EIthne control need a nerf soon

[ardeathwing]

I agree here. Scoitael has very few options. I have tried hard to make filavandrel work and it just can't hang with eithne or crach.



I am glad someone said it. The crach control with wolfsbane and the gold ship is just as good at erasing boards, better even cause it can thin to always find those cards.

And then there is woodland control, the new version of eithne artifacts. Empty boards are very dull.

Wolfsbane and the ship are both very conditional. With wolfsbane you align just to damage with 2. When you align a scorch/epidemic/shirru you KILL. The ship only works vs wide decks with a lot of low units, which are not that common at the moment. Pretty much everything that remains on a board most games is heavily buffed which renders the ship useless. Wide decks in particular go for mass buff cards, froth and so on. This either makes you pull your ship early or risk losing it's value, so you rarely achieve something significant for a 10 provision card.
SK control is a joke compared to the Ethne control IMO.

 

[ZenaRose]

Any engine units is unplayable now, because too many things can insta kill it. Because you reduced the number of hp for all cards by half, and the damage was left almost the same

 

[Seyfti]

Wolfsbane and the ship are both very conditional. With wolfsbane you align just to damage with 2. When you align a scorch/epidemic/shirru you KILL. The ship only works vs wide decks with a lot of low units, which are not that common at the moment. Pretty much everything that remains on a board most games is heavily buffed which renders the ship useless. Wide decks in particular go for mass buff cards, froth and so on. This either makes you pull your ship early or risk losing it's value, so you rarely achieve something significant for a 10 provision card.
SK control is a joke compared to the Ethne control IMO.

Exactly this! SK control has ways to play around it, while Eithne just takes a dump on pretty much any deck that is currently floating in the meta. I've had games where my ship was just a 5 point card and did not damage to the enemy board while I had blow wolfsbane early in round 1 to take it.

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Wolfsbane and the ship are both very conditional.

Very conditional? I wouldn't count lining up units to even power as very conditional. Conditional, yes. About as conditional as Scorch, Epidemic and Schirru.

With wolfsbane you align just to damage with 2.

Oh please, Crach has ample damage capacity to ensure the WB condition is satisfied. The leader might as well be a non-removable MC spear over 2-3 rounds. If one or, worst case, two MC Spears manage to stick you effectively have Eithne every other turn and 2 pings on the other turns. Toss in a few other damage units and, yeah, you're getting value off WB. It's the same reason WB is strong with Eithne.

The ship only works vs wide decks with a lot of low units, which are not that common at the moment.

They don't have to be low. They just need to be damaged. Ensuring damaged units isn't going to be hard with Crach. Not unless it's against a buff spam deck or the Crach player is playing poorly. Even if Ship fails to wreck an entire board it's unlikely to brick. Even if it doesn't get obscene value it's still reliably going to get decent value. I think the only time I've seen Ship brick is in a short round with heavily buffed units or when forcing it out with Quax or something. Neither of which will happen unless you take R1 vs it and bleed them hard R2.

Wide decks in particular go for mass buff cards, froth and so on.

Heh, froth.... Haven't seen many of those lately. Probably because it's 13 provisions now and a number of cards hard or soft counter it. All of which cost fewer provisions, by the way.

 

[Esmer]

ST is currently totally broken, one faction that denies any engine based deck. Deploy units that are far stronger than many order cards without zeal and charges. That whole faction is a big joke right now and anyone who Plays it shouldbe ashamed.

You mean, the majority of current Gwent players? It's either play Eithne/Crach control or lose.

Theoretically you can counter these decks with big tempo plays, but with 3 card draws each turn it's really difficult to win a long round.

 

[Shabman]

Yeah right. You try playing it then and see how well you fare.

The moment you choose Eithne control (of any kind) as your deck, you will not even believe what you will be matched with.

There are things, for instance, which Nilfgaard can do that would make Eithne blush like a little girl.

 

[ardeathwing]

Oh please, Crach has ample damage capacity to ensure the WB condition is satisfied. The leader might as well be a non-removable MC spear over 2-3 rounds. If one or, worst case, two MC Spears manage to stick you effectively have Eithne every other turn and 2 pings on the other turns. Toss in a few other damage units and, yeah, you're getting value off WB. It's the same reason WB is strong with Eithne.



They don't have to be low. They just need to be damaged. Ensuring damaged units isn't going to be hard with Crach. Not unless it's against a buff spam deck or the Crach player is playing poorly. Even if Ship fails to wreck an entire board it's unlikely to brick. Even if it doesn't get obscene value it's still reliably going to get decent value. I think the only time I've seen Ship brick is in a short round with heavily buffed units or when forcing it out with Quax or something. Neither of which will happen unless you take R1 vs it and bleed them hard R2.

Do you realize you need to 'align' 4 units to break even the provision cost of Wolfsbane and 5 to get on top. Not to mention this includes wasting damage potential on unit you would not normally want to waste it on.
Do you realize you need to have 3 damaged units to break even with the ship. Same damage issue as WB described above.
Do you realize how many way more broken cards are out there for control decks that break even way easily and have unlimited potential (e.g. epidemic, scorch etc)
DO you realize that leaving damaged units on the board instead of finishing them if possible lets them realize their full potential (synergies, orders, etc)
Seriously, your problems are WB and ship?

 

[4RM3D]

Eithné and Wolfsbane are getting nerfed in the December patch: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/index.php?threads/so-it-begins-december-patch-preview.10991104/

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Do you realize you need to 'align' 4 units to break even the provision cost of Wolfsbane and 5 to get on top. Not to mention this includes wasting damage potential on unit you would not normally want to waste it on.
Do you realize you need to have 3 damaged units to break even with the ship. Same damage issue as WB described above.
Do you realize how many way more broken cards are out there for control decks that break even way easily and have unlimited potential (e.g. epidemic, scorch etc)
DO you realize that leaving damaged units on the board instead of finishing them if possible lets them realize their full potential (synergies, orders, etc)
Seriously, your problems are WB and ship?

Yup, sounds about right.

You're trying to tell me lining up 4 units, when most units already have similar power values, is somehow difficult? Crach decks running Ship/WB run 1 ping units, MC Spears and, well, Crach for a reason. It affords a plethora of 1 shot ping units. Eithne functions the same way except with more 2 and 3 damage elves (assuming we're talking about the elf version, since the artifact version is sub-par post artifact nerf). If you're blocking WB from getting value vs Crach the Crach player is doing something wrong.

Hell, I played a Dema deck with a Fila deck some time ago and hit a 35+ double WB with just RNR and a handful of damage elves.

Ship is a bit more of a sketchy case. You're assuming they aren't able to swing both in one round. Not too many decks can outbuff WB and deny Ship value at the same time. Big MS maybe with row stacking high buffed units. Eithne sure as hell isn't doing it. Reveal probably isn't doing it. NR might be able to pull it off with the right build and setup. It only takes 3 to get above the provision cost.

Leaving damaged units depends entirely on the damaged unit. It's easy to see a poor Eithne/Crach pilot compared to a good one based on what they save specific damage units to hit. Even if you leave units on the board it's not going to matter if you can land a 16+ WB. Heh, most of the counter to WB vs these decks is to force it out at an opportune time. WB itself is exceptional at sealing R1. WB+Ship R3 vs Crach likely means you're getting wrecked (same idea as Niv+DD without weather removal, better get it out and/or go for a 2-0).

For the record, my problem isn't WB and Ship. Ship is probably fine. WB could potentially be toned down a tad. A slightly higher provision cost would likely correct it. My problem is with Eithne and, to some extent, Crach and SK deck thin potential in general. Tone down both leaders and either give SK similar consistency issues to everyone else or improve it for everyone else (preferably the latter) and these line-up cards stop getting obscene value.

 

[masterring]

One easy solution for Heroes would be:

You have to use any Order abilities, play cards and than Hero ability should be last thing in round.
Once you have used Hero ability, Orders and playing cards should not be possible.

That would stop mass scorches, epidemics and so on...

That would also prevent using some good hero abilities as last play in game like Woodland spirit. You should use his ability at second last card giving opponent to respond for mass point play.

Just a thought

 

[4RM3D]

Once you have used Hero ability, Orders and playing cards should not be possible.

Some leaders have abilities that refresh, giving you free card advantage. Thus your suggestion would not work.

 

[jgolden234]

Yup, sounds about right.

You're trying to tell me lining up 4 units, when most units already have similar power values, is somehow difficult? Crach decks running Ship/WB run 1 ping units, MC Spears and, well, Crach for a reason. It affords a plethora of 1 shot ping units. Eithne functions the same way except with more 2 and 3 damage elves (assuming we're talking about the elf version, since the artifact version is sub-par post artifact nerf). If you're blocking WB from getting value vs Crach the Crach player is doing something wrong.

Hell, I played a Dema deck with a Fila deck some time ago and hit a 35+ double WB with just RNR and a handful of damage elves.

Ship is a bit more of a sketchy case. You're assuming they aren't able to swing both in one round. Not too many decks can outbuff WB and deny Ship value at the same time. Big MS maybe with row stacking high buffed units. Eithne sure as hell isn't doing it. Reveal probably isn't doing it. NR might be able to pull it off with the right build and setup. It only takes 3 to get above the provision cost.

Leaving damaged units depends entirely on the damaged unit. It's easy to see a poor Eithne/Crach pilot compared to a good one based on what they save specific damage units to hit. Even if you leave units on the board it's not going to matter if you can land a 16+ WB. Heh, most of the counter to WB vs these decks is to force it out at an opportune time. WB itself is exceptional at sealing R1. WB+Ship R3 vs Crach likely means you're getting wrecked (same idea as Niv+DD without weather removal, better get it out and/or go for a 2-0).

For the record, my problem isn't WB and Ship. Ship is probably fine. WB could potentially be toned down a tad. A slightly higher provision cost would likely correct it. My problem is with Eithne and, to some extent, Crach and SK deck thin potential in general. Tone down both leaders and either give SK similar consistency issues to everyone else or improve it for everyone else (preferably the latter) and these line-up cards stop getting obscene value.

You are saying everything I am thinking, but you say it so much better than I would!

 

[masterring]

Some leaders have abilities that refresh, giving you free card advantage. Thus your suggestion would not work.

What do you talking about? You can’t use hero ability prior to playing card and using orders. Which hero gives card advantage

 

[4RM3D]

What do you talking about? You can’t use hero ability prior to playing card and using orders. Which hero gives card advantage

Ah, like that. Never mind, I misunderstood.

 

[masterring]

Ah, like that. Never mind, I misunderstood.

Np mate.
That way you prevent scorches, wolfbanes and all kind of abuse. Plays schiru np. But you can’t set up 2 more guys for big boom.

This way you can also prevent dumb queensguard abuse. Ping queensguard and make another. You would need to ping it turn earlier making her more vulnerable to die

 

[taisho1987]

Rank 12, 7x Eithne in a row. For me it's over, at least until next patch.

 

[KenLBlack]

I'm consistently mired in ranks 15-12 due to the heavy control decks. I refuse to play a deck that contains so many artifacts; it's not fun.

But hey, guys...good news! As I'm sure you've heard by now, the brain trust at CDPR decided to make this Scoia'tael Faction Week! 'Cause, you know...you just can't see them enough! (This coming from a person who always prefers playing SC.)

 

[Vaerynn]

DO you realize that leaving damaged units on the board instead of finishing them if possible lets them realize their full potential (synergies, orders, etc)

I find this particularly amusing because what you fail to mention, in this meta, engines (with Orders and Synergies) are mostly obsolete. Just take a look at Northern Realms Machines who consistently fail to take off.

I am curious, however, how do Skellige's Ships fair against Ethine Control? I imagine they would face similar problems as Northern Realms, but they seem to be doing a superior job in comparison. Why.

-

Personally, as I've made my ascent up the ladder, I am finding Skellige to be far more egregious to play against than Ethine (I can actually win matches when facing Ethine, Skellige on the other hand, is completely untenable).