other sorceresses i contacted (lodge) haven't found her or have any lead of her."
"I need to contact Geralt, i have no idea why he is still bothering in the Pontar Valley, but i need him, Ciri needs him."
=> She writes him the letter.
I know, that's not perfect, but i am not paid to write stories, just to make some sense out of it
I would also say that her ego doesn't let her write him asap, just like Geralt in the books. Instead of asking Yennefer directly about Ciri, he writes Triss, only to realize later that he still need Yennefer's help, even Triss urged him to do that.
I think this here is exactly the opposite now, Yennefer needs help, but before she asks Geralt, she rather asks others like the lodge, only to realize later that she still need Geralt's help, maybe even Emhyr urged her to do that.
I think that was a bad move, to make the wish responsible for their relationship and their interactions. The wish was never about that, it was to protect her life from the djinn, not to bind her physical to him or even influence their behaviour to each other.
As i said already here or in other threads the wish isn't even mentioned later on in the books anymore, because the "effect" of the wish was never to influence their relationship. It was a typical fate thing, which is quite usual in the Witcher universe.
Maybe the easiest way to understand that fate thing is, if you take Ciri into consideration:
Ciri was Geralt's fated child and so is Yennefer his fated woman, both times by his doings and only by his doings.
If you agree in the Last Wish that nothing has changed, it just confirms that the wish never influenced it, it is "lore-friendly", but if you disagree, well
About confronting her, i thought the quest in the Garden of Freya was already quite fiery. Depending on what you choose to say, you can either doubt everything she does, resulting in a kinda pissed off Yennefer, or trust her and go with the flow.
E.g. you can try to lecture her about black magic and she doesn't like it at all, she isn't a child, as if she didn't know already that it is risky, but it is for the sake of Ciri and she can't understand that Geralt is hesitating for her sake, even though i would like to remind you how many people you already killed up to this point in this game, just saying.
At the end of this quest, she asks you for a favor (which begins The Last Wish). If you tell her to meet her there asap, she is really thankful that you helped her so far "Geralt, you know me. I'm rare to praise, but when i do, it is sincere."
But if you tell her that you still have other things to do, she says "Well, if you must, you must. I shall wait for you in Larvik for a time. If you don't make it, we'll meet in Vizima."
She asks him for help, not command it. She would even accept that you don't help her.
You can also tell her that you won't report anything to Emhyr, what does she say to that? "Fine...I can't force you."
Or at the mourning ceremony you can assure her to not drink any alcohol to have a clear mind, but you can still drink until you are quite drunk anyway and she gets angry with you because of that.
I think CDPR tried to reflect their relationship from the books, showing a quick and brief iteration of it in the games with the "Last Wish" as turning point.
I think that was a bad move, to make the wish responsible for their relationship and their interactions. The wish was never about that, it was to protect her life from the djinn, not to bind her physical to him or even influence their behaviour to each other.
As i said already here or in other threads the wish isn't even mentioned later on in the books anymore, because the "effect" of the wish was never to influence their relationship. It was a typical fate thing, which is quite usual in the Witcher universe.
Maybe the easiest way to understand that fate thing is, if you take Ciri into consideration:
Ciri was Geralt's fated child and so is Yennefer his fated woman, both times by his doings and only by his doings.
If you agree in the Last Wish that nothing has changed, it just confirms that the wish never influenced it, it is "lore-friendly", but if you disagree, well
About confronting her, i thought the quest in the Garden of Freya was already quite fiery. Depending on what you choose to say, you can either doubt everything she does, resulting in a kinda pissed off Yennefer, or trust her and go with the flow.
E.g. you can try to lecture her about black magic and she doesn't like it at all, she isn't a child, as if she didn't know already that it is risky, but it is for the sake of Ciri and she can't understand that Geralt is hesitating for her sake, even though i would like to remind you how many people you already killed up to this point in this game, just saying.
At the end of this quest, she asks you for a favor (which begins The Last Wish). If you tell her to meet her there asap, she is really thankful that you helped her so far "Geralt, you know me. I'm rare to praise, but when i do, it is sincere."
But if you tell her that you still have other things to do, she says "Well, if you must, you must. I shall wait for you in Larvik for a time. If you don't make it, we'll meet in Vizima."
She asks him for help, not command it. She would even accept that you don't help her.
You can also tell her that you won't report anything to Emhyr, what does she say to that? "Fine...I can't force you."
Or at the mourning ceremony you can assure her to not drink any alcohol to have a clear mind, but you can still drink until you are quite drunk anyway and she gets angry with you because of that.
I think CDPR tried to reflect their relationship from the books, showing a quick and brief iteration of it in the games with the "Last Wish" as turning point.
You raise interesting points. From what I understand, you can't refuse her plans when in Main Quests, but you can do so on her sidequest. Maybe her personality and our interactions are victims to the devs not wanting to craft alternative scenarios. (like they did with Triss and Menge) Who knows...
Yes, you can drink but Geralt auto goes for a toast in her health so idk which option is better. This is all pre wish though, the other one about visiting the emperor happens afterwards.
Speaking of the wish itself, at least in my mind, Geralt is still in love with her regardless of player choice. Then the player can decide to say so or break things with her, either because they want to keep Triss or because they want to go solo. Tbh, more options would have been nice there.
Now that I've moved on from the game, my thoughts about the whole Yen stuff have become more neutral. And I've realized there are many instances that make her character very appealing. I wish though, that we had been given more options when interacting with her not so nice aspects. Maybe an EE will come along and do something about it.
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funny dialogue from book (Triss and Yenn argue about Geralt):
'Please,' Yennefer looked at she. 'What strange sounds float from you beauteous breast, Triss. Ciri, go out and see what lies ahead.'
Triss averted her face, determined not to give Yennefer any excuse. She is not expect it to work. For a long time she had been sensing Yennefer's anger and aggression growing stronger as they approached Rivia.
'You, Triss,' Yennefer mischievously insisted, 'do not blush, do not sigh, do not drool or wiggle around in your saddle. Or is it that you think because I agreed to your request that I want to have you with us? That I was interested in seeing you spend a meeting with an old love? Ciri, I asked you to go on ahead. The two of us need to talk!'
'It is not a discussion, it is a lecture,' Ciri dared to argue, but under the threatening glare from violet eyes, she immediately recoiled, clucked and galloped off on Kelpie on the road ahead.
'You're not going to meet a loved one, Triss,' Yennefer continued. 'I am not so noble or stupid enough to give you the opportunity, or him the temptation. But just for today. I could not deny myself the sweet satisfaction. He knows what role you play as a member of the Lodge. He will thank you for that with his famous look. And I'll be looking at your quivering lips and trembling hands, I will listen to your lame apologies and excuses. And you know what, Triss? I will faint with delight.'
'I knew,' Triss grunted. 'That you would not forget, that you would take your revenge. I agreed to this, because I was actually at fault. But one thing I must tell you, Yennefer. Do not count too much on fainting. He knows how to forgive.'
'He knows what was done to him, of course,' Yennefer narrowed her eyes. 'But he will never forgive you for what was done to Ciri. And me.'
'It is possible,' Triss swallowed. 'He may not forgive. Especially if you insist. But he won't fly into a rage. He won't lower himself like that.'
Yennefer flicked her horse with her whip in anger. The animal whinnied and leapt and the sorceress swayed in her saddle.
'Enough talk,' she snapped. 'more humility, you smug viper! He is my man, mine and only mine! Do you understand? You have to stop talking about him, to stop thinking about him, you have to stop admiring his noble character... As of right now, right now! Oh I want to grab you by your matted red hair...'
'Try it!' screamed Triss. 'Just try it, you vindictive bitch and I'll scratch out your eyes!' I...'
Something like that would be welcome in tw3...i think
'Please,' Yennefer looked at she. 'What strange sounds float from you beauteous breast, Triss. Ciri, go out and see what lies ahead.'
Triss averted her face, determined not to give Yennefer any excuse. She is not expect it to work. For a long time she had been sensing Yennefer's anger and aggression growing stronger as they approached Rivia.
'You, Triss,' Yennefer mischievously insisted, 'do not blush, do not sigh, do not drool or wiggle around in your saddle. Or is it that you think because I agreed to your request that I want to have you with us? That I was interested in seeing you spend a meeting with an old love? Ciri, I asked you to go on ahead. The two of us need to talk!'
'It is not a discussion, it is a lecture,' Ciri dared to argue, but under the threatening glare from violet eyes, she immediately recoiled, clucked and galloped off on Kelpie on the road ahead.
'You're not going to meet a loved one, Triss,' Yennefer continued. 'I am not so noble or stupid enough to give you the opportunity, or him the temptation. But just for today. I could not deny myself the sweet satisfaction. He knows what role you play as a member of the Lodge. He will thank you for that with his famous look. And I'll be looking at your quivering lips and trembling hands, I will listen to your lame apologies and excuses. And you know what, Triss? I will faint with delight.'
'I knew,' Triss grunted. 'That you would not forget, that you would take your revenge. I agreed to this, because I was actually at fault. But one thing I must tell you, Yennefer. Do not count too much on fainting. He knows how to forgive.'
'He knows what was done to him, of course,' Yennefer narrowed her eyes. 'But he will never forgive you for what was done to Ciri. And me.'
'It is possible,' Triss swallowed. 'He may not forgive. Especially if you insist. But he won't fly into a rage. He won't lower himself like that.'
Yennefer flicked her horse with her whip in anger. The animal whinnied and leapt and the sorceress swayed in her saddle.
'Enough talk,' she snapped. 'more humility, you smug viper! He is my man, mine and only mine! Do you understand? You have to stop talking about him, to stop thinking about him, you have to stop admiring his noble character... As of right now, right now! Oh I want to grab you by your matted red hair...'
'Try it!' screamed Triss. 'Just try it, you vindictive bitch and I'll scratch out your eyes!' I...'
Something like that would be welcome in tw3...i think
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funny dialogue from book (Triss and Yenn argue about Geralt):
'Please,' Yennefer looked at she. 'What strange sounds float from you beauteous breast, Triss. Ciri, go out and see what lies ahead.'
Triss averted her face, determined not to give Yennefer any excuse. She is not expect it to work. For a long time she had been sensing Yennefer's anger and aggression growing stronger as they approached Rivia.
'You, Triss,' Yennefer mischievously insisted, 'do not blush, do not sigh, do not drool or wiggle around in your saddle. Or is it that you think because I agreed to your request that I want to have you with us? That I was interested in seeing you spend a meeting with an old love? Ciri, I asked you to go on ahead. The two of us need to talk!'
'It is not a discussion, it is a lecture,' Ciri dared to argue, but under the threatening glare from violet eyes, she immediately recoiled, clucked and galloped off on Kelpie on the road ahead.
'You're not going to meet a loved one, Triss,' Yennefer continued. 'I am not so noble or stupid enough to give you the opportunity, or him the temptation. But just for today. I could not deny myself the sweet satisfaction. He knows what role you play as a member of the Lodge. He will thank you for that with his famous look. And I'll be looking at your quivering lips and trembling hands, I will listen to your lame apologies and excuses. And you know what, Triss? I will faint with delight.'
'I knew,' Triss grunted. 'That you would not forget, that you would take your revenge. I agreed to this, because I was actually at fault. But one thing I must tell you, Yennefer. Do not count too much on fainting. He knows how to forgive.'
'He knows what was done to him, of course,' Yennefer narrowed her eyes. 'But he will never forgive you for what was done to Ciri. And me.'
'It is possible,' Triss swallowed. 'He may not forgive. Especially if you insist. But he won't fly into a rage. He won't lower himself like that.'
Yennefer flicked her horse with her whip in anger. The animal whinnied and leapt and the sorceress swayed in her saddle.
'Enough talk,' she snapped. 'more humility, you smug viper! He is my man, mine and only mine! Do you understand? You have to stop talking about him, to stop thinking about him, you have to stop admiring his noble character... As of right now, right now! Oh I want to grab you by your matted red hair...'
'Try it!' screamed Triss. 'Just try it, you vindictive bitch and I'll scratch out your eyes!' I...'
Something like that would be welcome in tw3...i think
Yeah a confrontation between the two is something that was very much needed. Way it currently stands only threesome variant gets any confrontation or resolution between the 2 women.
About that letter and why it makes book readers chuckle:
Blood of Elves
Now compare it with the ingame letter:
Blood of Elves
Geralt extracted another letter from his bag, one he had recently received from a strange courier. He had already read it about thirty times.
Dear friend . . .
The witcher swore quietly, looking at the sharp, angular, even runes drawn with energetic sweeps of the pen, faultlessly reflecting the author's mood. He felt once again the desire to try to bite his own backside in fury. When he was writing to the enchantress a month ago he had spent two nights in a row contemplating how best to begin. Finally, he had decided on 'Dear friend'. Now he had his just deserts.
Dear friend, your unexpected letter – which I received not quite three years after we last saw each other – has given me much joy. My joy is all the greater as various rumours have been circulating about your sudden and violent death. It is a good thing that you have decided to disclaim them by writing to me; it is a good thing, too, that you are doing so so soon. From your letter it appears that you have lived a peaceful, wonderfully boring life, devoid of all sensation. These days such a life is a real privilege, dear friend, and I am happy that you have managed to achieve it.
I was touched by the sudden concern which you deigned to show as to my health, dear friend. I hasten with the news that, yes, I now feel well; the period of indisposition is behind me, I have dealt with the difficulties, the description of which I shall not bore you with.
It worries and troubles me very much that the unexpected present you received from Fate brings you worries. Your supposition that this requires professional help is absolutely correct. Although your description of the difficulty – quite understandably – is enigmatic, I am sure I know the Source of the problem. And I agree with youropinion that the help of yet another magician is absolutely necessary. I feel honoured to be the second to whom you turn. What have I done to deserve to be so high on your list?
Rest assured, my dear friend; and if you had the intention of supplicating the help of additional magicians, abandon it because there is no need. I leave without delay, and go to the place which you indicated in an oblique yet, to me, understandable way. It goes without saying that I leave in absolute secrecy and with great caution. I will surmise the nature of the trouble on the spot and willdo all that is in my power to calm the gushing source. I shall try, in so doing, not to appear any worse than other ladies to whom you have turned, are turning or usually turn with your supplications. I am, after all, your dear friend. Your valuable friendship is too important to me to disappoint you, dear friend.
Should you, in the next few years, wish to write to me, do not hesitate for a moment. Your letters invariably give me boundless pleasure.
Your friend
Yennefer
The letter smelled of lilac and gooseberries.
Geralt cursed.
Dear friend . . .
The witcher swore quietly, looking at the sharp, angular, even runes drawn with energetic sweeps of the pen, faultlessly reflecting the author's mood. He felt once again the desire to try to bite his own backside in fury. When he was writing to the enchantress a month ago he had spent two nights in a row contemplating how best to begin. Finally, he had decided on 'Dear friend'. Now he had his just deserts.
Dear friend, your unexpected letter – which I received not quite three years after we last saw each other – has given me much joy. My joy is all the greater as various rumours have been circulating about your sudden and violent death. It is a good thing that you have decided to disclaim them by writing to me; it is a good thing, too, that you are doing so so soon. From your letter it appears that you have lived a peaceful, wonderfully boring life, devoid of all sensation. These days such a life is a real privilege, dear friend, and I am happy that you have managed to achieve it.
I was touched by the sudden concern which you deigned to show as to my health, dear friend. I hasten with the news that, yes, I now feel well; the period of indisposition is behind me, I have dealt with the difficulties, the description of which I shall not bore you with.
It worries and troubles me very much that the unexpected present you received from Fate brings you worries. Your supposition that this requires professional help is absolutely correct. Although your description of the difficulty – quite understandably – is enigmatic, I am sure I know the Source of the problem. And I agree with youropinion that the help of yet another magician is absolutely necessary. I feel honoured to be the second to whom you turn. What have I done to deserve to be so high on your list?
Rest assured, my dear friend; and if you had the intention of supplicating the help of additional magicians, abandon it because there is no need. I leave without delay, and go to the place which you indicated in an oblique yet, to me, understandable way. It goes without saying that I leave in absolute secrecy and with great caution. I will surmise the nature of the trouble on the spot and willdo all that is in my power to calm the gushing source. I shall try, in so doing, not to appear any worse than other ladies to whom you have turned, are turning or usually turn with your supplications. I am, after all, your dear friend. Your valuable friendship is too important to me to disappoint you, dear friend.
Should you, in the next few years, wish to write to me, do not hesitate for a moment. Your letters invariably give me boundless pleasure.
Your friend
Yennefer
The letter smelled of lilac and gooseberries.
Geralt cursed.
Now compare it with the ingame letter:
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Because Yennefer was extraordinarily *****ed off at Geralt the first time she sent the "friend" letter since he disappeared for THREE YEARS and then when he needed a mage, went to TRISS first.
The second letter is either ironic or showing how mad she is about finding out that he's with Triss...AGAIN.
Triss wasn't that amused to learn she was the number-two choice, which is understandable. She has a lot of inner monologues at that part of the books, showing a lot of her real thoughts, which was really insightful.
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Geralt was also quite a dick to be honest. He was too coward to ask Yennefer directly, so he wrote Triss instead. Knowing that she had developed more than just a friendly feeling for him, but it was easier for him to decline Triss' advances, play dumb and hurt her feelings than facing Yennefer.
Triss even wonders why he asked her and not Yennefer, making her even some hopes, just to crush them a bit later...not cool Geralt.
Geralt is like, "You're my favorite mistake, Triss."
Don't Sheryll Crow her, dude!
lol
If someone is interested about the conversation between Triss and Geralt from the Blood of Elves you can read it here:
“Geralt, this is a serious matter. The girl is an exceptionally powerful medium. I don’t know what or who she is contacting, but I think there are no limits to her connection. Something wants to take possession of her. Something which is too powerful for me. I am afraid for her. Another trance could end in mental illness. I have no control over it, don’t know how to, can’t… If it proved necessary, I would not be able to block or suppress her powers; I would not even be capable, if there were no other option, of permanently extinguishing them. You have to get help from another magician. A more gifted one. More experienced. You know who I’m talking about.”
“I do.” He turned his head away, clenched his lips.
“Don’t resist. Don’t defend yourself. I can guess why you turned to me rather than her. Overcome your pride, crush your rancour and obstinacy. There is no point to it, you’ll torture yourself to death. And you are risking Ciri’s health and life in the process. Another trance is liable to be more dangerous to her than the Trial of Grasses. Ask Yennefer for help, Geralt.”
“And you, Triss?”
“What about me?” She swallowed with difficulty. “I’m not important. I let you down. I let you down… in everything. I was… I was your mistake. Nothing more.”
“Mistakes,” he said with effort, “are also important to me. I don’t cross them out of my life, or memory. And I never blame others for them. You are important to me, Triss, and always will be. You never let me down. Never. Believe me.”
She remained silent a long while.
“I will stay until spring,” she said finally, struggling against her shaking voice. “I will stay with Ciri… I will watch over her. Day and night. I will be with her day and night. And when spring is here… when spring is here we will take her to Melitele’s Temple in Ellander. The thing that wants to possess her might not be able to reach her in the temple. And then you will ask Yennefer for help.”
“All right, Triss. Thank you.”
“Geralt?”
“Yes.”
“Ciri said something else, didn’t she? Something only you heard. Tell me what it was.”
“No,” he protested and his voice quivered. “No, Triss.”
“Please.”
“She wasn’t speaking to me.”
“I know. She was speaking to me. Tell me, please.”
“After coming to… When I picked her up… She whispered: ‘Forget about him. Don’t torture him.’”
“I won’t,” she said quietly. “But I can’t forget. Forgive me.”
“I am the one who ought to be asking for forgiveness. And not only asking you.”
“You love her that much,” she stated, not asking.
“That much,” he admitted in a whisper after a long moment of silence.
“I do.” He turned his head away, clenched his lips.
“Don’t resist. Don’t defend yourself. I can guess why you turned to me rather than her. Overcome your pride, crush your rancour and obstinacy. There is no point to it, you’ll torture yourself to death. And you are risking Ciri’s health and life in the process. Another trance is liable to be more dangerous to her than the Trial of Grasses. Ask Yennefer for help, Geralt.”
“And you, Triss?”
“What about me?” She swallowed with difficulty. “I’m not important. I let you down. I let you down… in everything. I was… I was your mistake. Nothing more.”
“Mistakes,” he said with effort, “are also important to me. I don’t cross them out of my life, or memory. And I never blame others for them. You are important to me, Triss, and always will be. You never let me down. Never. Believe me.”
She remained silent a long while.
“I will stay until spring,” she said finally, struggling against her shaking voice. “I will stay with Ciri… I will watch over her. Day and night. I will be with her day and night. And when spring is here… when spring is here we will take her to Melitele’s Temple in Ellander. The thing that wants to possess her might not be able to reach her in the temple. And then you will ask Yennefer for help.”
“All right, Triss. Thank you.”
“Geralt?”
“Yes.”
“Ciri said something else, didn’t she? Something only you heard. Tell me what it was.”
“No,” he protested and his voice quivered. “No, Triss.”
“Please.”
“She wasn’t speaking to me.”
“I know. She was speaking to me. Tell me, please.”
“After coming to… When I picked her up… She whispered: ‘Forget about him. Don’t torture him.’”
“I won’t,” she said quietly. “But I can’t forget. Forgive me.”
“I am the one who ought to be asking for forgiveness. And not only asking you.”
“You love her that much,” she stated, not asking.
“That much,” he admitted in a whisper after a long moment of silence.
Good thing then that possibility exists for Geralt to realise he was wrong and that Yen is actually his favourite mistake.
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