Yes, but again, one game was release 4 years ago, the other was released just recently with a massive budget.
I won't disagree that there's room for improvement, but it feels like comparing apples and oranges.
- Status
I won't disagree that there's room for improvement, but it feels like comparing apples and oranges.
GTA 5 in 2013 on ps3 and 360 and AC unity in 2014 have way better animations. It's true, ubisoft and rockstar are way richer than TW3, but it's AAA games we're talking about. So if TW3 animations were fine in 2015 from THAT CDPR, in 2020 they need to get better, in particular if they claim they want to make us feel immersed.
I strongly disagree that GTA V's animations were better, but that's OK. Plus, we're getting off-topic anyway.
We can both agree that CDPR should up the ante with 2077, but so far, I'm not concerned. I would like to see more animations for picking things up, opening doors and the like, for immersion reasons, as you said. If they claim they with with FPP for immersion, they need to put their money (literally and figuratively) where their mouth is.
I don't understand why they didn't think of/want to include the ability to switch between FPP and TPP from the beginning. In scenes where it was important for us to have a certain perspective they could have locked us into that perspective for that cutscene/conversation but let us switch at will otherwise. Why have such a detailed CC if all you're going to see is floating hands 90+ percent of the time? In addition to everything else, I love seeing the characters that I make and FPP takes that away. Aside from the motion sickness I get from too long in FPP, I also can't connect to my character when I can't see them. I know there are a lot of people that look at those floating hands instead of a full body and can imagine that those are their hands and that it's them in the world but I can't. I can see my real hands holding the controller on top of my real knees inside my real living room in front of my real tv that has fake floating hands on it. Double hands doesn't immerse me or make me feel like I'm there but seeing a character on screen, watching their actions and seeing the emotion on their face, seeing it if they get hurt or fall or whatever, that gets me invested. My floating hands/floating gun "character" could die and be replaced by another over and over again and I wouldn't care. Are my floating hands happy? Sad? Angry? Worried? Who knows and who cares? It's not a character to me and it certainly isn't the real me. If we ever do invent the kind of technology like the holodeck in Star Trek then I'll be completely happy and immersed to use my full and real body to play a game but floating hands and shaky cam don't cut it.
Having the choice to switch back and forth between perspectives would have satisfied both types of people. As much as some people say they love FPP so much and are glad we're all restricted to it...well if we had a choice they could still play solely in that perspective and those of us who like TPP could play the way we like. I know CDPR isn't going to change it, it's just venting at this point but it's depressing to know that an otherwise great game will be severely lessened for me over something so trivial.
Having the choice to switch back and forth between perspectives would have satisfied both types of people. As much as some people say they love FPP so much and are glad we're all restricted to it...well if we had a choice they could still play solely in that perspective and those of us who like TPP could play the way we like. I know CDPR isn't going to change it, it's just venting at this point but it's depressing to know that an otherwise great game will be severely lessened for me over something so trivial.
At this point, I think the best we can hope for is mod support, so that people can potentially make a "sort of" third person mode (it'll probably be clunky, though). Perhaps it could be for exploration only, that should make it easier to mod.
Witcher 3 has an FPP mod for similar purposes (seamlessly switches back to TPP in cutscenes, combat, horse riding).
I wish I could benefit from such a mod, since clunky switching and being limited to exploration would be fine to me but alas I'm a filthy console peasant.
I honestly think they tried to do both perspectives (some very old leaks confirm this), but then realised it was too much work (= money) that they preferred to use for something else. At the same time, the interactive scene system (ISS) works only in FPP. They did the math and decided to cut the most expensive (and conflictual with the ISS) perspective (animating a full body costs more than just 2 hands). Plus, being a shooter, FPP works better for aiming.
I prefer TPP in 99.9% of cases (in particular when you create a character from scratch) and I totally see your point, in particular because you suffer with FPP. Also, the most immersive game I've ever played was RDR2 thanks to its glorious animations, and I mean in thrid-person.
As a fellow peasant, I know the struggle of not having mods: if I could mod level and loot system of TW3 I'd have been extremely happy.
OT:
@Snowflakez you are lucky that I can't find any video about GTA V animations with doors. 
I'm kidding, of course
I'm kidding, of course 
Man guess this is a win for the fpp lovers... so many RPGs are going FPP probably because its cheaper and less hassle. we all know animation work is always tricky. Now that you've said it it is a dissapointing.
Enjoy the game FPP dudes! Cheers!
Post automatically merged:
I honestly think they tried to do both perspectives (some very old leaks confirm this), but then realised it was too much work (= money) that they preferred to use for something else. At the same time, the interactive scene system (ISS) works only in FPP. They did the math and decided to cut the most expensive (and conflictual with the ISS) perspective (animating a full body costs more than just 2 hands). Plus, being a shooter, FPP works better for aiming.
I prefer TPP in 99.9% of cases (in particular when you create a character from scratch) and I totally see your point, in particular because you suffer with FPP. Also, the most immersive game I've ever played was RDR2 thanks to its glorious animations, and I mean in thrid-person.
As a fellow peasant, I know the struggle of not having mods: if I could mod level and loot system of TW3 I'd have been extremely happy.
OT:
@Snowflakez you are lucky that I can't find any video about GTA V animations with doors.
Funny thing is,in the trailer they released. Theres this girl with forearms that has blade, which indicates theres a melee augmentation somewhere in the game, and if they really made this game to be "rpg with shooter elements" although the shooter elements is like almost 90% , they gotta do some serious job on making the melee fpp animation lest it all for nothing and ended up with just your average FPS with RPG elements.
Post automatically merged:
Those who said that they love fpp,given the option to opt put in tpp will most likely use it just to get a clear view of whats changed on V after they augmented her. See the point?
If witcher could get a fpp solely by modders alone, then it shouldnt be a problem for CDPR to apply the tpp.
If they really want us to feel the ISS, i'm okay if the dialogue and shits are being done forcefully in fpp. Just please let me do the gunfight in tpp cuz i love seeing good animations.
And also, they didnt even add the "lean agaisnt the wall" animation in fpp. Should atleast at that at the very least.
Last edited:
Well since modder make a modding tool for Witcher 3, i am sure they will make TPP mod for CP2077 i will be happy to wait for it.
At least Obsidian was honest and tell they know people want 3rd person perspective and Mod support, they didn't try to act smart and tell us hey we know you like 3rd person, but you know what we know better than you what you like so thats why game is 1st person only.
At least Obsidian was honest and tell they know people want 3rd person perspective and Mod support, they didn't try to act smart and tell us hey we know you like 3rd person, but you know what we know better than you what you like so thats why game is 1st person only.
And one more thing, i read somewhere that you can see yourself in mirrors or something. Unless they got serious bamboozle about how mirrors works inside a game then they must have done the 3rd person animation but is forcing the perspective in 1st person.
I also saw that in their ISS i saw v's thigh are doing a sitting pose on the sude of a bathtub. If they did that, then i assume the entire body is already animated,just need to drag the camera point aware from the head.
I also saw that in their ISS i saw v's thigh are doing a sitting pose on the sude of a bathtub. If they did that, then i assume the entire body is already animated,just need to drag the camera point aware from the head.
Again, it's not that simple. The entire world around V might be designed to be looked at from FPP. WHERE you put the camera, when the room you're in has low ceilings, lack of lighting and where miscellaneous object detail can get in the way, really does matter.
A game like Mass Effect, which is the most familiar TPP game I know, deliberately designs ALL its rooms and settings to be clear-cut larger halls and hallways with a clearance of two floors in height minimum and barely any verticality. TPP person games are very nearly always 2D mazes with very little height.
If you look at the Demo, where V is in the Den of the heavily augmented gang, it's small, narrow, claustrophic and there's verticality involved as she climbs the appartment . If you "just" detach the camera to be behind V, it's going to get stuck everywhere and might skip on showing you important environmental clues.
The only solution to that would be to either re-design the entire game and get rid of the verticality (meaning bye bye all the functional skyscrapers and the city part of Night City), or program the camera where to be and look as V tranverses the game (also no as that would be a tremendous undertaking).
The difference between 1st and 3rd person view, really is a big difference in deciding how to present information to your audience. It's film-making (and game-development) 101.
Again, I'd love to have TPP included, but I suspect it's more a matter of redesigning the game and maybe doubling the workload, instead of just altering a line of code.
Last edited:
I would really like more they try to do TPP than to spend money and time doing Multiplayer.
And not to wait to see if some modder will make TPP, like they waited for a modder to make modding tool for witcher 3.
And not to wait to see if some modder will make TPP, like they waited for a modder to make modding tool for witcher 3.
Amen. I'm spoiling for proper big budget single player games. The effort is better spent ANYWHERE else. TPP would be good, so would additional story content.
Though, if CDPR is looking to monetize the multiplayer, I'd be willing to allow them an avenue to make money. They deserve some success and financial security.
And yeah, I know they've said:
"Worry not. When thinking CP2077, think nothing less than TW3 - huge single player, open world, story-driven RPG. No hidden catch, you get what you pay for - no bullshit, just honest gaming like Wild Hunt. We leave greed to other.
But that's them referring to the SINGLE-PLAYER part. I'll find it hard to believe that after they implement multiplayer, they're also going to operate the servers for us completely for free.
S
Right FPP is THE ONLY true way to enjoy the game. I'll take the fact that someone decided something for me and its 2019. But again its not my right to tell them to add a TPP, i played FO4 and some of the locations were quite narrow and cluttered, nothing seems to be a problem. GTA with skyscraper, Saints Row, Watchdogs. I donno man, if they say its only FPP then i'll just accept that. Theres always a way to make things work, you just need to have the will to figure it out. Ya know the animation when V is sliding down the floor? Shit looks just like how sliding works in apex legends. They can slide and grt back on their feet with both hands still holding their gun. I'd say this is black magic,but hey... "RPG with SHOOTER ELEMENTS."
Right FPP is THE ONLY true way to enjoy the game. I'll take the fact that someone decided something for me and its 2019. But again its not my right to tell them to add a TPP, i played FO4 and some of the locations were quite narrow and cluttered, nothing seems to be a problem. GTA with skyscraper, Saints Row, Watchdogs. I donno man, if they say its only FPP then i'll just accept that. Theres always a way to make things work, you just need to have the will to figure it out. Ya know the animation when V is sliding down the floor? Shit looks just like how sliding works in apex legends. They can slide and grt back on their feet with both hands still holding their gun. I'd say this is black magic,but hey... "RPG with SHOOTER ELEMENTS."
As I said 1000 times, big fan of TPP here, but I think we should be happy that devs for once have decided to be brave and follow their vision for the game. Potentially, they could make the best FPP experience so far (interactive scene system goes in that direction). It's a similar concept to rockstar making all those animations for RDR2 even if some people don't like them because they prefer an arcade approach to an immersive one: they ignored it and made the best animations ever seen in a videogame, setting the bar. Let's see if CDPR can set the bar for FPP.
I understand people who feel sick with FPP, but people who hate because they just suck at it (I was one of them until 3 years ago, still not a pro, by far) should at least give it a try, you can find a lot of FPP games for less than 5€/$.
From an egoistic point of view, I'd prefer TPP, but if I can't have something as good as RDR2 (or at least GTA V), I prefer a good FPP to both FPP and TPP where FPP looks like borderlands 2 and TPP looks like fortnite and its terrible animation. Or fallout 4, it sucked in both perspectives, the same since skyrim in 2011. Ridiculous.
I understand people who feel sick with FPP, but people who hate because they just suck at it (I was one of them until 3 years ago, still not a pro, by far) should at least give it a try, you can find a lot of FPP games for less than 5€/$.
From an egoistic point of view, I'd prefer TPP, but if I can't have something as good as RDR2 (or at least GTA V), I prefer a good FPP to both FPP and TPP where FPP looks like borderlands 2 and TPP looks like fortnite and its terrible animation. Or fallout 4, it sucked in both perspectives, the same since skyrim in 2011. Ridiculous.
Yes, 100% this.
I was terrified when I saw how many people were complaining about Red Dead Redemption 2's animations. I absolutely loved it, and admired Rockstar for as you said, following their vision despite public outcry.
And guess what? The game went on to sell a ridiculous number of copies. So the gamble paid off. Good on them.
The only thing I'm concerned about here is that this game might have no or very crappy mod support, so a potential modded TPP in the future may never happen. The Witcher 3's was very not-good compared to its predecessors (the amazing feats modders have pulled off in TW3 is in spite of CDPR, not because of them). I want full modding tools for this game. Let players make new animations, models, quests, mods, entire zones... Whatever the heck they want, let them do it. It can only be a good thing for CDPR.
Also, I very much understand why people don't want FPP, and it doesn't have to do with them sucking at the games in most cases. It's because they want to see their characters and the beautiful animations - cloth physics, hair physics, impact animations (getting shot/punched)... It feels good.
If some game sells well, it don't mean is good, best example is Call of Duty serie, last good game was Call of Duty Warfare after that, they just copy past game over and over and over , and add even more stupid perks, stupid kill strike, and totally ruin the game they make a lot of money but game is total shit.
As some one who feel more connected with my character in TPP, FPP only ruin game to big degree for me, i don't have motion sickness and i did play a lot of FPP games, but end up liking them less and less, FPP only ruin game even more for me if that game is RPG.
As some one who feel more connected with my character in TPP, FPP only ruin game to big degree for me, i don't have motion sickness and i did play a lot of FPP games, but end up liking them less and less, FPP only ruin game even more for me if that game is RPG.
Every time I check this tread I get sad vibes. When I think about my ideal RPG the first thing that comes to my head is full customization, and by saying that I mean "do what you want with looks and story, and see all of this stuff in your model while living the game".
When I first heard of CP2077 my first thought was "I'm gonna go full yakuza cyborg ninja, with some crazy tattoos, maybe some retro katana on the forearm! My character is gonna be baddass". Even though we didn't have a lot of information on the game, I assumed it was going to be (obviously) a third person oriented one because, you know, cyberpunk RPG with character creator by The Witcher game series... But then CDPR went silent for all these years.
And then there was the E3 trailer which came with the information that CDPR went full FPP. I was legit shocked. I didn't fell angry or anything like that, I just felt confused. It didn't make sense. I thought "why on this earth would they waste such opportunity?".
Here on Brazil we have a popular saying to that - "ter a faca e o queijo na mão", roughly translated to "someone is in the catbird's seat" and still waste this advantage.
But then there was the first gameplay trailer and I realized it wasn't going to be a "Vampire: Cyberpunk Edition, or Fallout: New 2077", like Snowflakez said on another tread, and I kinda went with it because I love Cyberpunk stuff and the hype grew strong on me.
But I gotta say every time someone reminds me about the first person perspective being major in the game, I get slighty saddened and kinda frustrated (by the wasted potential) that this is not going to be the dream Cyberpunk RPG.
When I first heard of CP2077 my first thought was "I'm gonna go full yakuza cyborg ninja, with some crazy tattoos, maybe some retro katana on the forearm! My character is gonna be baddass". Even though we didn't have a lot of information on the game, I assumed it was going to be (obviously) a third person oriented one because, you know, cyberpunk RPG with character creator by The Witcher game series... But then CDPR went silent for all these years.
And then there was the E3 trailer which came with the information that CDPR went full FPP. I was legit shocked. I didn't fell angry or anything like that, I just felt confused. It didn't make sense. I thought "why on this earth would they waste such opportunity?".
Here on Brazil we have a popular saying to that - "ter a faca e o queijo na mão", roughly translated to "someone is in the catbird's seat" and still waste this advantage.
But then there was the first gameplay trailer and I realized it wasn't going to be a "Vampire: Cyberpunk Edition, or Fallout: New 2077", like Snowflakez said on another tread, and I kinda went with it because I love Cyberpunk stuff and the hype grew strong on me.
But I gotta say every time someone reminds me about the first person perspective being major in the game, I get slighty saddened and kinda frustrated (by the wasted potential) that this is not going to be the dream Cyberpunk RPG.
- Status