Is Gwent a pay to win game?

[StrykerxS77x]

That's your definition of P2W, mine is any game that offers anything but cosmetic items for money. Doesn't matter how much things cost, you can buy cards so it's PTW. You don't have to buy cards but people who do have more resources and more options to adapt to the current meta.

While that is technically true it doesn't last long. It's inconsequential. Only for new players would that be any kind of advantage because you have more cards than other new players. Once everyone has what they need to play their decks then buying kegs does nothing to give someone an advantage.

Gwent is not P2W by any margin that actually matters in the long run.

 

[Void_Singer]

That's your definition of P2W[...]

not mine. the original. the watered down version that ignroes being able to earn the same things through play is too vague and would define any game you purchase as "P2W" making the definition meaningless.

 

[Nurro]

Absolutely not

 

[Hellsmoke77]

not mine. the original. the watered down version that ignroes being able to earn the same things through play is too vague and would define any game you purchase as "P2W" making the definition meaningless.

The English language is quit simple if you take it seriously. Let's look at the meaning of the actual words "pay to win" in relation to Gwent. What items are available in the game that can result in you winning? There is only one type of item and that is cards. Cards can be crafted from scraps which can be obtained by milling cards which you can purchase from kegs.

Conclusion: You can buy the whole collection for money and the game can therefore be labeled "pay to win". Pay to win does not mean that paying is the only way to win, it means that the option is available ruducing the time you need and the grind required to obtain the items required to win.

Without using common sense a quick google search will show you that most people consider P2W being the sale of any item which is non cosmetic. I'm having trouble finding a single source which describes the term "P2W" as you do, citation please.

It is also okay to simply say that your description of P2W is your own opinion.

Edit: Here are some of the most common definitions of P2W.
https://allods.my.com/forum/index.ph...d&postID=72663


This definition describes your view as well as mine. I believe the propper way to resole this discussion is to say that the term is subjective and with that I stand by my previous comment that your definition is your opinion. We'll have to agree to disagree.

"Here is the run down, pay to win refers to a model of game wherein a player may circumvent hours or days of farming or grinding in order to get something earlier than they would have done without grinding. It also refers to getting something of a higher quality or ability than they would have been able to without paying."​

 

[4RM3D]

Void_Singer Hellsmoke77

Why does it have to be a binary choice where a game is either P2W or isn't? That in itself already limits the discussion and turns it more into semantics. Instead of judging Gwent on its own, compare it with other games of the same genre.

I am not going to repeat myself here. Instead, I'll just leave a link to my explanation.

 

[Hellsmoke77]

Void_Singer Hellsmoke77

Why does it have to be a binary choice where a game is either P2W or isn't? That in itself already limits the discussion and turns it more into semantics. Instead of judging Gwent on its own, compare it with other games of the same genre.

I am not going to repeat myself here. Instead, I'll just leave a link to my explanation.

Gwent is not only a CCG but FTP as well. Most FTP game are considered P2W, that's how they earn money. Fact is there are differen't opinions as to what P2W is with a heavy majority pointing to "any game that sells non cosmetic items".

If Gwent sold only MP I'd say no, it isn't P2W. Since a new player can join today, pull out his credit card and spend hundreds to obtain the whole collection I have to say yes, Gwent is a form of P2W.

4RM3D
Your blanket statement has kinda expired. Even if you mill all factions and create a t1 deck (dwarfs) your deck will no longer be t1 in the next season. A complete collection is the win condition of Gwent, the ability to adapt to the meta is what keeps you winning. While it is true that you can take that route for a decent start a player that drops a load of cash has a much larger advantage. Or you can use your outdated t1 deck and struggle your way to another deck. That is playing to win, dropping cash to circumvent that is P2W.

 

[CallMeHoot]

It's "Pay 2 Win" in the same way every other CCG ever made is "Pay 2 Win".

If you drop down a decent chunk of initial cash then you will have a better collection of cards sooner than if you didn't. If you don't spend the cash you will have to grind out the games to accrue the rewards over time to get the same collection of cards.

The end result, i.e. having a deck that you can take to a high spot on the ladder, is the same. The only difference between buying packs for cash and not buying packs for cash is the time it will take you. Of course there is an argument to be made that by grinding you will have a better understanding of the game and how to pilot / counter any given deck than someone who just drops the monies down and plays a netdeck they have no idea how to pilot.

TL;DR

How much time do you wanna spend building a collection?

 

[StrykerxS77x]

The only thing that matters to me is that someone who spends money has zero advantage over me, which is true. As long as that is true then it's not pay to win in my eyes.

 

[Hellsmoke77]

The only thing that matters to me is that someone who spends money has zero advantage over me, which is true. As long as that is true then it's not pay to win in my eyes.

Once you have a decent collection they don't have an advantage over you but it takes months of dedication to obtain that position. Other players simply pull their credit card and get instant access to what took you months to grind out. Looking at it that way everyone who pays has an advantage over you. You will win due to experience but that player doesn't have to do the grind.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Once you have a decent collection they don't have an advantage over you but it takes months of dedication to obtain that position. Other players simply pull their credit card and get instant access to what took you months to grind out. Looking at it that way everyone who pays has an advantage over you. You will win due to experience but that player doesn't have to do the grind.

Them skipping the grind doesn't give them an advantage over me. I still have just as much ability to win the game as they do. Personally I don't mind if they skipped the grind. They are still going to have to put in the work to learn the game which is going to take time.

 

[Hellsmoke77]

Them skipping the grind doesn't give them an advantage over me. I still have just as much ability to win the game as they do. Personally I don't mind if they skipped the grind. They are still going to have to put in the work to learn the game which is going to take time.

They have an advantage over other new players who don't pay. The advantage fades with time granted, but it is there.

 

[4RM3D]

Even if you mill all factions and create a t1 deck (dwarfs) your deck will no longer be t1 in the next season.

You've forgotten one thing, once you have a tier 1 deck, you can easily grind kegs. After a month, you'll have more than enough to adjust your deck. Also, not every season will have significant changes. Besides, because Gwent is limited in how many epic and legendary cards you can have in your deck (unlike some games), a deck always costs the same (unless you go for +25 cards). This makes it doable for F2P players to keep up, if they play daily to complete one tier and the quest. Of course, P2W players still have it easier because they don't have to play as often and can more easily create multiple decks. In the end, once you have a tier 1 deck, the only factor that remains is skill (and luck, kinda).

 

[StrykerxS77x]

They have an advantage over other new players who don't pay. The advantage fades with time granted, but it is there.

I acknowledged that already. I was referring to myself in which they have zero advantage.

 

[TheEpicWhale]

What is exactly being proven with this post?
Even if we take the most glum look at the definition of P2W it is apparently a slight advantage.
What is exactly being won here?

 

[partci]

Yes, Gwent is pLay to win game.

 

[Void_Singer]

The English language is quit simple if you take it seriously.[...]

english is a heavily nuanced, contextual, and idiomatic language. broad generalizations often apply to specific meanings when used in specifc phrasing (which can vary heavily by region)... and vice versa.

It is also okay to simply say that your description of P2W is your own

and if it was I would have said that

This definition describes your view as well as mine.

no, it doesn't. there is no "also" in the definition I laid out. You don't agree with it? Doesn't matter. It was provided to make my reasoning clear, not to make anyone happy with it.

Void_Singer Hellsmoke77
Why does it have to be a binary choice where a game is either P2W or isn't?

It has nothing to do with a binary choice for me... it's about being clear about which aspects I'm addressing and what criteria I'm using... nothing more or less. Hells disagreed with the definition I used, I explained why I used it. I consider the exchange done.

 

[Theodrik]

I think this matter is totally relative to the player analysing it. For lazy ones who don't wanna spend a considerable amount of time playing the game to acquire a vast collection, it might be considerer a P2W game. However, I don't consider it to be the case myself. I challenge any new player who wanna spend loads of cash on the game to play against me, and I'll go with a new account. Without spending a penny on it, I assure you that I'll have 70~80% win rate against this new player for the next 2 months to come. And after 2 months playing with this new account, I also assure you that I'll have enough resources to craft whatever deck I want to. So yea, the new player will have a bunch of cards to his disposal, but does that mean he will win? Nah.

 

[NomanPeopled]

I've not yet encountered a f2p game that was less p2w. Not an expert on f2p titles though.

Yeah, you can start winning earlier if you put money into it. I guess this would have the largest implications for people who play little. So yeah, there is absolutely an advantage.
I have little love for the f2p business model but I have to say that I'm wondering how CDPR is even making money off of Gwent. I had several competitive decks within a few months (before dishing out some money), and enough bits, pieces, and scraps at any given point to build another.
Granted, I may have played a lot, but that was also before the dailies and Arena.

Unless CDPR starts releasing more cards I fully expect to keep pace without extra effort. Quite possibly crafting only premium cards from now on.

 

[Hellsmoke77]

english is a heavily nuanced, contextual, and idiomatic language. broad generalizations often apply to specific meanings when used in specifc phrasing (which can vary heavily by region)... and vice versa.


and if it was I would have said that


no, it doesn't. there is no "also" in the definition I laid out. You don't agree with it? Doesn't matter. It was provided to make my reasoning clear, not to make anyone happy with it.


It has nothing to do with a binary choice for me... it's about being clear about which aspects I'm addressing and what criteria I'm using... nothing more or less. Hells disagreed with the definition I used, I explained why I used it. I consider the exchange done.

Right so it's your way or no way as usual even though most people see it differently. There is no set definition of pay to win, you can take those three words for what they actually mean or twist them to support your argument. The general consensus is any game that sells non cosmetic items is P2W, period. You can confirm this by doing a bit of research online. FTP games always containP2W elements and that is exactly what this is, a free to play game and it sells non cosmetic items.

The exchange is indeed done and I still see your statement as your own opinion, nothing more.

 

[Hellsmoke77]

You've forgotten one thing, once you have a tier 1 deck, you can easily grind kegs. After a month, you'll have more than enough to adjust your deck. Also, not every season will have significant changes. Besides, because Gwent is limited in how many epic and legendary cards you can have in your deck (unlike some games), a deck always costs the same (unless you go for +25 cards). This makes it doable for F2P players to keep up, if they play daily to complete one tier and the quest. Of course, P2W players still have it easier because they don't have to play as often and can more easily create multiple decks. In the end, once you have a tier 1 deck, the only factor that remains is skill (and luck, kinda).

True enough, I never said Gwent was so hardcore P2W that people just go under. There are different levels of P2W and Gwent is definitely playable without, many games are. All I'm saying is it does contain P2W elements because it sells cards and offers a shortcut.