Enemies that fire badly?

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Enemies that fire badly?

In every game I have played, the enemy is a diciplined fighting machine (if not always exactly a crack shot) but should we change this?

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/AfricaFighting/i6fl77.jpg
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/AfricaFighting/i6fll0.jpg
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/AfricaFighting/042.jpg
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/AfricaFighting/049.jpg

There`s footage in Afghanistan where you will see ANA or taliban troops firing in similar fashion, or just going all out Rambo.

The rule of thumb of good writing is 'show don't tell'.

I think that video games are fairly crude tools of story telling (usually done by way of boring monologues or the Hollywood way --- cut scenes). So far, the industry have not used one of the most unique way to tell a story --- gameplay mechanics, and that would be a great way to do it.

For example,
if you heard a SHORT(please...) quip about a gang being a guerilla band fleeing a central american country, . The AI would just take proper cover, and use their sights when they fire at you, use grenades to flush you out or they would use CQB techniques while closing in on you. FEAR level AI.

In contrast,if you went up against a gang of hooligans with more swag then combat skills, you would find them monkeying around like in the pictures. Same weapons, just different tactics. Sure they are able to intimidate the local teenagers, but can they hit the broad side of a barn? No boring monologues there. You could also see the leader trying to do it Rambo style -- e.g just charge you on full auto. You know all there is about them.

This mechanic would provide for enemies 'leveling up' , instead of relying on RPG stats (level 1 enemy = shoot 1 time and is dead, level 80 enemy, shoot 45 times and is dead).

Some facts:
Cops hit their target less then a quarter of the time in spite of urban engagements happening at very close range.
 
I think different enemies should display different levels of discipline and training, (ranging from none to perfect soldier,) depending on who and what they are.

Young booster gangers wikll have next to no combat experience, nor will 'Joe Bloggs' in the street on his way home. It's doubtful that many, (if any,) gangers will have much discipline either.

On the other hand, corporate special forces will be well trained killing machines with a few wars and hundres if not thousands of hours of combat experience in various environments and situations under their belts.


This should affect how the enemy AI's act and react during firefights as well as when they relaxed or alerted.
 
I really like what this post is addressing. My time in the military has shown me the wide range of professionalism and capability of various troops within the U.S. military, much less outside it. Top tier special operators move like they know each other's most intimate nuances, appear to act without fear, and execute group movements in such a way that mistakes are rare, as each movement is frequently rehearsed until it is second nature. The opposite extreme would be many of the third world militants as pictured above, obviously.

I really like the idea that difficulty could be expressed by the skill of my opponents, rather than by multiplying damage I do to them, and that they do to me, while they remain boring otherwise as they "level up". Good, robust, living, thinking AI would add tons to the immersion of CP2077! If I know my enemies are smarter than to group up into a small crowd, and charge into a long hallway (called a "fatal funnel" in CQC terminology) then I am going to have to wonder what the hell they are planning, and how they will respond to me.
 
Top tier special operators move like they know each other's most intimate nuances,

I think..no, I'm definitely aroused.

I really like the idea that difficulty could be expressed by the skill of my opponents, rather than by multiplying damage I do to them, and that they do to me, while they remain boring otherwise as they "level up". Good, robust, living, thinking AI would add tons to the immersion of CP2077! If I know my enemies are smarter than to group up into a small crowd, and charge into a long hallway (called a "fatal funnel" in CQC terminology) then I am going to have to wonder what the hell they are planning, and how they will respond to me.

Yes, indeed. Challenging encounters not based on some silly and, in Cyberpunk PnP, wholly thrown out increased health mechanic, but enemy training and technique.

That way, when you see the elite, heavily borged enemy walk calmly into such a hallway, you should be extreeemly worried, not giggling to yourself about the easy murder you are about to perpetuate.
 

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Forum veteran
Haven't we had this discussion before? I'm just going to copy-paste what I wrote in the last thread that was like this:

"Hopefully we'll get a game that's made more or less difficult by enemies' strategies. Like on easy they run up to you without shooting and practically line up to get shot in the face, whereas they flank you and work together intelligently on harder difficulties. Cover fire while their buddies move to get a better angle on you, that kind of thing. Stuff like improved accuracy never really sits right with me, though, because then it's like everyone's missing on purpose on normal difficulties."

Then again, in the context of some untrained punk going all Rambo, poor accuracy would actually be kind of tolerable. It just has to make sense and be somewhat varied; what's to say that one person in a group doesn't have a natural talent for aiming? Some kind of randomized aiming ability in enemy NPCs would be awesome and keep you on your toes. Like street punks have lesser accuracy as a whole but every so often one will be surprisingly accurate, while enemies later in the game are all quite skilled (though to different degrees). That could add refreshing variance to multiple playthroughs and force you to prioritize targets based on their behavior. Just an idea.
 
I definitely want plenty of enemy variety and varying difficulty.

I don't want to ever feel like i'm mowing down waves of faceless cannon fodder however (unless my character is just that awesome in combat). Remember that just because a thug is untrained or inexperienced, they still can be extremely dangerous if approached without caution. They should be trying their hardest to survive as well, even if they suck at it.
 
As long as they don't suck as bad as stormtroopers.



 
I think different enemies should display different levels of discipline and training, (ranging from none to perfect soldier,) depending on who and what they are.

Young booster gangers wikll have next to no combat experience, nor will 'Joe Bloggs' in the street on his way home. It's doubtful that many, (if any,) gangers will have much discipline either.

On the other hand, corporate special forces will be well trained killing machines with a few wars and hundres if not thousands of hours of combat experience in various environments and situations under their belts.


This should affect how the enemy AI's act and react during firefights as well as when they relaxed or alerted.

Pretty much this...
 
I've yet to see any game that comes even close to modeling "real" shooting.

FYI I'm a retired US Marine who spent another 12 years as a cop after my service.
So one would hope I have some idea what I'm talking about on this subject (as opposed to the arm-chair commandos that usually comment so rabidly on this subject).

Other then snipers most real-life shooting involves:
1) Fleeting glimpses of your opposition
2) Being shot back at
3) A considerable amount of tension/fear on your part
4) Many, many other variables

None of these makes for typical game marksmanship (hitting 25-90% of the time).

Does this mean I want my character to have to haul a wagon load of ammo around and game firefights to last 5 minutes without a hit be either side?
Heck no.
But please, please don't assume game shooting has more then superficial resemblance to real life.
 
I've yet to see any game that comes even close to modeling "real" shooting.

FYI I'm a retired US Marine who spent another 12 years as a cop after my service.
So one would hope I have some idea what I'm talking about on this subject (as opposed to the arm-chair commandos that usually comment so rabidly on this subject).

Other then snipers most real-life shooting involves:
1) Fleeting glimpses of your opposition
2) Being shot back at
3) A considerable amount of tension/fear on your part
4) Many, many other variables

None of these makes for typical game marksmanship (hitting 25-90% of the time).

Does this mean I want my character to have to haul a wagon load of ammo around and game firefights to last 5 minutes without a hit be either side?
Heck no.
But please, please don't assume game shooting has more then superficial resemblance to real life.

I would be interested in your opinion on Planetside 2.
 
I've yet to see any game that comes even close to modeling "real" shooting.
But please, please don't assume game shooting has more then superficial resemblance to real life.


Well, there have been a few that were big on inaccuracy and running out of ammo. Tactical sim shooters and the like. As for the feeling of looking down sights and pressing a button or squeezing a trigger, a bunch of FPS' have not done a too-terrible job of emulating that. I speak from the perspective of a mere range shooter and occasional hunter. I do have an armchair, though.

The rest, trigger control, breathing control, trying not to gag from being out of breath and hoping your last shot didn't go somewhere downrange and hit something you didn't want it to, of course a video game can't really emulate that. At least, not from the PCs perspective. An NPC AI can simulate that, however.

Armchair commandos is a pretty wide-ranging pejorative. Are you referring to any particular discussion around here?

Do you just not like FPS? I know plenty of soldiers who play them and at least one cop. They are pretty fun, from time to time.
 
Can't say as I've tried it.
If it's an FPS I probably never will.

It is, and it's free to play.
The reason I brought it up is because of its scale. It's a much more intense atmosphere than say CoD or Battlefield and there is far more paranoia. The ballistic simulation is much better as well.

I am also speaking as a relatively uneducated shooter. I own no firearms though I have shot small calibre rifles and shotguns, (both at targets, clay pigeons and small game,)
 
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