What players think of combat system and different classes of firearms?

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How do players feel about combat and weapon / weapon classes (pistols, shotguns, submachine guns, rifles, etc.)?

There's some conflicting information about how combat works and I wonder how much confirmation bias has to do with that. Further I have been thinking about conversation in other topic which prompted more questions. For me weapon classes work and I have been able to find a right weapons to do my playing style and also mixing things up a bit. I'm not interested about having entirely new features such as different ammo types but wonder what could be done with what there's in game now.

This is not a suggestion but I hope players would share their thoughts in context of what is above.


Silenced weapons / stealth.

While silenced handguns work very well in single headshot elimination, there are factors that could be perhaps improved.

Noise

Silenced handguns:

Weapon noise: Missing a shot from relative far distance should not alert enemies, unless...
Bullet: missed bullet going near enemy NPC causing pressure wave that can be felt, bullet hits hard surface or other objects causing noise that can be heard by enemy NPC's. For example, even if bullet hits a wall far from intended target, there might be other enemy NPC's near that wall alerted by noise.


Silenced submachine guns:

Thinking two power SMG's, Darra Polytechnics DS1 Pulsar and Militech M221 Saratoga, with fire rate of 8.89 for Pulsar and 6.90 rounds for M221, even with M221 that would leave 0.14 seconds for reacting to first bullet and 0.28 secs when second one hits and 0.42 secs for third.

I tried looking up information regarding detection time and found out only that detection time gets shorter by difficulty level, not exact time in seconds. That leaves rest of this a bit difficult to debate but: If silenced SMG should be powerful enough to eliminate enemy with two headshots (0.28 secs window) or even with 3 shots in case of M221 without alerting rest of enemies and with related damage perks, also regarding taking advantage of cover and Skull Skipper (Each headshot reduces recoil with Rifles and Submachine Guns by 5% for 10 sec. Stacks up to 5 times).

Silenced submachine guns would be intuitive choice for ranges between a pistol and assault rifle as typically lower caliber is associated with bullets not penetrating enemy target completely (and causing noise, hitting another NPC).


Silenced assault rifles:

AFAIK there's only one silenced weapon that can headshot high level enemy NPC's from far distance and that's Ajax assault rifle obtainable only by crafting.

There's couple of things with that making that bit unintuitive choice. First, assault rifles and high caliber sniper rifles tend to be suppressed rather than silenced. I don't know if there's international consensus about terms but suppressing sound doesn't usually mean silenced, but that it makes it difficult to locate where sound of shot came from.

Second, while it makes sense such technology to exists in CP 2077 universe, silencer with assault rifle is doing quite a few things, also reducing velocity of bullet to level where it doesn't break the sound barrier

Third, I don't know if silenced assault rifle shots do penetrate enemy NPC or not. With assault rifles and sniper rifles, intuitive way to think of them is that bullet is likely to penetrate target completely. What that means for stealth, is that while enemy is single shotted, bullet might still hit solid object causing noise or other NPC.


Silenced sniper rifle, custom (Overwatch):

There's only one silenced sniper rifle in game. Overwatch has built in silencer but silencer doesn't appear to be working, at least all the time. I have read conflicting reports from here and LowSodiumCyberpunk regarding that.

With Overwatch similar questions regarding silencing it apply as with silenced assault rifles, but description says silenced so there it is. However feature isn't working which leads to other thoughts:
  • Description meant to say suppressed instead of silenced, but that wouldn't achieve anything as AFAIK there's no known difference at the moment at least, between silencing and suppressing that would make practical difference to NPC reactions.
  • Is Overwatch working as intended regardless of what description says?

SMG:s still have utility especially for low Body characters as they are lighter than assault rifles. SMG's can be great backup but I'm uncertain, if there's gameplay scenario where silencer with them has practical value in gameplay terms.

I might be wrong with details here, so I would like to know what people think and if there's something that could be made to feature suggestion.
 
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For all weapons, it generally depend of your critic stats :)
All can be used if :
100% crit chances, the higher crit bonus possible and mods/perks to increase your stealth/headshot damages (And be sure to not shoot anywhere other than in the head).
For handguns :
  • A "simple" legendary Lexington (with good mods) could be "good enough", if you have 100% crit chances and more than 250% crit bonus (if you aim the head obviously).
  • If you don't want to always aim the head, an Overture is perfect. It's "one shot" whatever the part of the body.
For assault rifles/SMGs :
  • It's a little bit the same, but no way, it always require to aim the head.
  • Exceptions are those who fire burst... You'll always a risk to be detected (or at best alert enemies).
And Overwatch, it work, but not always... So for stealth, in my opinion, it's not a good choice :(

Last word, it don't require any body skill for handguns, assault rifles and SMGs, all are in Reflex skill. So Body skill for stealth/silenced weapon is really useless (in stealth, you don't need high armor, you don't need high health or high stamina. it's just if you want) :)
 
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For assault rifles/SMGs :
  • It's a little bit the same, but no way, it always require to aim the head.
  • Exceptions are those who fire burst... You'll always a risk to be detected (or at best alert enemies).
So there's perhaps user scenario for silenced SMG after all. With silenced SMG's is alert status caused by missed shot or what?

And Overwatch, it work, but not always... So for stealth, in my opinion, it's not a good choice :(
Do you have any theory what could cause inconsistency? Only thing I could think of would be bullet hitting hard surface, other NPC, etc. which could alert other NPC's. Bullet's can penetrate multiple NPC's but AFAIK there's no evidence that game models noise factor.

Last word, it don't require any body skill for handguns, assault rifles and SMGs, all are in Reflex skill. So Body skill for stealth/silenced weapon is really useless (in stealth, you don't need high armor, you don't need high health or high stamina. it's just if you want) :)
I meant light weight weapon as related to Body / carry weight. Thought that would be obvious.
 
I find that some weapons or builds can overshadow the usefulness of weapon variety. Like revolvers and snipers. They basically have the same usable range with revolvers having all the advantages (speed, silencer, magazine, reload speed).
IMHO sniper shouldn't reveal you past certain distance. Just put enemies on alert and maybe taking covers and moving in general direction of your last shot. Now you just get rained with bullets and rushed in any decent vantage point.

Similar things with other weapons.
 
So there's perhaps user scenario for silenced SMG after all. With silenced SMG's is alert status caused by missed shot or what?
I often used Fenrir or Problem Solver with silencer, and it's like all the weapons with "law damage per shot" (Lexington - handgun, copperhead - assault rifles), you have to kill in one shot or at least very, very quickly :)
No misfiring allowed^^
Do you have any theory what could cause inconsistency? Only thing I could think of would be bullet hitting hard surface, other NPC, etc. which could alert other NPC's. Bullet's can penetrate multiple NPC's but AFAIK there's no evidence that game models noise factor.
Sorry, nope :(
The only thing that I suppose, either it's a bug, either it's because Grads are very (too) powerful and pierce even the walls (as tech weapons).
 
I find that some weapons or builds can overshadow the usefulness of weapon variety. Like revolvers and snipers. They basically have the same usable range with revolvers having all the advantages (speed, silencer, magazine, reload speed).
IMHO sniper shouldn't reveal you past certain distance. Just put enemies on alert and maybe taking covers and moving in general direction of your last shot. Now you just get rained with bullets and rushed in any decent vantage point.

Similar things with other weapons.
Yeah, that's a bit funny considering that there's only one silenced sniper rifle in game and that is at least inconsistent in one thing that makes is supposed to make it special. I don't know what to think myself. During my last playthrough with 1.3 I sniped certain cyberspycho at Badlands and he was alerted by first hit naturally, but I was able to land more shots as it took some time before he came down from certain location and started rushing towards my V.

So I thought that shot were either silenced or suppressed and cyberpsycho didn't knew location of my V even after being shot, but then I'm wondering if that was just confirmation bias based on how I expected things to go and how I interpret what I saw.

What comes to usage scenarios for weapon classes, for me it depends how much Reflexes my character has. Handguns for low to medium Reflexes build are in many scenarios, especially with good sight very good alternative for assault weapons for stealth build at short distances as bullet spread isn't much of an issue, when that can be a problem with assault weapons when not fired from cover.

SMG's were very good when I messed up something with stealth and enemies started rushing. I think there's a difference here between PC and console players (gamepad) but for my experience they worked for me way better than pistols on medium to close distance than pistols in that sort of scenario.

Assault rifles then are multitool, but best at medium+ distance, on gamepad at least. I don't think I ever came to try them with silencer and there's some variety in a way they work that can be useful for characters low Reflexes characters.

My expression regarding sniper rifles was much the same as yours, for what they are really needed for? before I saw a video some player taking advantage of high location and having good view to entire gang operation from there, that was a scenario there. With snipers it's is that it takes some thinking to find good spots to take advantage of them.

But silenced SMG's look to be a bit of something that has no practical game play purpose.

I often used Fenrir or Problem Solver, and it's like all the weapons with "law damage per shot" (Lexington - handgun, copperhead - assult rifles), you have to kill in one shot or at least very quickly :)
Only time I recall being able to eliminate target with two headshots in a quick succession was with game version that was between day one to 1.06. I tried to pull that off in 1.24 and 1.30 runs, but couldn't.

Good to know. I left Iconic weapons out as I never have collected them all and never will and generally didn't used any of them that much.

Sorry, nope :(

The only thing that I suppose, either it's a bug, either it's because Grads are very (too) powerful and pierce even the walls (as tech weapons).
If it's penetration that would make sense but is there a method to test that for sure?
 
If it's penetration that would make sense but is there a method to test that for sure?
It's funny you ask, because I really try Overwatch in my current playthrough and I didn't find any clue (if I have to do something in particular to make it work), but nothing. For me, it seem to be random (so like I said, a bug of something that I don't find^^)
Even with perfect headshots (so insane crit damages and "instant death"), sometimes enemies are alerted, sometimes nothing and sometimes I enter in combat directly...
After a little while I switch to Psalm 11:6 (who work perfectly) :)
 
Well i went
20 crafting, 20 cool & 20 reflex

With Mox i usually one shot everyone with only 8 body

Crash is one hit body or head, over 50k per shot

Psalms is one hit body or head, over 50k per shot

Overrwatch is one hit body or head, 60k-1million depending where i hit

My character is a tank after a few kills my armor is above 13k but i mainly remain in stealth
 
At least half your issue is the misconception of "silenced" weapons. There's no such thing. Suppressors lessen the noise of a firearm, but do not eliminate the sound completely. As for the rest, you basically answered your own question. You missed, and the round hit something. Unless they're deaf as a post, anyone nearby would go "What the fuck was that?" and look into it. Also, a lot of areas are fairly acoustic (inside buildings, etc) so while muffled to an extent, there'd still be some echo from the shot.
 
At least half your issue is the misconception of "silenced" weapons. There's no such thing. Suppressors lessen the noise of a firearm, but do not eliminate the sound completely. As for the rest, you basically answered your own question. You missed, and the round hit something. Unless they're deaf as a post, anyone nearby would go "What the fuck was that?" and look into it. Also, a lot of areas are fairly acoustic (inside buildings, etc) so while muffled to an extent, there'd still be some echo from the shot.
That has been a theory about how game works, but I haven't found actual evidence that support that. This is just more theory without actual data nor test method to gather data.
 
That has been a theory about how game works, but I haven't found actual evidence that support that. This is just more theory without actual data nor test method to gather data.
You misunderstand my post. What you say "silenced" weapons should do, doesn't happen. Ever. There is no such thing as a "silenced" weapon that makes no sound. They're suppressors, as i said.
 
You misunderstand my post. What you say "silenced" weapons should do, doesn't happen. Ever. There is no such thing as a "silenced" weapon that makes no sound. They're suppressors, as i said.
I wrote about difference between silencer and suppression in IRL terms didn't I?

How things actually work in game, might not be because there's mechanics for that, but because we rationalize scenarios based on assumption. That's I mentioned confirmation bias.

But let's take scenario from game for example: V is clearing out some Valentino's. There are two Valentino's their backs turned towards V who approaches them from behind. Both Valentino's are from same distance from V. Now V shoots other of them with silenced handgun. One standing next to headshotted Valentino doesn't notice, unless that NPC sees the body.

Conclusions:
  • In in-game system silencers are truly silent and NPC's getting alerted are triggered by other factor.
  • Hitting soft target (such as NPC) doesn't generate noise that alert NPC's.
 
I wrote about difference between silencer and suppression in IRL terms didn't I?

How things actually work in game, might not be because there's mechanics for that, but because we rationalize scenarios based on assumption. That's I mentioned confirmation bias.

But let's take scenario from game for example: V is clearing out some Valentino's. There are two Valentino's their backs turned towards V who approaches them from behind. Both Valentino's are from same distance from V. Now V shoots other of them with silenced handgun. One standing next to headshotted Valentino doesn't notice, unless that NPC sees the body.

Conclusions:
  • In in-game system silencers are truly silent and NPC's getting alerted are triggered by other factor.
  • Hitting soft target (such as NPC) doesn't generate noise that alert NPC's.
If you did, i missed it, for which i apologize. As for your example scenario, the other ganger would have to be on some pretty heavy drugs and/or alcohol to not notice his buddy dropping like a stone right beside him. I think they did their best to blend the reality of a suppressor, and the fantasy desire of a silencer. Overall i like the weapons, though i don't quite understand knives and such when you have options like mantis blades. While i'm not saying choice is a bad thing, even just the basic gorilla arms would likely do more damage than any hand held weapons. My only major gripe is being unable to pick up knives you throw.
 
Well i went
20 crafting, 20 cool & 20 reflex

With Mox i usually one shot everyone with only 8 body

Crash is one hit body or head, over 50k per shot

Psalms is one hit body or head, over 50k per shot

Overrwatch is one hit body or head, 60k-1million depending where i hit

My character is a tank after a few kills my armor is above 13k but i mainly remain in stealth
I can see that working for sure, but in general terms, most of time playing is getting to end game.

And that's why I think weapon classes and their role, say SMG is viable whole playthrough, yes, but then silenced SMG's, well... if and when player gets that special weapon and that's I don't feel is very intuitive.
 
I wish the game had shields that could be used by the player. But then, for 40 some years almost no game companies do shields right.
 
How do players feel about combat and weapon / weapon classes (pistols, shotguns, submachine guns, rifles, etc.)?

There's some conflicting information about how combat works and I wonder how much confirmation bias has to do with that. Further I have been thinking about conversation in other topic which prompted more questions. For me weapon classes work and I have been able to find a right weapons to do my playing style and also mixing things up a bit. I'm not interested about having entirely new features such as different ammo types but wonder what could be done with what there's in game now.

This is not a suggestion but I hope players would share their thoughts in context of what is above.


Silenced weapons / stealth.

While silenced handguns work very well in single headshot elimination, there are factors that could be perhaps improved.

Noise

Silenced handguns:

Weapon noise: Missing a shot from relative far distance should not alert enemies, unless...
Bullet: missed bullet going near enemy NPC causing pressure wave that can be felt, bullet hits hard surface or other objects causing noise that can be heard by enemy NPC's. For example, even if bullet hits a wall far from intended target, there might be other enemy NPC's near that wall alerted by noise.


Silenced submachine guns:

Thinking two power SMG's, Darra Polytechnics DS1 Pulsar and Militech M221 Saratoga, with fire rate of 8.89 for Pulsar and 6.90 rounds for M221, even with M221 that would leave 0.14 seconds for reacting to first bullet and 0.28 secs when second one hits and 0.42 secs for third.

I tried looking up information regarding detection time and found out only that detection time gets shorter by difficulty level, not exact time in seconds. That leaves rest of this a bit difficult to debate but: If silenced SMG should be powerful enough to eliminate enemy with two headshots (0.28 secs window) or even with 3 shots in case of M221 without alerting rest of enemies and with related damage perks, also regarding taking advantage of cover and Skull Skipper (Each headshot reduces recoil with Rifles and Submachine Guns by 5% for 10 sec. Stacks up to 5 times).

Silenced submachine guns would be intuitive choice for ranges between a pistol and assault rifle as typically lower caliber is associated with bullets not penetrating enemy target completely (and causing noise, hitting another NPC).


Silenced assault rifles:

AFAIK there's only one silenced weapon that can headshot high level enemy NPC's from far distance and that's Ajax assault rifle obtainable only by crafting.

There's couple of things with that making that bit unintuitive choice. First, assault rifles and high caliber sniper rifles tend to be suppressed rather than silenced. I don't know if there's international consensus about terms but suppressing sound doesn't usually mean silenced, but that it makes it difficult to locate where sound of shot came from.

Second, while it makes sense such technology to exists in CP 2077 universe, silencer with assault rifle is doing quite a few things, also reducing velocity of bullet to level where it doesn't break the sound barrier

Third, I don't know if silenced assault rifle shots do penetrate enemy NPC or not. With assault rifles and sniper rifles, intuitive way to think of them is that bullet is likely to penetrate target completely. What that means for stealth, is that while enemy is single shotted, bullet might still hit solid object causing noise or other NPC.


Silenced sniper rifle, custom (Overwatch):

There's only one silenced sniper rifle in game. Overwatch has built in silencer but silencer doesn't appear to be working, at least all the time. I have read conflicting reports from here and LowSodiumCyberpunk regarding that.

With Overwatch similar questions regarding silencing it apply as with silenced assault rifles, but description says silenced so there it is. However feature isn't working which leads to other thoughts:
  • Description meant to say suppressed instead of silenced, but that wouldn't achieve anything as AFAIK there's no known difference at the moment at least, between silencing and suppressing that would make practical difference to NPC reactions.
  • Is Overwatch working as intended regardless of what description says?

SMG:s still have utility especially for low Body characters as they are lighter than assault rifles. SMG's can be great backup but I'm uncertain, if there's gameplay scenario where silencer with them has practical value in gameplay terms.

I might be wrong with details here, so I would like to know what people think and if there's something that could be made to feature suggestion.
The variety of weapons, mods, cyber tech, etc is overwhelming. As a new player, I find myself second guessing what I "should" use, rather than what is most fun to use. It's interesting to read posts about "lack of variety" - I've had the exact opposite experience.
 
Personally I feel the entire firearms setup is flawed from the start. All weapons should have had a base damage value that never changes throughout the game. Various add-ons to increase damage but limited. A run of the mill 9mm is never going to have the stopping power of a 50cal nitro express. There should of been a vastly larger selection of bullet types, from your basic lead slug to programmable uranium tipped heat seeking hollow point that only fit specific weapons, not every pistol using the same ammunition and magically becoming guided just because the weapon is.

Just because my character is level 50 shouldn't make a crappy bullet hit any harder than when they were level 1.
 
Personally I feel the entire firearms setup is flawed from the start. All weapons should have had a base damage value that never changes throughout the game. Various add-ons to increase damage but limited. A run of the mill 9mm is never going to have the stopping power of a 50cal nitro express. There should of been a vastly larger selection of bullet types, from your basic lead slug to programmable uranium tipped heat seeking hollow point that only fit specific weapons, not every pistol using the same ammunition and magically becoming guided just because the weapon is.

Just because my character is level 50 shouldn't make a crappy bullet hit any harder than when they were level 1.
Most games, depending on gameplay style, don't work like that. Besides, most people don't know the difference between a round nose and a hollowpoint. Shadowrun back on the genesis had universal clips, for chrissakes. Did it make sense that you can load a shotgun with the same clip as a pistol? No, but the gunplay wasn't that deep of a system. It's not that involved in Cyberpunk either. This game isn't about guns, they're just the tools we can use.
 
A: Who carries a shield?
B: This isn't Halo


A: The police
B: Trauma team.

Per the Protect and Serve supplement for the table top game they list a police riot shield :

POLICE ISSUE RIOT SHIELD 150eb (180eb w/optlon) Designed with the defense of riot police in mind, the Riot shield is a full-length plastic barrier (SP=15), intended to protect the officer from attack. The center of the shield has a built-in Militech Taser for contact subdual. The most interesting feature of the shield is the optional strobelight built into the face some six inches from the top. When activated, those directly in front of the light must make a REF save to shield their eyes; failure means aBOD save or become stunned for 1d6 combatturns, incapable of any but the most basic actions. The shield's battery has enough power for 10 pulses.


See below (Polygons article on cyberpunk 2077):



1642461818589.png
 

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