A word of advice for tomorrow's patch for relatively new players...

[tulamide]

Apart from Skellige maybe.

Ok, but a little exception for me maybe? I got outplayed by the dozens from NG, ST and other SK decks with my poor little Eist deck over the last 20 hours. All my new found self-confidence washed away by tears of dispair. I vote for a super op tulamide faction, that can only be played by gamers running by that name...

 

[Melysan]

I am happy about all the new cards we got , but i just wanna remind everyone (including CDPR) , that there are cards like ''Aedernian Mauler'' and ''Demavend III'' .

 

[Archan6el]

SY is quite ridiculously OP. There are so many cards and engines that generate almost the same amount of coins next to the points, to be converted into (damage) points again. It seems you guys are right.

They would fit nicely in seasonal mode.

Post automatically merged: Jun 29, 2019

One of the most ridiculously OP cards to use coins must be Philippa Eilhart. On deploy she can seize an enemy up to 9 strength, getting double points from coins used. Compare Philippa (9p) with Muzzle (12p). Using Philippa on a 5 strength enemy costs 9p and 5 coins, giving a total of 13 points and possibly a 5 strength engine (as the enemy was seized). Muzzle costs 12p and seizes and locks the enemy, giving 10 points. Her flexibility to seize higher strength enemies makes Philippa even more OP. Saving coins is not difficult at all, so this ability is just ridiculous. Was she not compared with Muzzle during development? I find that hard to believe.

 

[Melysan]

SY is quite ridiculously OP. There are so many cards and engines that generate almost the same amount of coins next to the points, to be converted into (damage) points again. It seems you guys are right.
View attachment 11006182

They would fit nicely in seasonal mode.

Post automatically merged: Jun 29, 2019

One of the most ridiculously OP cards to use coins must be Philippa Eilhart. On deploy she can seize an enemy up to 9 strength, getting double points from coins used. Compare Philippa (9p) with Muzzle (12p). Using Philippa on a 5 strength enemy costs 9p and 5 coins, giving a total of 13 points and possibly a 5 strength engine (as the enemy was seized). Muzzle costs 12p and seizes and locks the enemy, giving 10 points. Her flexibility to seize higher strength enemies makes Philippa even more OP. Saving coins is not difficult at all, so this ability is just ridiculous. Was she not compared with Muzzle during development? I find that hard to believe.

Thing that pisses me off hard ... is that people try to justify Phillipa because of the ''coin'' cost ... which really is no excuse.
Its a mind control card which can take a card with a ~9 point body ... and the card is not locked - meaning it's even more.

 

[4RM3D]

Thing that pisses me off hard ... is that people try to justify Phillipa because of the ''coin'' cost ... which really is no excuse.

It's not an excuse, it's reasoning. Look at the chart below:

1 strength unit gives 5 points, costing 10 provisions + 1 coin; net total is -6
2 strength unit gives 7 points, costing 10 provisions + 2 coins; net total is -5
3 strength unit gives 9 points, costing 10 provisions + 3 coins; net total is -4
4 strength unit gives 11 points, costing 10 provisions + 4 coins; net total is -3
5 strength unit gives 13 points, costing 10 provisions + 5 coins; net total is -2
6 strength unit gives 15 points, costing 10 provisions + 6 coins; net total is -1
7 strength unit gives 17 points, costing 10 provisions + 7 coins; net total is 0
8 strength unit gives 19 points, costing 10 provisions + 8 coins; net total is +1
9 strength unit gives 21 points, costing 10 provisions + 9 coins; net total is +2

She only breaks even at a 7 strength unit (that or a usable engine). Most of the time, it's no better than Muzzle, unless you can really get a good engine. I am not saying Phillipa is bad, but she's also not as good as she first appears to be.

 

[Anciluart]

Tell that to this Olaf, Phillipa is much better than the muzzle, the little that I have played I have noticed that many times the coins are left over so the cost in coins is not so shocking.

As I said earlier in another post, with SK the level of power is even, and the result of this game does not matter since the opponent used his Hym in Olaf after I stole it (he confused the effect of the artifact I imagine). Note that I have a useless card in the field (black blood) and 7 coins that would not be used

By organizing the deck well you get many coins.

Gudrum+Bincy+Phillipa - 34 points for 20 provs + leader. Just one 9 power unit, if not the case you save coins anyway. Surprise factor with Phillipa, could be in the deck or not. The unit that was stolen can activate abilities.

Ardal (5)+Muzzle+Damien - 35 points for 23 provs + leader. Additional risk with the order on Damien and setup of 3 5-power enemy units. Not surprise factor. You cant have Damien and/or muzzle in the deck or not, anyways the oponent knows you will steal a specific power unit.

I think Phillipa should cost at least 12 provs.

 

[Archan6el]

It's not an excuse, it's reasoning. Look at the chart below:

1 strength unit gives 5 points, costing 10 provisions + 1 coin; net total is -6
2 strength unit gives 7 points, costing 10 provisions + 2 coins; net total is -5
3 strength unit gives 9 points, costing 10 provisions + 3 coins; net total is -4
4 strength unit gives 11 points, costing 10 provisions + 4 coins; net total is -3
5 strength unit gives 13 points, costing 10 provisions + 5 coins; net total is -2
6 strength unit gives 15 points, costing 10 provisions + 6 coins; net total is -1
7 strength unit gives 17 points, costing 10 provisions + 7 coins; net total is 0
8 strength unit gives 19 points, costing 10 provisions + 8 coins; net total is +1
9 strength unit gives 21 points, costing 10 provisions + 9 coins; net total is +2

She only breaks even at a 7 strength unit (that or a usable engine). Most of the time, it's no better than Muzzle, unless you can really get a good engine. I am not saying Phillipa is bad, but she's also not as good as she first appears to be.

Did I make a mistake with Philippa's provision of 9p or was that a silent quick patch to 10p?

Anyway, Muzzle is 12p to LOCK and seize a unit, for 10 points max. As coins are generated by several engines or "Tribute free" as well, the average cost to generate 1 coin is significantly less than 1 point/1 provision (but yeah, when used, 1 coin still gives 1 point or 2 points with Philippa - unbalance). Then compare Muzzle with Philippa and I would say she breaks even when she takes a 5 strength unit, unlike Muzzle, so she is already a bit OP there. If she seizes an engine of 5 strength, she is even more OP at 5 already. Going even higher to seize units and/or engines of 6, 7 ,8, 9... well that's just bat-poop crazy.

 

[tulamide]

It's not an excuse, it's reasoning. Look at the chart below:

1 strength unit gives 5 points, costing 10 provisions + 1 coin; net total is -6
2 strength unit gives 7 points, costing 10 provisions + 2 coins; net total is -5
3 strength unit gives 9 points, costing 10 provisions + 3 coins; net total is -4
4 strength unit gives 11 points, costing 10 provisions + 4 coins; net total is -3
5 strength unit gives 13 points, costing 10 provisions + 5 coins; net total is -2
6 strength unit gives 15 points, costing 10 provisions + 6 coins; net total is -1
7 strength unit gives 17 points, costing 10 provisions + 7 coins; net total is 0
8 strength unit gives 19 points, costing 10 provisions + 8 coins; net total is +1
9 strength unit gives 21 points, costing 10 provisions + 9 coins; net total is +2

She only breaks even at a 7 strength unit (that or a usable engine). Most of the time, it's no better than Muzzle, unless you can really get a good engine. I am not saying Phillipa is bad, but she's also not as good as she first appears to be.

In addition to the other answers I want to add that this table implies a coin would be just as valued as str or provision. Which it is not. You get the coins basically for free while using a card's main function (like damaging, boosting, w/e). Best example is Bloody Good Fun: Profit 3, damages up to 9 points, costs 4 provisions. This is either the most powerful 4p card ever created without any other 4p card even coming close to half as efficient - or the coin mechanic simply is valued much lower by the developers. More like 10 coins = 1 provision or str
And that shows much more realistically the value of Phillipa. A break even with a 4str unit.

 

[4RM3D]

In addition to the other answers I want to add that this table implies a coin would be just as valued as str or provision. Which it is not.

While many Syndicate cards are better, coins are still valued about the same. Compare Payday with Primal Savagery. Both deal 2 damage and gain 5 value on Deathblow. Coins are more flexible, granted, but they usually still only provide 1 point, unless combined with other cards.

You get the coins basically for free while using a card's main function (like damaging, boosting, w/e). Best example is Bloody Good Fun: Profit 3, damages up to 9 points, costs 4 provisions.

You never get coins for free. For Bloody Good Fun, you have to pay 3 provisions to get 3 coins and then an extra provision for the ability to snipe a unit. Incidentally, it's a pretty bad card because you cannot choose how many coins you want to spend and you have to spend it on one target.

All cards, except for coin engines, either have a lower strength or higher provision cost to make up for the profit you'll get. What this means is that every coin you got was paid for by points, one way or the other. You just shift those points around.

Let's compare the Olaf (8str 11p) + Knut (6str 9p) combo. Both cards cost 3 more provisions compared to their strength. You pay 3 provisions for their ability, similarly to how you pay provisions for extra coins. This should always be taken into account. In case of the combo, you pay 6 extra provisions to get 8 extra value. When you play Knut without Olaf or Berserk, you are losing value. Coins are better because they can be saved. However, you still needs ways to spend them efficiently, which isn't always possible.

 

[Archan6el]

Please don't confuse the value needed (provisions) to create a coin with the value obtained (points) when using a coin. It's pretty obvious that overall, to create a coin you need much less than one provision. One provision used to be valued around one point, but that's not applicable for coins due to all the coin generating engines and mechanics. On top of that, coins can be worth even 2 points using bounty (provided by very cheap cards) and Philippa. So yes, blatantly unbalanced due to the "exchange rates" of provisions, coins and points.

 

[rrc]

Let's compare the Olaf (8str 11p) + Knut (6str 9p) combo. Both cards cost 3 more provisions compared to their strength.

Ooh dear @4RM3D, you don't fully understand how CDPR nerfs SK. When they increased the provision for Olaf by 1, they buffed Knut by decreasing his provision by 1, basically no change in the deck. Like how when Harald the Cripple was nerfed (long before he was buffed again) by 2 provisions, they reduced the provision of his key card in the deck, the weather, such that his deck doesn't get changed. Etc.

But who cares about SK, we have SAY to worry about now. I am playing SY BTW, but just saying.

 

[Melysan]

It's not an excuse, it's reasoning. Look at the chart below:

1 strength unit gives 5 points, costing 10 provisions + 1 coin; net total is -6
2 strength unit gives 7 points, costing 10 provisions + 2 coins; net total is -5
3 strength unit gives 9 points, costing 10 provisions + 3 coins; net total is -4
4 strength unit gives 11 points, costing 10 provisions + 4 coins; net total is -3
5 strength unit gives 13 points, costing 10 provisions + 5 coins; net total is -2
6 strength unit gives 15 points, costing 10 provisions + 6 coins; net total is -1
7 strength unit gives 17 points, costing 10 provisions + 7 coins; net total is 0
8 strength unit gives 19 points, costing 10 provisions + 8 coins; net total is +1
9 strength unit gives 21 points, costing 10 provisions + 9 coins; net total is +2

She only breaks even at a 7 strength unit (that or a usable engine). Most of the time, it's no better than Muzzle, unless you can really get a good engine. I am not saying Phillipa is bad, but she's also not as good as she first appears to be.

This calculations have nothing to do with an actual gameplay and people on this Topic have explained enough.

 

[dimkagg]

I can't wait to try demavend versus SY decks.

DONT DO THIS!!! for the sake of your mental health i had the same inspiration and guess what

 

[tulamide]

I can't really explain why, but since the update I don't enjoy playing Gwent. It's not about SY being OP or something. It's more that I feel lost, somehow. The season mode is boring, I don't want to play against SY until I know that faction much better, and I don't want to play SY for the same reason. But first steps were so discouraging (lost almost any game), that I simply don't know where to start or what to do else. Arena is ok, but I can't escape to Arena for the rest of the season, can I?

 

[bojerbela]

I can't really explain why, but since the update I don't enjoy playing Gwent. It's not about SY being OP or something. It's more that I feel lost, somehow. The season mode is boring, I don't want to play against SY until I know that faction much better, and I don't want to play SY for the same reason. But first steps were so discouraging (lost almost any game), that I simply don't know where to start or what to do else. Arena is ok, but I can't escape to Arena for the rest of the season, can I?

Don't worry! I feel the same after every rework/big change in the gameplay. And I play from the Day 1 Open Beta, I learned now how it feels. But after you know the cards this feeling is gone. I'm in the same situation now, I did not played much in the first 2 days, learned/crafted the cards, opened many kegs. It was great. Yesterday evening I began to play more seriously, but it's just the learning phase. Play and learn and the fun factor will rise