RLKing1969;n10170292 said:I concur. It seems to be lacking a weapons related theme.
Snowflakez;n10170342 said:Shut up, you, we're having a good conversation.
eraser7278;n10170942 said:/me straps spiked shin guards over top of his kickboxing champion's hydrolic powered cyber legs. proceeds to kick things to death with the same damage output as an anti-material rifle.
I'd really rather not see CP2077 turned into a cheap Kung Fu movie.Sardukhar;n10170682 said:On that note, in CP2020, Martial Arts is very deadly since it lets you add your skill to your damage. Melee skill does not. Some house rules and Pacific Rim supplement amend this to allow either Martial Arts using certain weapons or simply Melee skill to add to damage.
Shouuuuld that follow through in 2077? Do you want melee weapons to add player skill to damage? Be aware that melee weapons in 2020 can be pretty deadly as-is.
Suhiira;n10171112 said:I'd really rather not see CP2077 turned into a cheap Kung Fu movie.
Frankly that was one part of the base rules that never made the slightest bit of sense to me. Everything was pretty much reality based ... then you had that whole martial arts thing.
So no ... Martial Arts ... and Melee skills should certainly increase your change to hit, and perhaps decrease your chance to be hit (in melee), but make you hit like Superman? No ... just no.
Aye, I agree with this. Not saying I need to be able to 1v8 as a martial artist against dudes with guns, but it should absolutely be viable and not be made impossible just "becauze realizm".kofeiiniturpa;n10174772 said:Melee and HtH *only" characters should be viable builds, but not in the sense that whoever can handle what ever and everybody's happy. No. The player needs to be responsible and accept that being a martial arts master but knowing next to nothing about firearms necessarily forefeits some content (while on the flipside, it might open something not otherwise obtainable) from him and that he needs to choose his fights extra carefully or be super stealthy.
kofeiiniturpa;n10174772 said:I remember when we still played 2020, how hopeless I felt against a single revolver thug with my not-so-combatitive Corp whthout any gear. I was super lucky because he missed twice and I - not having any weapons - threw a golden pocket watch at him and it was heavy enough that it just happened to knock him out of his feet giving me a chance to escape (it didn't go well from there, though, as I stole a nearby copcar and crashed it because I couldn't drive for shit).
I kinda wish something like that was possible in CP2077. To "weaponize" something in your pocket as a last panic ridden attempt at survival.
Snowflakez;n10174922 said:Not impossible, but yeah, unfortunately it probably won't happen. Same thing happens in D&D. That sort of thing is -- as of right now, in the current state of gaming -- almost exclusive to PnPs. It's sad, because improvisation and working with what you have is some of the most fun you can have in any interactive medium.
Snowflakez;n10174922 said:Not saying I need to be able to 1v8 as a martial artist against dudes with guns, but it should absolutely be viable and not be made impossible just "becauze realizm".
FNFF is not good, clean fun. - CP2020 p.96
eraser7278;n10176502 said:I'm leery making melee/HTH only a viable option for players because once the systems are altered to allow for that, it's just one extra step for NPC's to start making use of such builds. I don't want your fun coming at the cost of my immersion, and the immersion of cyberpunk comes from that realism.
Yes, someone skilled at unarmed combat (be it boxing, street-fighting, or a formal martial art) will know how to use strike for better effect then someone untrained.Sardukhar;n10171562 said:Sure, but user skill absolutely plays a part in effective your hands and weapons are. Unless you want to have more focussed called-shot rules? Even so, people that know -how- to hit, hit very, very much harder than those who don't. It's not like a firearm..technique really plays a part.
Certainly a good start.Sardukhar;n10171562 said:I'd also prefer to see some kind of reduced-but-still- effective bonus like in IU. That's Interlock Unlimited, an improved version of the FNFF rules, in case anyone wonders.
Well ... yeah ...Sardukhar;n10171562 said:Even without the MA bonus, the hydraulic rams/cyberlegs/spike heel combo is crazy dangerous. That's not Kung Fu, that's power/weapon combos. Hell, someone with a Battlefist, Rams and Wolvers is doing better damage, untrained, than an expert striker with years of practice. IIRC.
I certainly agree that all the rules need to apply to both characters and NPCs.eraser7278;n10176502 said:I'm leery making melee/HTH only a viable option for players because once the systems are altered to allow for that, it's just one extra step for NPC's to start making use of such builds. I don't want your fun coming at the cost of my immersion, and the immersion of cyberpunk comes from that realism.
Suhiira;n10176792 said:Given that a switchblade does 1d6/2, a knife 1d6, and brass knuckles 1d6+2 ... and as written none of these weapons add your BTM bonus nor any bonus for skill to their damage. Only a fool would use a melee weapon ... unarmed Martial Arts is far and away superior.
When making a melee attack, you must also add a damage modifier based on your characters body type to any damage.
That I did ... thank you!eraser7278;n10176812 said:think you missed p112
True.eraser7278;n10176812 said:but yes, the wheels really came off when PacRim started letting you add your martial arts damage bonus to weapon attacks. not to mention that the weapon could have a mono edge, making armor only 1/3 as effective... or all the biowear to boost your body type... or the cyber weapons paired with hydrolic limbs STILL getting to add a martial art bonus on top of it. I've got issues with it as well, but most of the time they could be overcome by staying a few meters away and putting a rifle burst into their chest.
Suhiira;n10176792 said:As a side note ... your Cyber Strike with a hydraulic ram does 2d6 ... so is one to assume a Martial Arts strike does say 13 damage can also punch thru concrete walls?