Developer Update 8.5 Video

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Really good changes.
In some cases this will not be enough (Lockdown), however in general I would not disagree with any change, except maybe Eist not being hit in a more severe way.
With Lockdown they should have really changed the ability to allow the player to decide if they want to Lock or get the Operators, so that multi charge leader abilities cannot exploit that (and +2 provisions).

Poor F***ing Infantry is really cool (I am assuming the units it spawns are 1p Tokens), with Adalia that comes down to 16 points on 7 human bodies for 10 + 4 provisions, enabling Draug and swarm support (like Meve).

It is also nice that Whoreson Junior is finally reliable on devotion (outside of being able to ban SK in a tournament setting).

As for fears that Foglet would be too strong as a potential 10 for 4 + consume one should take into consideration that Crimson Curse is also a 16 for 10, which can easily play for much less, based on a lack of targets, hitting units with overkill damage, armor, shields and damage synergies (like Svalblod Fanatics).
 
I like the rework on the stratagems, really interested to try some of the new ones (provided I acquire them). And I already play Pincer Maneuver from time to time, but the new version looks GOOD!
 

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1. Finally the ball Nerf that should have happened months ago. But are we just trading one problem for another though...Clogs, Viper mentor problem and Gorthur Gvaed triple Joachim.

2. That change to Eist does nothing. You need to remove the synergy with the leader ability, I mean they had no trouble doing that with VIY by nerfing OH so why the hesitation now. SK can easily damage 3 units so nothing will change.

3. The stratagem changes are interesting but WAY TOO STRONG. Urn of shadows especially is a bit much but overall these are too strong. Feels like an excuse not to make some needed balance changes to factions. Deathwish for example needs a rework and this only helps on blue coin. Viy still needs to be removed, I'm a MO player and even I can see it's not healthy for the game because it's hurting other archetypes.

4. The Eredin change was long time coming, I still however think winter queen should be summoned from either deck or graveyard with double frost and reduce her pts where necessary.

5. Changes to Cleaver...ok but not Drill? Interesting.
 
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I am very happy for the buffs to the following stratagems: Ceremonial Dagger, Enchanted Armor, Cursed Scroll, Mask of Uroboros (and directly to the Scoiatael stratagem too by the slight buff to the ST Neophyte).
I am however worried about the buffs to Basilisk Venom and Urn of Shadows... I think these are too strong now, but I agree that the Venom needed a buff BUT the difference between a random poison vs a targeted poison is HUGE, too huge actually. I'd support it fully if the ability to target was tied to adrenaline, for example "Adrenaline 6: Poison a targeted unit instead" and "Adrenaline 6: Trigger any deathwish", or make it adrenaline 7 at least.

I love the buffs so Armory, The Land of a Thousand Fables and even Svalblood Totem. BUT I think it's a missed opportunity to buff Sihil in the same way. I mean poor Frostmourn.. I mean Sihil (!) needs some love, for heaven's sake it's even in the background of your entire video! :D Also Vandergrift's blade betting a similar buff would be cool too.

Poor Lockdown lol, at least let the player chose which row he wants to spawn those operatives in! :p
Invigorate FINALLLY getting buffed lmao, this is nice. :eek:
Idk how I feel about the buff to Reckless Flurry, I mean I like the added flexibility but now it's 9 point leader vs previous 8 points.

Dettlaff... I don't think his deploy needed a buff, it's his order ability that's awful (but a buff of any kind is welcome I guess).
The buff to Emhyr Var Emreis is exactly what I was thinking he needed! I was gonna suggest the same thing on the forums but lately I haven't been playing much so I was lazy to write. xD
Buffs to Meve, Crach and Whoreson Jr. are most welcome indeed.

I am saddened that Eldain didn't receive a nerf (but there's already a thread for this), he needs a 2 points nerf, either 2 points in base power or 1 point nerf and increase provisions to 11.

The nerf to Masquerade Ball is great, now I just think Nauzica Sargent should receive the same treatment.

The Foglet applying Fog for THREE turns is blatantly too much (total of 10 points! for 4 provisions? Sacre bleu!), for a 4 provision card 2 turns of fog would have been just enough, 3 turns would be good if it was 5 provisions. I like the change to Ancient Foglet and to the Archespores, two cards that previously were utterly useless. :[ Also I love that Foglets finally have something to do with the Fog weather effect (just not have them do 3 turns of fog)!

The Dire Bear was already a useful card but now I think it may become too strong... :s
A buff to Sigvald (and Philippe Van Moorlehem) would be welcome...

I applaud that Halfling Safecracker was nerfed into a more fair state but I think Tidecloak Hideaway should have the same treatment (reduce it's base power from 5 to 4 and then it's fair).
Salamandra Mage got it's mage tag but Vaedermakar still doesn't get his druid tag... why lol? :shrug:

"There are more then 30 other balance changes (30 other that aren't mentioned in the video)" - This part gives me hope. :)

I hope NR charges cards get some buffs in the near future. Also a nerf for the OP Bear Witcher Mentors to make them 6 provisions would be very welcome! Also nerf the Bear Witcher Adept to be 6 power max! Also I hope they nerf those 4 provision 6 instant damage cards like Gutting Slash and Salamandra Assault, these should do 5 instant damage + 1 bleeding in their stronger forms instead of the silly 6 instant damage they can do now (while 4 dmg remains their base if conditions are not met for higher values). Also removing the "warrior" tag from the Brokvar Hunter and rework Cahir (so he's not so absolutely binary) please.
 
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Guest 4375874

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The Foglet applying Fog for THREE turns is blatantly too much (total of 10 points! for 4 provisions? Sacre bleu!), for a 4 provision card 2 turns of fog would have been just enough, 3 turns would be good if it was 5 provisions. I like the change to Ancient Foglet and to the Archespores, two cards that previously were utterly useless. :[ Also I love that Foglets finally have something to do with the Fog weather effect (just not have them do 3 turns of fog!)!
Initially I thought the same thing but then I remember all other factions pretty much got a similar card from WOTW and the MO bronze cards were severely underwhelming and continue to be. Between cards like Viper Witcher mentor, Cat witcher or even Bear witcher which I've seen play for more than 3 times their cost I think MO needs something.

I don't think this should be it though, I don't like this direction of insane bronze cards. It's another Fleder trying to compensate for the archetype shortcomings and even that is still not an auto include. They could also rework Fog as well though it wasn't mentioned but they did do that with Frost. Odds are if Fog turns out to be too strong they will.
 
Happy about the Oak buff, whatever it is. Long overdue. Glad Munro got finally buffed, too, even though I'm still skeptical about him. Otherwise, fine changes overall. Eist didn't get touched, but maybe the buffs to other cards will even him out a bit.
 
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Happy about the Oak buff, whatever it is. Long overdue. Glad Munro got finally buffed, too, even though I'm still skeptical about him. Otherwise, fine changes overall. Eist didn't get touched, but maybe the buffs to other cards will even him out a bit.
He was "touched", they changed the bloodthirst requirement from 2 to 3. If that counts as a nerf for SK :shrug:
 
He was "touched", they changed the bloodthirst requirement from 2 to 3. If that counts as a nerf for SK :shrug:
Oh yeah, that is true. Who knows, that might make a difference, too. Anyway, I'm planning on beating me some Eist with my new Invigorate deck. Invigorate meta next season. You heard it here first.
 

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Oh yeah, that is true. Who knows, that might make a difference, too. Anyway, I'm planning on beating me some Eist with my new Invigorate deck. Invigorate meta next season. You heard it here first.
you're probably right about that. Well the weather archetype is looking pretty viable now with Foglets so I'll definitely be giving that a try with White Frost. It's been terrible so far but this could definitely help.
 
That new Coral could be nasty in Lippy decks, and make them even more of an abomination. But we'll see.

Being able to Renew Stefan could be interesting and fun; I'm sure it will find a place in at least some meme deck(s). :D
NG Soldiers will most likely see more play than they do now, and it's something I'll probably try. The crossbowmen especially should benefit from the additional Armor.

Invigorate meta next season. You heard it here first.
It might happen even just because players will be excited that the ability finally gets a buff. I bet it will certainly be seen in the first week or so at least.

It will also be interesting to see what the new starter decks are like. I wonder if they'll still use the same abilities (not that I remember what some of the current ones use...).

The Stratagem changes should, at least for a little while, add some variety. They will also provide a buff for Draft decks that don't get Skull, TA, or Lamp as an option.

The Price of Power logo looks really cool, and I like that the expansion will no doubt be known as PoP. :p

PS. I actually didn't remember Munro was a card until they showed how he's being changed. Never, ever seen him that I recall.
 

rrc

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Happy about the Oak buff, whatever it is. Long overdue. Glad Munro got finally buffed, too, even though I'm still skeptical about him. Otherwise, fine changes overall. Eist didn't get touched, but maybe the buffs to other cards will even him out a bit.
I still think Munro is over priced. Munro's value is hard capped at max 16 and with theoretical minimum of 8. The dwarfs do random pings and with armour getting added to every unit right and left, there is no guarantee that the pings will be of any significance or reliable (you cant reliably pass the round if you are 1 point down and you have two Berserkers).

Max 16 points in 4 turns for 12 provisions.. are in in HC release era? This kind of points were good 2 years ago. I would play Munro if he is at 10 provisions or Berserkers are buffed to be 4 point body (increasing his value by at least 2 points; still too less for 12P in the current era) or Berserkers gets "Bonded: Ignore the enemy armour". Otherwise, Munro will still be tried by a few Dwarf fans and quickly realise "he is shite" and will remove him along with the other over costed support card called Zoltan.

I reached pro this season only with playing Dwarfs and I can say that Munro is an absolute shitty card to include in dwarf decks in its current state (even after 8.5). 12 provisions for him is an absolute joke and I don't know what CDPR sees in him to keep him at 12P when they release cards like Eist at 11P? May be after another 4-5 months they will rework him or reduce his provisions to a reasonable level so that we can see him played.
 
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The buffs to the stratagems are mostly fine, but for Cursed Scroll and Urn of Shadows I think it is a bit too much. Imagine playing Imperial Manticore, or even Miruna in round 1 with this stratagem plus a consume unit. You either yoink 2 cards with Miruna, or destroy 2 cards with Manticore. Cursed Scroll change is not ok either, as it allows you to cheat the mulligan system and pick up the card you wanted but did not get from the mulligan phase. I can see both of these being played more often in their own archetypes, but they won't be that healthy for the game. Basilisk Venom leaves me a bit reserved too although this card has seen 0 play so we'll see. Other than that, props for Ceremonial Dagger and Mask of Uroboros. The buff to the Neophyte stratagem seems good too, although a bit too much if Neophyte's will be included in Deadeye decks. Imagine playing all of them + stratagem. That's 6 Neophyte's with an order ability. Too much fodder for Vernossiel.

The new locations seem ok. I can see Armory having synergy with Trollololo, but other than that the armor will be just some extra protection for a unit. A Land of a Thousand Fables seems interesting, although the RNG element of its order is meh. Why would you include a special card that you don't want in your deck? And what makes you think you get what you want through this RNG ability? Svalblod Totem was fine as it was. I don't see why would someone use the order ability in the next round without the Fanatics. Assuming one Fanatic gets removed, the player would simply choose to not use the ability.

Now for the leader abilities, I can definitely see some play for Pincer Maneuver, being able to draw 2 cards of your choice but losing the 5 power boost. I do believe that at least a 2 power buff should've been kept to make it more consistent.

Not that excited about Invigorate because the leader was just part of the problem. The second problem that has not been addressed are the cards synergizing with this. I am all for the versatility, and the capacity to buff a unit 2 times though. Ditto for Reckless Flurry. This should've been buffed to 9 damage and that's it, I don't see how giving it charges would improve the leader.

The buff to Movran Voorhis is good. He now looks more like a leader card. Lockdown should've gotten a 2 provision buff, but even with this I doubt it would be workable. Imperial Formation seems the most interesting and would actually improve the soldier NG package..

Pirate's Cove change does not seem like an improvement to me. Plays for 8, and provides 2 spenders with hoard abilities that do not synergize with the leader and the whole archetype. The only way this leader can mean something is if SY Pirates gets a similar treatment with SK Pirates, i.e. new cards, new abilities.

Inspired Zeal buff is good. Doubled the points and keeps the charges.

Now for the leader cards:
Dettlaff - As many players have stated, the problem with him was not the Blood Moon ability, but the order ability. Giving Blood moon for a maximum of 5 turns is ok though.
Unseen Elder - The power buff is exactly what this card needed. Good choice. It was stupid in the first place for a 12p card to be removed by 5p specials.
Foltest - The power nerf and provision buff is a good trade-off. He still can't get removed by most specials. And certainly, the ability to passively buff a unit will come in handy and trigger his main ability.
Meve - Still unconvinced. Counter 3 remains too much. The ceiling of this card is insane and pretty much begs to be heatwaved, CoC-ed, locked or removed in whatever way possible. This card and its rework may prove detrimental to the health of the game in general. Meve was strong, the problem was that she required too much setup to gain value. You made her even stronger, but the complicated setup remained.
Emhyr - ok I guess. I still don't like him. I still think he won't provide good value as he needs to stick a couple of turns to provide payoff.
Whoreson Junior - This rework is a bit of an overkill. 6 damage on any unit, boosted or not on devotion is too much. Not to mention that you can also remove 3 power or less units with him multiple times. The Fee ability should've had a cooldown at least, like Igor's. You can get 11 value out of him on deploy and a conditional 3 more assuming you have no coins. If you do have coins, the ceiling goes even higher and you can't really answer him. Insane indeed.
Cleaver - I am all for the armor loss.
Crach - Zeal on order would have been better. Otherwise this won't change much. SK Pirates is not consistent.
Eist - the most busted card still remains busted. SK Warriors damages enemy units easily, so it won't be that difficult to setup Bloodthirst 3 rather than 2. Remains busted.
 
Honestly, Land of a Thousand Fables into Amphibious Assault, later transforming the echoed Assault into a guaranteed second Draug sounds potentially useful, depending on whether one would really want to use Draug in 2 rounds.
 
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Reworks:

Archesporre - inherits Foglet's ability.
Foglet - Fog for 3 turns on Deathwish is a bit too much. Plays for 10, too much for a 4p card.
Ancient Foglet - 4 power for 6 provision is ok. Veil is a bit uncalled for, especially with its ability to boost itself based on row effects. This card, if not addressed early can grow very tall in a White Frost deck with extra row effect cards (Eredin, Red Riders, Ard Gaeth, Naglfar Crew etc.) and now with Foglet's ability.
Poor F Infantry - Bonded ability is rather meh. Dunno about those 2 spawned tokens (?). Guess we'll have to wait and see. Good for Meve because it swarms the board. Also good with Queen Adalia. Has potential.
Munro Bruys - not that excited about this change either. The only difference from how it is now is that you can first play Munro and then play Zoltan or Zoltan's Company. Or you can play Figgis first, then play Munro and user 1 charge for the Rowdy Dwarf Figgis spawns, and then play Zoltan or Zoltan's Company. More flexible, but a provision buff would've been better.
Coral - 8 for 8 on deploy, which is not bad. With Tuirseach Skirmisher, it can go for 12. Definitely worth playing in Lippy decks, with Birna and Skalds. Also good to play with Mask of Uroboros. Technically it works with Eist too, but I don't think we'll see Coral in use with him. I like this change. Maybe Iris's Companions might get some consideration, although the random discard is a bit off-putting.
Dire Bear - This card was only worth playing with Battle Trance. And while in theory Berserk 7 should encourage you playing this card with it, in reality you need to damage it one turn at a time with either Svalblod Priest or Cultist as playing an alchemy card would heal it up.
Armor Up - the buff is welcomed. But like in the case of Dire Bear not sure what to make of it. Needs testing.
Masquerade Ball - the most massive nerf. Unless Quadruple Joakim decks do not drop it all together, they will have to put other Aristocrats into their decks, maybe Van Moorlehem Hunters, Thirsty Dames or Seditious Aristocrats. Otherwise just having Roderick, Joakim and Usurper is no longer enough.
Damien - The power buff is good. No longer possible to easily remove.
Stefan Skellen - on paper this is a massive buff as it allows it to be renewed. But same like Damien the problem remains with his ability being an order. Too susceptible for removal or being disabled by a lock or movement.
Vreemde and Vrygeff - Ok I guess. Maybe with the Imperial Formation buff, NG soldiers might see some play.
Horst/Ewald - Becoming spenders is a good thing. Horst is better since you get coins to spend even if Ewald is not in your graveyard. Doubt this change will make them play-worthy.
Safecracker - The second biggest nerf. The 1 power buff somewhat compensates. They still play for a lot of value, but now that they can't boost themselves when a crime is played definitely lowers the effectiveness of Lined Pockets. It would have been better if another SY unit got the Intimidate tag in exchange.
Keeper of the Flame - There are too few Cleric cards in SY for this to matter. Prophet Lebioda and Inquisitor never get play in SY. Helveed is a staple in Congregate decks with Cleric of the FR. Scribe and EF Priest are the second best options. Too conditional, requires too much setup IMO to be worth playing and elevating Congregate.
 
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My comments:

Strategem:

Cermonial Dagger: Not sure if a buff or a nerf. There are many vampire cards (Orianna, Garkain, Fleder, Protofleder) which really benefit from bleeding. Would appreciate to have both options on this stratagem.

Cursed Scroll: I am fine with that change. Helps to get the cards you need.

Urn of Shadow: This can be the strongest stratagem if you have the right cards in hand. Nowadays, the maximum value was 6 on Harpy Egg. Now the value can be 10 (Penitent). Also Miruna (max 8), Wercat (max 9) and Plague Maiden (max 7) might be nice targets. Additionally, it might be interest to use it on Golyat to catfish many cards in round 1 and lose it to have an advantage on round 2/3.
Considering the nerfs on Overhelming hunger I appreciate that deathwish support.

Scoiatael Neophyte: Alright buff for a mediocre four provision card whose main use case was elf swarm. Stratagem was to my mind even before playable as it can trigger both scenario and Elven Swordmaster

Mask of Oroboros: Reasonable buff

Armour up: Also ok, but still do not see that many use cases for that card (Maybe in bandit decks or other decks benefitting from armor like dwarf, Living Armour, Dire Mutated Hound, Trollololo)

Land of a Thousand Fables: Can maybe make sense in Assimilate but to my mind there are better options

Svalblod Totem: Also fine with that buff

Leaders:

Pincer Maneuver: To my mind a reasonable buff, but would prefer to have the tutored unit boosted to getting that volunteer on Melee

Invigorate: From my perspective the best leader buff as it solves so many problems from old Invigorate (special artefact issue, carryover issue) and you can boost benefitters like Aglais Sheldon Skaggs twice

Reckless Fury: Also nice little buff. But you clearly want to play it into Dagur Two Blades and Great Swords, won´t u?

Lockdown: Still unplayable to my mind

Imperial formation: Strong buff as solider engines can be more difficult removed (Alba Pikeman, Ard Feainn Crossbowman)

Pirate Cove: Not convinced, probably the old one was even stronger

Inspired Zeal: Reasonable buff

New leader cards

Foltest: I am ok with the body provision switch but really do not think that he needs an additional passive ability. At least restrict it to soldiers.

Meve: Great buff. Can get strong in a long round if not countered

Unseen Elder + Detlaff: From my perspective that it´s a little bit too much. Vampires are currently from my perspective strong. Detlaff´s deploy can easily trigger Blood Moon for 5 rounds. Unless many other I considered Detlaff to be already well synergizing in a vampire deck. I would prefer to buff his passive ability (like: damage an enemy unit with bleeding by 1. Increase the damage to 2 if you control at least 2 Ekimmaras).
Unseen Elder also is a strong deployer (+4 bleeding, +2 random bleeding in beginning). I think it was fine to have him at 5 body so that he can more easily removed. His passive ability can still be protected by a defender which is often used in vampire decks to protect Orianna.

Emhyr var Emreis: Completely reasonable little buff

Whoreson Junior: Also completely reasonable, but would prefer if SY gets a benefit from opponent boosted archetype

Crach an Craite: He was already very strong. Do not see any reason to buff him

Eist: Reasonable nerf

Other cards

MO

Foglet: That´s the strongest bronze deathwish ability at 4 provisions. Probably this cards need either lower body or more provisions

Ancient Foglet: Think he´s somehow comparable to Fallen Knight and I am ok with him but will definitely try some MO weather decks after the patch

Eredin: Reasonable buff

NR

Poor fucking Infanry: Reasonable, probably a swarm enabler

SC

Munro Bruys: Reasonable little buff

SK

Dire Bear: Do not see why this card should be nerfed. At least reduce his provisions to compensate for the nerf. Also do not see why players want to berserk him. If they have boosters they simply play them on the other row.

Coral: Also reasonable discard support and bloodthirst enabler for Eist

Armor up: Think that it was ok at 5 provisions

NG

Masquerade Ball: Completely reasonable nerf

Damien and Stefan and other provision/body buffs: Also reasonable to buff them.

SY

Horst and Ewald: Needed and reasonable buff

Cleaver: If you want him out of easy removal you need two crownsplitter around him. Then his body will be 7 if you use Shakedown on him. Think that’s a reasonable nerf.

Haldling Safecracker: Removing the intimdate is too much from my mind. Would prefer to have it´s body reduced to 1 and leave him as he is.

Keeper of the flame: Love playing around with those keywords. Will probably try my firesworn deck again after the patch.
 
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Forgot one thing I'm definitely not looking forward to: the Ancient Foglet change. I hate playing against weather decks especially since there's no way to get rid of the fog or frost or whatever before it's run its course. Vaedermakar is the closest thing.
 
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