Game Difficulty - will Cyberpunk ever be made remotely challenging?

[Attidd]

I managed to do the game with a perkless run and avoiding legendary & iconic gear on Very Hard and was still one hit killing enemies with revolvers. To anyone who tells others they should just handicap their self for a challenge. The AI & balance is so bad you'd have to play the game barefooted for a challenge. Which is not fun to me.

 

[Zaqwert]

CDPR doesn't do game balance well at all. Witcher 3 was an incredible game but the difficulty balancing was one of the weakest aspects.

The difficulty and game balance in Cyberpunk 2077 is absolutely awful. Too many things are grossly overpowered, some skills and perks and trees far, far superior to others, etc. Why do melee weapons do such insane damage? Why are certain quickhacks just god mode?

It's way too busted to be fixed in future patches. I don't think they put much effort into balancing the game difficulty and system to be honest.

They got away with it with Witcher 3 because that game was so otherwise awesome but it stands out worse in Cyberpunk.

 

[Gen_Liu]

I completely agree with this topic's subject, the game is unballanced beyond belief.

Basically, as Johny described, the problem is on both sides.

They have to tune down both the player and enemy's damage because at the moment, the entire game's balance makes no sense (snipers, for example, kill you in one shot through walls and without warning because the laser seems completely bugged and don't appear half of the time).
Another enemy type that's broken are the minigun weilders. They don't one shot you but they take off 1/3 of your health per bullet (sometimes even half)...Which is awkward, considering they shoot about 5 bullets per second.

It's fixable but there's a lot to be done.
The player part being, by far, the most difficult since they sprayed Crit chance and Crit damage everywhere. Attributes, Perks, Cyberwares, Weapons...They have to look into everything and reduce the numbers so that a single player can't get beyond 30% Crit chance and say 200% Crit damage (have to be tested to find the sweet spot).

To be completely honest, I would, personally, remove the RNG when it stand to Critical hit. You hit a weak point, such as the heart or the head, Crit, otherwise it should just be normal damage.
Crit chance only make sense in games like Dark souls where targetting a specific part of an enemy's body is complicated or downright impossible.

They also have to control damage inflation throughout the game. I sometimes find weapons that does 3 or sometimes 4 times the damage of other weapons of the same level for roughly the same stats which should simply not happen.

Then there's the hacking problem which goes even deeper since hacking may be even more broken than shooting/meleeing...

Ballancing enemies is easier. Just lower their damage (and fix the bugs for Snipers, so their laser appear properly).

There's also some very poor design decisions that needs to be looked into, imo.
For example, why on earth, did they have to put explosives everywhere (and why vehicles blowup so easily), it makes it a pain in the butt to just move around and causes some extremely cheap death because it's humanly impossible to make sure that you're not standing next to one at any given time (I don't understand the upgrades that reduce explosion damage, btw, considering it's one shot whether I have resistance or not...Am I less dead when I'm protected?).

It's way too busted to be fixed in future patches. I don't think they put much effort into balancing the game difficulty and system to be honest.

It's sad to say but I think you may be right.
It's fixable but I don't see CDPR putting that much work into something that's not a bug, essentially.

 

[psyclum]

all they really needed is to rework the lvl cap of the mobs for each district... watson-20, japan-30, santo domingo/badlands-35, pacifica-40, city center-50, mikoshi-60.

basically that's it. maybe re-balance some of the missions to allow for smoother level progression through each area and we are done. it's almost like nobody here has played red skulls...

 

[Ziffa]

Is anyone forcing you to use weapons that deal so much damage?
You know you can just use something that doesn't one-shot everything.

Doesn't matter the weapons you use, once you spec properly with skills and mods you shred everything.
The game is ok till level 20-25.

 

[Hexipoo]

Doesn't matter the weapons you use, once you spec properly with skills and mods you shred everything.
The game is ok till level 20-25.

Unless you laser-focus on something. You can have the Sandevistan from Vik at lvl10 (has 16 reflex requirement) which trivializes everything the game throws at you from that point on. Then get the sword from the Heist and you'll never die unless you stand next to something explosive.

Same thing with Int. You can get to Int 20 at level 14 and craft your own legendary quickhacks and just destroy everything even before you do the Heist because you can reach that easily if you do everything in Watson.

 

[batouyukinawa]

What about the hardest mode? I've noticed on Hard everything one shots me if I'm out in the open. I have to be more strategic about how I plan my attack. My body is like 3-4 though. Maybe try doing builds with this low stat. Makes you way less spongy.

 

[psyclum]

What about the hardest mode? I've noticed on Hard everything one shots me if I'm out in the open. I have to be more strategic about how I plan my attack. My body is like 3-4 though. Maybe try doing builds with this low stat. Makes you way less spongy.

it doesnt matter really. you can 1 shot adam smasher if you are 20 levels above him... it's all about what lvl the mob you are killing relative to V's own lvl. you can run around with a potato gun and 1shot everything as long as the mobs are 20 lvls below you. all you have to do is look at all those youtube's that are showing 100+ million dmg and see that they are lvl 50 and they are killing some poor shmuck in watson... yah.. my pimped out gun build just 1 shooted some mob 40 lvl's below me for 500million dmg... clickbait.

 

[Hexipoo]

What about the hardest mode? I've noticed on Hard everything one shots me if I'm out in the open. I have to be more strategic about how I plan my attack. My body is like 3-4 though. Maybe try doing builds with this low stat. Makes you way less spongy.

If you play Reflex and use Sandevistan, no one can react fast enough to shoot you. If you play Int, no one will even see you before you Thanos Snap them. If you play Body you take so little damage and regen so much that it doesn't matter.

The problem is that people use crap builds with 0 thought put into stacking bonuses and then cry.

The point is, that you can stack so much +% damage that shit just completely breaks.

 

[oomwoc]

You can stack so much armor through 2-slot epic gear (that you can buy from clothing stores) that Trauma Team + the MaxTac squad beamed in from the mothership can't even make your health drop while you stand still diddling yourself.

The difference between a run where you don't slot Armadillo mods and a run where you do is night and day on challenge/survival. My first blind run was as a netrunner. I didn't know that armadillo scaled past +8 armor (lol) so despite eventually being able to force armies to commit suicide, I would still die very quickly if an enemy found me. Felt almost balanced. Second run was as a Sandevistan blade reflex + body + cool, and as soon as I saw a clothing store selling +180 armor mods the threat level went down to zero.

 

[Krul2k]

I remember Dragon Age Inquisition released an one of the complaints leveled against it was that it's top difficulty setting, nightmare i believe, wasn't exactly very challenging which tbh it wasn't, even after they had ripped my poor spirit healer out, anyhoo they agreed it was to easy so they introduced trials i believe they were called, Skulls i think there called in Halo.

Basically you choose these "trials" at the start just before or alongside creating your character and they setup your world, you could have things active like all enemies scale with you, you recieve less xp, enemies skill sets are randomized, enemies have more resists, longer cooldowns etc etc etc you get the idea

The good thing about this method is it's entirely opt in, if you have zero problem with how things are then nothing changes but if you think things are to easy and want more of a challenge then im sure CDPR could make "trials" in such away as to give it without interrupting those who have no problem even on highest diffulty but want to continue playing there do so but also offer those who wish to be challenged the means to do it

 

[Hexipoo]

I remember Dragon Age Inquisition released an one of the complaints leveled against it was that it's top difficulty setting, nightmare i believe, wasn't exactly very challenging which tbh it wasn't, even after they had ripped my poor spirit healer out, anyhoo they agreed it was to easy so they introduced trials i believe they were called, Skulls i think there called in Halo.

Basically you choose these "trials" at the start just before or alongside creating your character and they setup your world, you could have things active like all enemies scale with you, you recieve less xp, enemies skill sets are randomized, enemies have more resists, longer cooldowns etc etc etc you get the idea

The good thing about this method is it's entirely opt in, if you have zero problem with how things are then nothing changes but if you think things are to easy and want more of a challenge then im sure CDPR could make "trials" in such away as to give it without interrupting those who have no problem even on highest diffulty but want to continue playing there do so but also offer those who wish to be challenged the means to do it

You don't get it.

It does not matter how much they crank numbers up, the game is fundamentally broken. What does it matter how much HP the enemy has when you can slow time to the point that you can hit an enemy 10 times with a sword before they can react, or use an infinitely bouncing plague from across the street without anyone even knowing you're there?

The difference between a bad build and a good build is like the sun and the moon. There is no way to balance this mess out without scrapping it entirely and starting from scratch.

 

[Krul2k]

You don't get it.

It does not matter how much they crank numbers up, the game is fundamentally broken. What does it matter how much HP the enemy has when you can slow time to the point that you can hit an enemy 10 times with a sword before they can react, or use an infinitely bouncing plague from across the street without anyone even knowing you're there?

The difference between a bad build and a good build is like the sun and the moon.

I dont get what exactly?

Some ppl find the game easy?

Some are fine with that?

Balancing needs to happen?

Nerfs will occur?

Or that all im saying is they could introduce a means that doesn't intrude on how ppl currently enjoy playing the game while giving ppl who find it to easy a way to make it happen?

Because you find a game easy and because i back slap you into agreement means nothing to the next person who enjoys being OP an going around 1 shotting everything, why should there enjoyment be destroyed for yours?? And dont say play on a lower difficulty then because it can equallty be said for you to go play something harder.

"Trials" can mean anything, they can limit anything including what the player skills do, they can stop that contagion bounce, make hacking or shooting through walls impossible etc etc the only limiting factor is whats introduced or player imagination on using them

 

[SaphironX]

So at around lvl 20-25 I'm doing like ridiculous amount of dmg. I can one shot every enemy with sniper/Buria or 2-3 shot with machinegun.
At lvl 50 the games is easier than journalist mode. There is absolutely no balance anywhere.
Enemies have like 12k life and this is how much I do with one shot to the head without min/max skills (didn't touch Cool skill tree).

View attachment 11158370

On a side note I have 4650 defense and it does absolutely nothing. Still 1-3 shots and I'm dead to low threat enemies.

Good god, I just made a thread like this, except i'm level 30 and murdering everything with no damage upgrades on very hard. Trying to avoid damage perks for fear of exactly this.

I mean 1500 dps will kill anything at my level even on VH. What is the point of 845000?

Post automatically merged: Jan 28, 2021

I dont get what exactly?

Some ppl find the game easy?

Some are fine with that?

Balancing needs to happen?

Nerfs will occur?

Or that all im saying is they could introduce a means that doesn't intrude on how ppl currently enjoy playing the game while giving ppl who find it to easy a way to make it happen?

Because you find a game easy and because i back slap you into agreement means nothing to the next person who enjoys being OP an going around 1 shotting everything, why should there enjoyment be destroyed for yours?? And dont say play on a lower difficulty then because it can equallty be said for you to go play something harder.

"Trials" can mean anything, they can limit anything including what the player skills do, they can stop that contagion bounce, make hacking or shooting through walls impossible etc etc the only limiting factor is whats introduced or player imagination on using them

Dude they have that, it's easy and normal mode. I mean me, I like games on hard, I don't play very hard ever really, but hard, okay. I like a challenge but a reasonable one.

Avoiding all damage perks for fear of getting so OP the game isn't fun anymore on the hardest possible difficulty is not what you describe. Becoming OP is fine in game. It can be awesome. I like to feel powerful in a game.

Wiping out most encounters with 2-3 shots from an SMG per bad guy with no SMG perks or iconic weapons, and having green guns 2x as strong as your purple is just broken scaling. Like absolutely broken.

I mean it's very hard, the ultimate challenge, and i had to go to it because i love the game but man, hard mode is so easy even with hardware that stops all quickhacking in favor of other abilities, that fighting wasn't fun anymore.

The game needs balance. Hard should be hard. Very hard should be a rush, if not prohibitively challenging. Normal should be fairly low key, easy should be relaxing as heck.

Post automatically merged: Jan 28, 2021

I remember Dragon Age Inquisition released an one of the complaints leveled against it was that it's top difficulty setting, nightmare i believe, wasn't exactly very challenging which tbh it wasn't, even after they had ripped my poor spirit healer out, anyhoo they agreed it was to easy so they introduced trials i believe they were called, Skulls i think there called in Halo.

Basically you choose these "trials" at the start just before or alongside creating your character and they setup your world, you could have things active like all enemies scale with you, you recieve less xp, enemies skill sets are randomized, enemies have more resists, longer cooldowns etc etc etc you get the idea

The good thing about this method is it's entirely opt in, if you have zero problem with how things are then nothing changes but if you think things are to easy and want more of a challenge then im sure CDPR could make "trials" in such away as to give it without interrupting those who have no problem even on highest diffulty but want to continue playing there do so but also offer those who wish to be challenged the means to do it

See options like that I could get behind.

If i could do all the content at moderate or even high danger regardless of level, with enemies that scale. And maybe weapon scaling was toned down a bit so weapon mods mattered and perks were desirable or even necessary, that'd be awesome.

Like... i don't want the perk to make my wall piercing shotgun ignore armor. I don't need it. It's almost instant death on very hard without any damage perks taken on my character. I like like 19 perk points right now and I'm trying to spend them only on things that won't make me more lethal.

On very hard, that is a crazy thought process, but if i take the damage increasing ones... it'll be so easy it won't be fun anymore.

 

[RecceJack]

Lol. Still over here having great fun with my build.

Don't pick crit boosts, don't pick damage boosts, don't make yourself ridiculous and the game is great.


If you're competent with round placement, you don't need more power...

In my own life experience, handling & manipulation are the most important attributes of a gunfight..

You got options in the perks that address this directly..


Reload, Recoil & Mobility options.

You already gain forced crit boosts just from upgrading certain attributes. That's without even touching perks or cyberware.

You also can use Ping & a legendary Cyberdeck with base 3 Intelligence. So there's no reason to go higher than 3 Intelligence unless you wanna do access points or be bored with the game.

The build I've formulated comes to
20 Body
19 Cool
18 Reflexes
11 Technical
3 Intelligence

Attribute base alone, that's +15% Crit Chance & +32% Crit Damage with +40% Armor. Now, I also don't go for high armor clothes.

Even on my 1st & primary street kid save, I still have V mainly wearing the starter Street Tongues and I've only upgraded them to 32 armor.

I buy the legendary Subdermal Armor early in and that's 200 armor naked... I find higher health to make far more sense than armor because armor has never protected me from fall damage that I can tell, then you can also take combat damage and still dip near death, so you gotta actually cover & move and use the max. Instead of standing out in the open..

I also only aim for center mass, nobody in real life is going around aiming for heads, you always aim for center mass. At least nobody doing CQB.. That's inefficient.

So in the game, my enemies have a greater opportunity and the playing field is pretty level. I'm not a sponge and they aren't hot butter. I take the crutch hacking out of the equation, I don't use grenades with the purpose of killing, I don't use crutch weapons. It's much easier to play how most people seem to play this game, because I have tested a lot. I can take far less damage running around without using tactics and just shooting everything, same with swords and gorilla arms.. It's much harder and I take way more damage with my style than playing those other styles with my same build. I can clear an entire OC skull using a katana and barely take any damage, same character, build & hub using my style and I'm near death a few times. Even with me doing everything correctly. Smaller groups, I don't have any issues. But that's how it should be.


I've said a few times, the way I have approached this game has delivered me with the most enjoyable video game combat experience I've ever had and all I've played since '97 is sports games, crime games & war shooters. I don't do wizards, elves, zombies & goblins.. The only warlocks I fuck with are from Yonkers. That's 66 whatever percent of everything devoted to this particular subject. Take my approach, formulate it to you and try it. No damage modifiers, no 600+ armor, power weapons only, cover..


I might post my whole in depth build soon, I had most of it from 3 different saves, but polished it with the guide book & a build calculator.. Might grab some video too, I don't think people understand what I mean by flow.

 

[Hexipoo]

Yeah, and there is no FPS drops while driving through the city, just don't buy a fast car cause if you do, it's your fault that the game engine is barely holding together.

 

[ya1]

The mechanics are bugged and unfinished. Not just badly designed. Just like everything else. The whole game is in pre-alpha state that they managed to patch to relative playability throughout Dec. And everyone (with a brain) knows it. They just didn't finish making the game when they realized they can't run the engine on old gen and gotta fix that first and foremost (and they are still full speed at it...) . If you look closely, the game is a straight up mess. Just look at the AI. Or the remnants of cut content cluttering everywhere. Game mechanics are probably also a placeholder they outlined some years ago and never had time to actually get it done.

Second, most probably they are not gonna fix it. The majority of people don't know how to crit a mil and never realize that half the perks are broken. But everyone sees the glitches and feels the crashes. Right now balance is deep down low on the priority list, maybe not even on the list. I think gotta wait for mods...

Third, from the active playstyles (meaning excluding hacks), melee is most broken imo. That's because Sandevistan does not slow down melee dps (bugged probably?). So you get yet another total multiplier. Snipers get you those crits in the millions but it doesn't matter. Melee got most true dps (true as in dmg exceeding enemy health doesn't count). EDIT: I forgot about Buzzsaw... Buzzsaw is probablty most broken in the game.

Fourth, I believe that once serious mods start coming, CP will achieve true nirvana. This game has so much potential. I regret I finished it now that is in such a sorry state.

I hated bullet sponge mechanics

Wrong game then. It's a looter shooter not a battlefield simulator. Ofc you need unrealistic dmg mechanics.

the person who enjoys being OP an going around 1 shotting everything, why should there enjoyment be destroyed for yours??

Because I pick very hard where they say: "a serious challenge (...) careful char dev and clever use of mechanics necessary." That guy can pick easy where they say: "combat will not pose a challenge."

In my personal opinion, the last ultimate difficulty setting should be like you gotta know the mechanics by heart and optimize everything to even stand a chance, and then get some decent apm in to clear the game.

 

[psyclum]

IMO, once they have fixed the game and do some rebalancing, they need to come out with at least 2 additional difficulties. an insanity and a survival difficulty. maybe a hardcore mode for NG+

for those who don't know,
insanity would take into account of skill synergies as well as save scumed gear. for a REALLY difficulty experience. basically like all mobs you meet are red skull level.

survival would be just that, insanity + the need to eat / drink / sleep and craft/buy bullets. resource drought mode basically so increased RAM cost across the board for hacks and very few junk/bullets/food/water to loot etc.

hardcore = 1 life. you die, game over, roll credits.

 

[CS554]

How you can struggle in here is beyond me.

I'm not sure why you also quoted my post.

There are builds that can be very powerful, the thing is, that they are not the only builds people use or find interesting. Now game could be balanced around power builds, but that would absolutely suck for players using melee builds.

What I have been trying to say, is that via optional challenge modes you can get yours and rest of the players can have theirs.

Post automatically merged: Jan 28, 2021

Wrong game then. It's a looter shooter not a battlefield simulator. Ofc you need unrealistic dmg mechanics.

I describe that gun battles what I used worked very well for me. And how exactly is dropping enemy with shotgun shot to head from 1 meter unrealistic? Are you okay?

 

[Johny_Mnemonic69]

You can stack so much armor through 2-slot epic gear (that you can buy from clothing stores) that Trauma Team + the MaxTac squad beamed in from the mothership can't even make your health drop while you stand still diddling yourself.

The difference between a run where you don't slot Armadillo mods and a run where you do is night and day on challenge/survival. My first blind run was as a netrunner. I didn't know that armadillo scaled past +8 armor (lol) so despite eventually being able to force armies to commit suicide, I would still die very quickly if an enemy found me. Felt almost balanced. Second run was as a Sandevistan blade reflex + body + cool, and as soon as I saw a clothing store selling +180 armor mods the threat level went down to zero.

How much total armor you got by the end? I had 4650 armor on lvl 50 and even basic gonk could kill me with 2 shots, and teleporting police could 1 shot me 100% of the time.

Post automatically merged: Jan 28, 2021

There are builds that can be very powerful, the thing is, that they are not the only builds people use or find interesting. Now game could be balanced around power builds, but that would absolutely suck for players using melee builds.

I specificaly said I wasn't using any build. Just put all points I had (and there is lots of them) into crafting and my weapon of choice - rifles/machineguns plus used mods and cyberware for crits. Thats it. Game "balance" breaks at this point. It takes like 15-20h?