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Melee combat, please have depth and make it just as engaging as the fps gameplay.

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Stiler

NC Citizen
#1
In many rpgs, and especially rpgs that have range weapons, melee combat often feels like an afterthought. The mechanics of melee combat are often quite simple, in Deus Ex: HR for example melee was literally regulated to a "cutscene" that triggered when you would sneak up to someone and perform a "takedown" and that was it. In the original Deus Ex you actually had melee weapons/combat (Baton/sword, etc). In The Elder Scrolls games melee combat is fairly simple, you have no real choice in terms of attacks or moves, it's largely slashing at the enemy until their hp goes to 0, with a block here and there.

As a melee combat fan who loves melee focused action games (Severance, my personal fave, followed by games like Bushido Blade, Jedi Knight, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, Rune, Die by the sword, For Honor, etc) these types of combat systems found in most action rpgs are well, just quite boring. It doens't feel engaging or rewarding in the least.

With FPP things have to be changed even further, because you don't want to disorient the player and you have to keep this in mind when it comes to enemy attacks and the player being able to read/see them, etc. However there are some fpp rpgs that have done melee combat some justice. Mount and Blade is a fan favorite for many action rpg palyers and for me my personal gold standard is the newer game, Kingdom Come: Deliverance. They found a good way to give melee combat depth using directional based attacks/blocks and also to have a combo system which opens up as your level up and buy those skills, which combo's giving you advantages to specific areas and types of attacks.

A video showing the combat mechanics and how it works.

You have 6 basic attacks (5 directional based attacks and a thrust), you have feints, dodging, blocking, ripostes, and then the combo system which is tied into the skill system and leveling up (it's an rpg afterall), all of which are centered around the stamina system (so you can't spam attacks or simply turtle) you have to engage and use your attacks wisely and learn the combo's and how to make use of them against your specific opponent and the armor (or lack of armor). Overall the system is just enjoyable and has depth/complexity to it that is often lacking in fpp melee combat.

I hope that Cyberpunk gives melee combat fans this kind of depth and variety and doesn't feel like it's largely a one-note affair (like Deus Ex) or something you just fall back on when you are out of bullets, rather something that you can actually build your character toward and center your type of combat around.
 
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Chronoid

Tourist
#2
This is all I'm hoping for ever since First person only was announced. Only thing I'm still worried about too.
 

gaktem

Poser
#3
You are going against people using guns. Kingdom Come: Deliverance's system won't work well in this game. Melee most likely will used in a stealth build for stealth take downs. The combat will most likely be like Dishonored games.
 

Loostreaks

Junior Member
#4
It has to Be simple. You're not going to duel your opponent, like two medieval knights, in a room full of people shooting at you.

KCD falls apart when engaging more than one opponent, it is designed for a slow, one on one, "methodical" pace.

It has to be fast, brutal, direct and efficient, with very satisfying visual and audio feedback.

Closest I can think of is either Dishonored ( light) or something like Mordhau ( more complex):

 

Stiler

NC Citizen
#5
You are going against people using guns. Kingdom Come: Deliverance's system won't work well in this game. Melee most likely will used in a stealth build for stealth take downs. The combat will most likely be like Dishonored games.
Not every encounter would be with guns (melee weapons are a part of Cyberpunk 2020, swords, axes, futuristic weapons like monowhips/swords, etc), also some combat encounters would start off within close/melee range as well.

Then there's a matter of implants, which can do things like give you insane reflexes/speed as well as armor, etc so you can close the distance and have protection from bullets.

I really hope melee combat isn't just geared toward forcing you into stealth and we can actively engage with it instead of everyone having to be focused on guns.
 

Sardukhar

Moderator
#7
Yeah, so guns do rule, but.

BUT.

They aren't auto hit. You can get close and disarm or stab a lot. Hello, Krav Maga. It's insane but if you have no choice...

Also, CP2020 has cyberware for armor, pain control, reduced damage to vitals and actual armour clothing. So getting shot is not like it is in our world.

Melee and HtH are important skills to have.

Not to mention, NOT EVERYONE GOES TO LETHAL. I hope the game addresses this, but the immediate urge isn't, "Hey that guy spilled my drink, TIME FOR THE ARMALITE 44 OF EDUCATION." No.

Hands, knives, monswords, buzzhands, etc. All play a big part in Cyberpunk.

A system like KCD would be great, yes.
 

Suhiira

Max-Tac
#9
Melee/unarmed has it's time and place, and is incredibly useful under some circumstances. But to expect to take out a gang armed with SMGs with your monokatana is a tad ridiculous.
 

doolydeath

User
#15
I'd like to think that melee would have the satisfying and fluid feeling of something like Dark Messiah mixed with a larger focus on agile traversal, ideally feeling like you're sliding and jumping around to avoid bullets to get up close and personal. (knowing that we'll be able to unlock double jumping and wall climbing it sounds like the melee combat is going in this direction too)

Being a cyberninja that moves too fast for anyone to react is my fantasy.

The frantic deadliness of how stealthgamerbr plays dishonored comes to mind.
 
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Snowflakez

User
#18
Melee/unarmed has it's time and place, and is incredibly useful under some circumstances. But to expect to take out a gang armed with SMGs with your monokatana is a tad ridiculous.
They've already said melee playthroughs will be viable and supported, so I'm guessing it will be a lot easier than you think.
 

Sardukhar

Moderator
#20
Sard, you can't possibly be serious. Show me what's better?
How is that technique at all? In any way. It's a one-button-press dynamic. The only skill is getting close enough. And there is no RPG aspect either - it's get-item-go-to-town.

It's boring. It looks pretty and that's it. Blah.

Either go the Deus Ex route that does that but at -least- demands you skill/gear for it or even better go for something like Kingdom Come deliverance with different attack angles, timing, moves, etc. You can make it less twitch by easily flipping a switch in gameplay to just auto-hit, AFTER you build the techniques up.

At least that way you'd need to, you know, build for the techniques and skills. Not just run up and push a chainsaw at them. Boring. The sole virtue it has is that it looks..neato?

They've already said melee playthroughs will be viable and supported, so I'm guessing it will be a lot easier than you think.
Probably. It's a terrible sign, though - there really shouldn't be "viable playthroughs" for melee ranged or stealth. Those are all techniques and sometimes in the game, they should get you killed if you try them.

That's the Street.