EA has really shot themselves in the foot with this SimCity fiasco. They won't lose any money on it this time out, but the mounting DRM issues are going to start impacting sales in the near future. The next-gen console cycle is going to bring it to a head, I think. Thank God for people like CDPR fighting the good fight.
And lest we forget, seemingly respectable game developers aren't beyond nefarious practices themselves...
Backdoor in Quake
I was around at the time, I remember the scandal, and to this day I disconnect from the internet if it is not required for some gameplay reason.
(I am not of course implying CDPR would stoop so low, no way... but EA? Thats another matter. If always on became a standard, blackhat hackers would begin to target its games for weaknesses... it's a consequence of the continual cyber arms race)
Backdoor in Quake
I was around at the time, I remember the scandal, and to this day I disconnect from the internet if it is not required for some gameplay reason.
(I am not of course implying CDPR would stoop so low, no way... but EA? Thats another matter. If always on became a standard, blackhat hackers would begin to target its games for weaknesses... it's a consequence of the continual cyber arms race)
You don't need to go back that far. Remember Uplay, just last year?
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-uplay-has-serious-security-vulnerability
hah I had forgotten about that, or perhaps took little notice of it... I stopped buying Ubisoft games some time ago, due to their DRM attitude... I forget the exact details. Farcry was the last game I really enjoyed, Assassins Creeds gameplay bored me fairly quickly & as someone who's fascinated by that whole era of Templars & Hashashim, I felt the story weak also. Last of their games I bought.
> How would you feel about Cyberpunk 2077 always online ?
On one hand: if it's much of a practical problem it's not really a problem. Unfortunately always-online rarely seems to work well. Even Blizzard, which is pretty huge, took weeks to get Diablo III working properly.
On the other hand: If I purchase something I own it. If my usage of a product depends on constantly getting someone elses permission, I don't really control the product and I don't really own it in a meaningful way. Seems like a subscription with a one time fee. Not a fan.
> or discs being watermarked so that it only works on that system?
Deal breaker. I like to tinker with my computer. I sort of tolerate windows and photoshop breaking when I change something on my computer, but only barely and I *need* those.
> i think piracy is a big problem especially when it comes to PC gaming and eastern europe/asia..
Agreed, but always on will get cracked too...
I think steam, spotify and netflix demonstrate that much piracy is more about availability than money. Even cheap apps get pirated, but people are prepared to pay if it's *simple*. Jumping though hoops to get an app running is not simple.
On one hand: if it's much of a practical problem it's not really a problem. Unfortunately always-online rarely seems to work well. Even Blizzard, which is pretty huge, took weeks to get Diablo III working properly.
On the other hand: If I purchase something I own it. If my usage of a product depends on constantly getting someone elses permission, I don't really control the product and I don't really own it in a meaningful way. Seems like a subscription with a one time fee. Not a fan.
> or discs being watermarked so that it only works on that system?
Deal breaker. I like to tinker with my computer. I sort of tolerate windows and photoshop breaking when I change something on my computer, but only barely and I *need* those.
> i think piracy is a big problem especially when it comes to PC gaming and eastern europe/asia..
Agreed, but always on will get cracked too...
I think steam, spotify and netflix demonstrate that much piracy is more about availability than money. Even cheap apps get pirated, but people are prepared to pay if it's *simple*. Jumping though hoops to get an app running is not simple.
Wrong
If that is OK for music, why should it be wrong for games ?
BTW, DRM are annoying only for LEGIT customers. They are challenges for hackers, and they have all been accepted and defeated. You buy the game, you get pissed off. You download the game and everything goes well. Something is wrong somewhere...
Not specifically DRM related, but to do with game delivery systems acces to your computer, so related.
EA - Origin User at Risk of Hack Attack.
I remember cyber warfare researchers discussing this potential vulnerability when steam was launched.
EA - Origin User at Risk of Hack Attack.
I remember cyber warfare researchers discussing this potential vulnerability when steam was launched.
It's all about control of the customer.
And there is no such a thing as flawless software...
cracking always online games is feasible too, you just need to immitate a server and reroute application traffic in the right direction. that's one of the easier methods, if no better crack is found. it's been and being done all the time.
IMO all DRM does is delay the pirate release by a week or something, depending on how novel the system is. In the end, it doesn't even matter if you slap DRM on it or not. If you need to pay licensing, you might even be better off without.
The best anti-piracy bet is to create a game that is worth buying, because it's just so goddamned good.
I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 and especially 3 - all that fun I had looking for suitable crack for my legally bought copies so I could play them. Yeah, that's extra fun included... Wait! It wasn't fun at all! Screw DRM, especially always online.
Bad Idea, particularly if the DRM goes wrong, I've seen too many issues with online DRM to back the idea
Well, this is true.
However, you have to remember that a large portion of the people who use "warez" do so because they have no money to buy products. Students and the unemployed, barely making the rent every month, spending most of their money to self-medicate with alcohol because their lives suck, and trying to find some form of escape from reality through warez media, be it TV, movies, music or games. I've been in a situation where I could relate to that.
Sure, if the game is good enough, even the aforementioned may want to actually own it as a hard copy. Still, making a good game won't suddenly generate enough wealth for the poor to buy the game, and they will still get the game via warez if they can. Yeah, games only cost something like 60€, and you only spend it once, but when you're in a situation where you've got like 100€ to spend, even the best game will be a bit expensive at those prices. Then we're back at the same old "well if you can't afford it, you don't have a right to have it" rhetoric, which is irrelevant, since words alone won't stop warez.
Also, it's not piracy. It's warez, filesharing.
Piracy is when you take a product, copy the product, and sell the copy for your own profit. Piracy is what existed long before the internet. You went to Russia, or some Asian country (for example), and bought pirate copies of products. That's piracy. Piracy generates a profit for the pirate.
Filesharing in it's true form generates no profit for the person partaking in it beyond the value of the product, and the loss of profit to the companies can't be proven in any scientific manner.
Although, there was this one lawsuit in the US where the corporations were seeking damages exceeding the wealth of the entire Earth several times over. See, they use dumb maths; file uploads/downloads * product value = loss of profit. It doesn't get dumber than that.
WoW can't be warezed in any smart manner, nor can Diablo 3. I've spent well over 1500€ on WoW. Sure, it's an MMO, but surely even a single player game can utilize some of the things Blizzard has used. Always online would be a start. People will bitch, but that'll cut down filesharing. The WoW client is freely downloadable, shareable and installable. As is Diablo 3 as far as I know. It is the Battle.net account you pay for, and need to access. Thus, it doesn't help if you fileshare the client. You'd need to emulate a server, and all private WoW servers I've ever heard of have as far as I know been complete and utter crap. Not to mention it's a completely different thing to warez and install a game image via Daemon Tools than it is to go get an emulated server software and run that.
So yeah... If you want to cut down on warez, make the game always online. That's just a working solution.
WoW is emulated.
You can play WoW without paying Blizzard's rent on unofficial servers.
You can play WoW without paying Blizzard's rent on unofficial servers.
Hey, Sard, you trying to start a riot?
Naw, they'd lose a LOT of their customer base, even more of their street cred, and, most importantly of all, your favourite moderator if they pulled a trick like that. (That would be me, in case you're not sure). So unless you meant it about giving up your loved ones...?
Yes, but the logic fail that you described earlier in your post then kicks in. It may cut down on warez, but that doesn't necessarily mean more sales, as the logic that says that "piracy=lost sales" is flawed. On the other hand, if the game doesn't NEED to be online, and you lose paying customers because of the always-online requirement, you can definitely say that "DRM=lost sales". So it still doesn't make sense.
Did anyone see this one yesterday? Techdirt picked up on it...
http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/45684087997/apathy-and-refunds-are-more-dangerous-than-piracy
Interesting because it concentrates on the financial accounting aspect of it. And because it's the second developer in the last week to come out and say DRM is bad. (Of course, CDPR have been saying so for a long time).
@OnoSendai7 - Yup, I saw the Durango article yesterday too. I hope for MS's sake that the conclusions drawn are wrong, otherwise I think they've really shot themselves in the foot this time.
Naw, they'd lose a LOT of their customer base, even more of their street cred, and, most importantly of all, your favourite moderator if they pulled a trick like that. (That would be me, in case you're not sure). So unless you meant it about giving up your loved ones...?
Yes, but the logic fail that you described earlier in your post then kicks in. It may cut down on warez, but that doesn't necessarily mean more sales, as the logic that says that "piracy=lost sales" is flawed. On the other hand, if the game doesn't NEED to be online, and you lose paying customers because of the always-online requirement, you can definitely say that "DRM=lost sales". So it still doesn't make sense.
Did anyone see this one yesterday? Techdirt picked up on it...
http://tommyrefenes.tumblr.com/post/45684087997/apathy-and-refunds-are-more-dangerous-than-piracy
Interesting because it concentrates on the financial accounting aspect of it. And because it's the second developer in the last week to come out and say DRM is bad. (Of course, CDPR have been saying so for a long time).
@OnoSendai7 - Yup, I saw the Durango article yesterday too. I hope for MS's sake that the conclusions drawn are wrong, otherwise I think they've really shot themselves in the foot this time.
A RIOT! CAKE!
I'd also give up my favourite moderator to play CP2020, yes. Everyone in this forum, bar none, would go down the toilet if it would allow me to play. Rent-boy, remember? Integrity, FAREWELL.
Online only doesn't stop or probably even dramatically slow piracy. BACK IN THE DAY when I did such immature things, I assure you, tehre was nothing that wasn't available. Typically immediately and if not, soon after. That does include WoW.
DRM is bad, dumb and stupid. I salute who ever came up with it and sold some moron in a suit the idea - very Corporate. "It doesn't work but you should pay us millions for it anyway!"
I only wish I was that good a businessman. Maybe this cursed soul I keep tripping over...
I'd also give up my favourite moderator to play CP2020, yes. Everyone in this forum, bar none, would go down the toilet if it would allow me to play. Rent-boy, remember? Integrity, FAREWELL.
Online only doesn't stop or probably even dramatically slow piracy. BACK IN THE DAY when I did such immature things, I assure you, tehre was nothing that wasn't available. Typically immediately and if not, soon after. That does include WoW.
DRM is bad, dumb and stupid. I salute who ever came up with it and sold some moron in a suit the idea - very Corporate. "It doesn't work but you should pay us millions for it anyway!"
I only wish I was that good a businessman. Maybe this cursed soul I keep tripping over...