Is the Watson section really the game we wanted?

[CTPhipps]

I was just thinking that the Watson section with Jackie, T-Bug, Evelyn, Judy, and Dex really is substantially better than the rest of the game. Which is a shame because I really did love Johnny Silverhand and Keanu's portrayal. However, everything just makes more SENSE in the part of the game leading up to the Heist than the next two thirds of the game.

Everything is kind of downhill afterward because of video game logic making plot holes:

* You doing jobs for your Fixer makes sense because you are still poor and trying to make money.
* You are trying to make a name for yourself and are still 2nd rate goons so you involved in all these crazy sidequests.
* You have to do a lot of detective work with the braindances to plan the Heist.
* You are not a big time player so people like Dex and Evelyn manipulating you have an air of mystery to them.
* You have close relationships with the NPCs like Victor, Misty, and so on.
* Arasaka and Militech seem like big badasses that you are to do your best to not piss off.

Really, everything feels more vibrant and alive when the game is making you less of a big player and more like someone making a name for themselves. The game world actually feels smaller once you leave Watson because you become aquainted with all of the Fixers and they're kind of just variants on the same people. There's also major plot holes like:

* Why no one tries to turn over the guy who murdered the Emperor after Dex.
* Why everyone keeps trying to hire them.
* Why Yorinobu never puts a bounty on your head.
* While you're living in your own goddamn apartment still.
* Why you keep doing all the same things you were doing before you were dying.

I feel like I'm now in the camp that thinks the Heist should have been the game and everything after it should have been a sequel or DLC.

 

[Notserious80]

I have always found it strange that they put a ticking clock main quest and then give us so much "side quests" or optional quests. Kinda seem counterproductive too me. I also found it weird that there was no more assassins coming for you after the car chase, if you hand Jackie too Victor its even weirder that nobody came looking since they should have all the info they wanted on V.

 

[Malautomedontolo]

I have always found it strange that they put a ticking clock main quest and then give us so much "side quests" or optional quests. Kinda seem counterproductive too me. I also found it weird that there was no more assassins coming for you after the car chase, if you hand Jackie too Victor its even weirder that nobody came looking since they should have all the info they wanted on V.

It's a videogame. Same applies to TW3 for instance. Geralt has to look for Ciri before she gets into more troubles, but still gets involved in tons of side content which has nothing to do with her... It's not real life, we also need to suspend our disbelief a bit.

In any case, I also think Kabuki is one of the best areas in the game, one of those that got fully shaped and is the closest you can get to what the developers have in mind...

 

[Notserious80]

Yes same applies too witcher 3, but your not dying in a couple of weeks. My first playtrough was really rushed and kinda ruined the game for me since i was trying too save V. If id only knew... I generaly stay aslong as i can in act 1 now since there's no annoying glitches and blood coughing there so im almost allways overleveled before i start act 2 instead now

 

[Guest 3847602]

I liked the Act 1 well enough, but, in my eyes, it's not even close to being something with potential to serve as the basis for the entire main story. Same with Jackie - I love the guy, but I'd probably get sick of him after 20 hours.
Even on my first playthrough it was obvious to me that the heist is just a setup for the real story. The one that I ended up liking a lot.
So, no, it's not something I wanted or something I would have particularly enjoyed. Too many "rags to riches"/"criminal climbing the ranks" cliches for my taste.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

This is just my opinion, but I don't think so for few reasons :
There are more, but here are a few
- I don't have Bike.
- I don't have access to other parts of Night City (shops,ripperdocks,...).
- I prefer the quests after "The Heist" (and by far).
For those reasons, I "rush" "The Heist" as fast as possible.

I have always found it strange that they put a ticking clock main quest and then give us so much "side quests" or optional quests. Kinda seem counterproductive too me. I also found it weird that there was no more assassins coming for you after the car chase, if you hand Jackie too Victor its even weirder that nobody came looking since they should have all the info they wanted on V.

For me, in all games, there is always some kind of emergency (not as "in a hurry" maybe) for push players to follow the main quest (save the world/characters, kill a bad guy,...)
But that there is no "retaliation" from Arasaka seemed also strange to me (kind of Assassins who could appear randomly).

 

[Notserious80]

For me, in all games, there is always some kind of emergency (not as "in a hurry" maybe) for push players to follow the main quest (save the world/characters, kill a bad guy,...)
But that there is no "retaliation" from Arasaka seemed also strange to me (kind of Assassins who could appear randomly).

Yea i can think of about 5-6 Rpg open world games that has a main story like that, but i found it harder too ignore in this game. Especially since its rarely the player character thats dying in the story. And i gotta hand it too them, i really really liked my V and dident want her too die so. Unlike for example FO4 where i grew corn for years before i even started looking seriously for my son There were not the same emotional attatchment. They could alteast have been more vague with the timespan. But its really my fault for not just ignoring it the first time around.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Unlike for example FO4 where i grew corn for years before i even started looking seriously for my son

You did it, but with reflexion, that's pretty bad... Your unic son have disappeared (kidnapped by the guy who have murdered your wife/husband) and you, you farm corn instead to search him...
(but we have already debate on this point in another thread, I think).

 

[AikoHayashi]

For Yorunobu the big danger was Takemura, not a merc who is not even the real killer.

 

[nadsh]

I loved the prologue and Act 1. The premise might have been not all that original, but the execution was great. The main quest is more focused and has more variations, nothing comes close to the Pickup quest in terms of player choice.
I like Johnny but I feel the story shifted away from V a bit too much in the other acts. Little agency, no different outcomes in most quests, main quest to gigs ratio and so on.

 

[Notserious80]

For Yorunobu the big danger was Takemura, not a merc who is not even the real killer.

While i can accept that as part of it, V witnessed the entire thing. Same with Jackie tbh. Must be some kinda way too extract that info thats better then a testomony in Cp2077. Soulkiller comes too mind, if you can store a "soul" why not a memory? Takemura is probably a bigger threat since he knows Arasaka better tho.

 

[AikoHayashi]

While i can accept that as part of it, V witnessed the entire thing. Same with Jackie tbh. Must be some kinda way too extract that info thats better then a testomony in Cp2077. Soulkiller comes too mind, if you can store a "soul" why not a memory? Takemura is probably a bigger threat since he knows Arasaka better tho.

So

Spoiler

at the end it seems that everybody at Arasaka knew/had a suspicion who the real killer is and they just did nothing. Even when Takemura confronts Hanako after the parade she acts like she doesn't know anything. What would the word of a merc mean?

 

[Notserious80]

If its a memory its not really the word of a merc in my eyes. Sure he might not care but if it convinces others i would see that as a big problem that needed fixing. Just find it odd thats all.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

If its a memory its not really the word of a merc in my eyes

A little off topic, but Goro is much more dangerous than V for Yorinobu and Arasaka, I think
Goro spend his life for Saburo and Arasaka vs V, simple merc...
Honestly, who would believe a simple little unknown street merc, with a toasted brain, who "claims" to have the consciousness of Johnny Silverhand (an anarchist and a terrorist) in his head and to be able to see him and discuss with him...
It smells good pyschatric asylum...

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

For me act 1 was fine. However from the moment I accepted "The Heist" quest it was clear that Jackie was fucked (dead) and V was just fucked. That was the only part until then that could push off the actual plot after the heist.
And act 1 in and on itself was good. There only thing I never understood is why we couldn't already have the availability to purchase some cars such as Galena, Quartz, Thornton or Shion, they are all inside Watson area and accessible locations during that act.
Specifically if you choose to spend up and around 50 hours just doing actual merc stuff thats s'posed to put you on the map and gain credit to ultimately enter the Afterlife.

 

[Notserious80]

Yea its kinda odd sometimes, nobody knows V but ppl seem too know V and wanna hire him/her every step of the way. The best quests its probably the "romance" quests for me since they feelt most organic. Panam dont really like V in the start, same with Judy and River. Seems like a pretty capeble and trustworthy merc with a terrorist in theres skull too me

 

[Didacgomez]

Yea its kinda odd sometimes, nobody knows V but ppl seem too know V and wanna hire him/her every step of the way.

Don't know if it may help you with the oddity,but i internally thought as an Uber app for mercenaries...would have been nice to actually install it and the possibility to disable it at will.

 

[tdog986]

I have always found it strange that they put a ticking clock main quest and then give us so much "side quests" or optional quests. Kinda seem counterproductive too me. I also found it weird that there was no more assassins coming for you after the car chase, if you hand Jackie too Victor its even weirder that nobody came looking since they should have all the info they wanted on V.

I think this game's division between main and side gigs is the worst I've played in recent years. If you're going to be make your character have a fatal illness and create a sense of urgency then do it like RDR2 not like this.

For the second point, I think they only get Jackie because they track the Delamain again and it leads to Viktor. A number of explanations could be made up to explain why they didn't care enough to go after the other person involved in the Heist but there are other mysteries. How did Takemura find out about Dex? Why did Arasaka agents want to kill Takemura at the junkyard? Who knows?

 

[Mobster100]

I was just thinking that the Watson section with Jackie, T-Bug, Evelyn, Judy, and Dex really is substantially better than the rest of the game. Which is a shame because I really did love Johnny Silverhand and Keanu's portrayal. However, everything just makes more SENSE in the part of the game leading up to the Heist than the next two thirds of the game.

The beginning of CP as you describe it is very good in my opinion. The rest is good as well, but I really think its masterfully done how they manage in such a short amount of time to make players care about Jackie and would have liked to have had him around as a side kick, also I think he does a lot for making the world seem believable, it's not like he is constantly talking about saving the world or doing some extremely heroic thing, that you would normally be presented with in games, like you having to save the kingdom or kill the ultimate evil etc. But rather he is down to earth, talking about family and stuff like that, which might sound boring, but again, it helps make the world believable and feel alive in my opinion.

In regards to the rest of the story, I think they could have made it equally as good. But there are several things which they did wrong as I see it. The player sort of skyrockets into being the ultimate successful badass, and I think a lot of that is due to the broken economy and you constantly being handed stuff for free. It sort of ruins the whole idea of "making it to the top league", the game is set over a very short amount of days, which one obviously shouldn't get to hooked up in, but it does ruin the idea a bit of how difficult it actually is to make it to the top league, when V in a few days goes from a "shitty" apartment, to owning 3+ luxury cars, motorcycles plus a lot of random cars. Extremely high tech equipment etc. Then you sort of wonder, why they are so eager to make it to the top league, if it's so easy to become a millionaire? I think it would have made more sense to have kept V at the bottom longer. Because after the heist, there is no real reason for why V is suddenly successful, given that the heist goes completely wrong.

Also I don't think they should have killed Jackie, at least not at the point they did. Rather V should have put the chip in their head instead of Jackie and they should have gone into hiding as the whole city would be filled with Arasaka and police looking for them. After a few days in hiding, Jackie could suggest that you try to get some help from his mother and the people in the bar she is running, which he trust. But as you get there, they have been tortured and killed by a team from Arasaka led by Adam Smasher.
Also they find out that, they have been betrayed or sold out, either by Dex or Evelyn, trying to save their own skin, which could come from Takemura, which again knew that something weren't exactly right, and that V and Jackie didn't kill Saburo. But he doesn't know all the details, so it's up to the player to try to figure out who screwed them over. Which again, could depend on the choices that the player made during the preparation of the heist and could turn into one hell of a mess, of who V can trust and who they can't as these two constantly bounce around blaming each other, or give the player a reason to trust them etc. A lot of very cool twists and turns could be added here.

That way, V would get much more invested into the whole situation with Adam Smasher. At some point while V, Takemura and Jackie is trying to find out more. Jackie is on his own looking for information, while V and Takemura is observing or something, but it turns out that it is a trap, which result in Jackie being captured by Adam Smasher and Arasaka. They get into a fight, which Jackie loses completely and Smasher figures out that he doesn't have the chip, but want him to give up V, which he won't which then result in him being tortured and killed as well, while this is happening Takemura keeps V from running in there to help, as it would be suicide. But this is where Jackie dies as V watches and see how bad of a person Smasher is. At this point the player ought to be completely invested in the story, because again, they don't know who they can trust, Dex or Evelyn and which of them lured them into a trap, which got Jackie killed.

Maybe at this point, you have the collapse of V and you are rushed to Viktor and the whole Silverhand plays out. And some minor changes should have been made here, in order to keep the conflict between V and Silverhand.

But anyway, to me, the biggest issue with the story after the heist as it is now, is that V is not involved in the story at all, there is no reason for wanting Smasher dead or bring down Arasaka, the chip is the only thing, which motivate the player, but it gets clear rather early that you can't be saved. But had the story been different there could be a lot of endings, both happy ones and unhappy ones, do you want to save Silverhand as well? Only yourself? Maybe only Silverhand? etc. I think the story if it had involved the player more, could have had lots of very interesting twists, while having made more sense, in why V wants revenge.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I think this game's division between main and side gigs is the worst I've played in recent years. If you're going to be make your character have a fatal illness and create a sense of urgency then do it like RDR2 not like this.

In RDR2, there are no "side" quests... Most quests are "main quest", so I don't know how it could be possible to compare those games....

How did Takemura find out about Dex? Why did Arasaka agents want to kill Takemura at the junkyard? Who knows?

A Fixer's who want leave Night City right after "The Heist", no too difficult for Arasaka to find him, I think.
Yorinobu probably want kill Goro because he know that Goro didn't believe of a poison death... And once Goro finds V, easy to kill two birds with one stone, eliminate both problems at the same time...
And frankly if I put myself in Yorinobu's shoes, it seems like a good idea to get rid of your father's faithful bodyguard that you just murdered