Monster Faction Power Discussion

[kmepring]

I don't know where people are getting these "tiers" already. There isn't a lower tier deck just lower tier cards at this point and it just happens Monsters are up there. And the reason they're up there is not just easy - it's because they're unique.

I can make a solid deck to deal with any other the other three factions easily, even Northern Realms (I don't get where people think Northern Realms is hard to deal with - it takes a ton of turns to finish a combo. If you can't at least partially stop it then you've got bad luck or a bad deck). But Monsters I needed to make a deck basically completely to deal with those, and even then I have to rely a lot on draw. Because it is very easy for Monster decks to get a ton out on the field while at the same time crippling your side. They're pretty much the only deck that actually uses weather. They can get copies out far faster than any other deck, even NR. And of course that ridiculous Eternal Gold Card issue - there really is not reason is should work on Gold Cards in a deck that can technically have five Gold Cards.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Those who say that they easily defeat monster decks should be aware that majority of players don't play well. My strongest deck is the monster deck. I've NEVER lost to Scoia'tael and Skellige decks. And lost 3 times out of probably 50 to Northern Realms decks, one was a very bad luck where I've got just a single weather card for a whole game (my deck is stuffed with them), one was my brain fart when I accidentally played a wrong card but still only lost by 1 point, and one was a legit loss to the catapult deck but it was stuffed with lots of awesome unique cards. I can also improve my monster deck by adding several awesome cards I'm salivating to have.

I tried to play many decks and in my personal experience, if not stuffed by super-duper unique cards, Monsters > NR > Scoia'tael = Skellige

I played a game against Northern realms today where they continued buffing their cards WHILE in the middle of my weather effect. That is just ridiculous that they can still win or almost win why playing in weather. I feel like NR and monsters as well might need some tweaking because some of this hardly makes sense or is absurdly powerful.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I don't know where people are getting these "tiers" already. There isn't a lower tier deck just lower tier cards at this point and it just happens Monsters are up there. And the reason they're up there is not just easy - it's because they're unique.

I can make a solid deck to deal with any other the other three factions easily, even Northern Realms (I don't get where people think Northern Realms is hard to deal with - it takes a ton of turns to finish a combo. If you can't at least partially stop it then you've got bad luck or a bad deck). But Monsters I needed to make a deck basically completely to deal with those, and even then I have to rely a lot on draw. Because it is very easy for Monster decks to get a ton out on the field while at the same time crippling your side. They're pretty much the only deck that actually uses weather. They can get copies out far faster than any other deck, even NR. And of course that ridiculous Eternal Gold Card issue - there really is not reason is should work on Gold Cards in a deck that can technically have five Gold Cards.

You are referring to NR making a bunch of gold cards and then adrenaline rushing them to the next round? This strategy does seem to be extremely easy to do for really good players on this deck. I've focused on strategies to keep them from doing this today and it's still difficult to do. So far anyway.

Oh they guy I played against I would have beaten in the second round but his last play was a gold card which reduced my entire row to 1. That card is insane. It even took my gold cards to 1. That shouldn't even be possible IMO.

 

[Matthias_Wlkp]

In general, I don't have a problem with Monster deck - just don't let them win easily with one card. As soon as they have those "die when no fog" creatures - you have a decent chance rendering their faction ability a major disadvantage.

 

[kmepring]

You are referring to NR making a bunch of gold cards and then adrenaline rushing them to the next round? This strategy does seem to be extremely easy to do for really good players on this deck. I've focused on strategies to keep them from doing this today and it's still difficult to do. So far anyway.

Oh they guy I played against I would have beaten in the second round but his last play was a gold card which reduced my entire row to 1. That card is insane. It even took my gold cards to 1. That shouldn't even be possible IMO.

There are gold cards which can reduce Gold cards. Iorveth for instance, and I believe Triss also. None that I know of that can drop ALL gold cards to one, though I figured out a combo where I can severely hinder them (use Iorveth and then leader Eithne to do it again can get rid of a Geralt). But if I didn't have that it would be impossible to beat most good Monster decks that have Woodland Spirit. Woodland Spirit by the way is a nonsense card - you get a Gold 7 Strength card which is hard enough to get rid of, free 1 Strengths in your Close Combat, and if you're playing right a bunch of Foglets, plus now all your opponents Ranged is reduced. That is WAY too much power behind a single card, and that is why Monster decks are NOT just "easy beginner decks". I can't think of any Gold Cards that can easily put 16 Strength on your board in a single turn with no combo and no reliance on any other cards.

And there are a ton of Monster cards like this. I know they need to have more than just Breedable but they are way too powerful. There's also that one 5 Strength Silver card that spawns a bunch of 1 Strength that also damages your side. It's just a bunch of double whammies in that deck and whatsmore they're all effortless double whammies. Even if I plan perfectly, Monster decks can play a single card that destroys it all. No strategy involved.

EDIT: I looked through the Gold Cards. What may have been used on you is Yennefer, and she spawned Chironex. But that should effect ALL cards, including your Opponents. That's the only Gold Card that can remove strength from multiple Gold units at once.

 

[Maerd]

I played a game against Northern realms today where they continued buffing their cards WHILE in the middle of my weather effect. That is just ridiculous that they can still win or almost win why playing in weather. I feel like NR and monsters as well might need some tweaking because some of this hardly makes sense or is absurdly powerful.

To make sure they don't buff inside the weather you have to use weather smart. First you wait for them to buff their units, then make them pay with a weather effect. Don't play weather right away unless you need to summon/regenerate foglets.

 

[Rizbo]

There are gold cards which can reduce Gold cards. Iorveth for instance, and I believe Triss also. None that I know of that can drop ALL gold cards to one, though I figured out a combo where I can severely hinder them (use Iorveth and then leader Eithne to do it again can get rid of a Geralt). But if I didn't have that it would be impossible to beat most good Monster decks that have Woodland Spirit. Woodland Spirit by the way is a nonsense card - you get a Gold 7 Strength card which is hard enough to get rid of, free 1 Strengths in your Close Combat, and if you're playing right a bunch of Foglets, plus now all your opponents Ranged is reduced. That is WAY too much power behind a single card, and that is why Monster decks are NOT just "easy beginner decks". I can't think of any Gold Cards that can easily put 16 Strength on your board in a single turn with no combo and no reliance on any other cards.

And there are a ton of Monster cards like this. I know they need to have more than just Breedable but they are way too powerful. There's also that one 5 Strength Silver card that spawns a bunch of 1 Strength that also damages your side. It's just a bunch of double whammies in that deck and whatsmore they're all effortless double whammies. Even if I plan perfectly, Monster decks can play a single card that destroys it all. No strategy involved.

EDIT: I looked through the Gold Cards. What may have been used on you is Yennefer, and she spawned Chironex. But that should effect ALL cards, including your Opponents. That's the only Gold Card that can remove strength from multiple Gold units at once.

The card he means is called Philippa Eilhart (Effect: "Set the strength of all other units on the row to1." and she is loyal/disloyal).

But what big benefits have Monsters instead of getting multiple units at once, breeding or weather?
Sure the faction ability is quite strong in round number one but after this you will have many units on the deck and the ability keeps mostly shit on the board (like foglets).

The other factions turn like anything into gold, or getting everthing back from the graveyard so they can use the effect of the cards multiple times, or get a million of tokens wich are triggering effects of other cards, or have multiple units that are staying the whole game on the board if not removed........

And with Clear Skies, Dimeritium Bomb, Stammelford's Tremors, Scorch, Lacerate, Epidemic etc. you have enough to get rid of Monsters because the base strength isn't really high on units like Wild Hunt Riders, Arachas and Nekker.

 

[Maerd]

But what big benefits have Monsters instead of getting multiple units at once, breeding or weather?

The biggest advantage that lots of units there are weather resistant and you can debuff enemy units at your convenience and then just mass-tremor them, epidemic them or scorch the resistant. I usually have more than one copy of weather cards so there's only 1 or 2 clear skies won't help, especially I like to apply weather on buffed units. You can buff you favorite unit as much as you want in the last moment it will go down to strength 1. Also, for NK to make things golden they usually first buff them. When I see it I wait for them to spend their buffs and then apply weather before they went to gold. They only succeed if I'm realy unlucky on the draw and it's not even guarantee a win because I myself can buff my foglets sky high if not interrupted.

 

[kmepring]

The card he means is called Philippa Eilhart (Effect: "Set the strength of all other units on the row to1." and she is loyal/disloyal).

But what big benefits have Monsters instead of getting multiple units at once, breeding or weather?
Sure the faction ability is quite strong in round number one but after this you will have many units on the deck and the ability keeps mostly shit on the board (like foglets).

The other factions turn like anything into gold, or getting everthing back from the graveyard so they can use the effect of the cards multiple times, or get a million of tokens wich are triggering effects of other cards, or have multiple units that are staying the whole game on the board if not removed........

And with Clear Skies, Dimeritium Bomb, Stammelford's Tremors, Scorch, Lacerate, Epidemic etc. you have enough to get rid of Monsters because the base strength isn't really high on units like Wild Hunt Riders, Arachas and Nekker.

It isn't just those though. Higher level Monster cards not only have weather and breeding effects, but also burn effects. And used right they can spawn so many creatures you need exact combos to beat it.

And more than that, you need to make specific decks to deal with Monsters. Other decks you can make a strategic way to deal with all of them. Monster decks you almost have to build your deck to directly counter it. And since you don't know what kind of deck you're playing against until you picked yours, that means you'll either have to make a generalized deck and just give up on the Monster opponents, or vice versa.

And yes I know, if you completely pad a deck with Special Cards you can maybe win. But then you have nothing to play on the board that can counter the FIVE Gold Cards your opponent has, and you're just allowing them to keep those Gold Cards on the board. See the issue here? Great, I can get rid of all their low strength cards. But you have to do that all at once to be effective. And then no matter what, since they have nothing else on the board, they get to keep Eredin or Geralt or Woodland Spirit.

It's a circular problem.

 

[DragomirG]

Please stop complaining! There is nothing special in that deck. I played only monsters since I got invited to the beta and at first it seemed strong because they are not affected by frost + i have a lot of buff/debuff cards and it gives the impression to counter everything. As I progressed people with scoia, northern realms and craig beat my ass over and over again. I just cannot do anything. They have cards that feed on special cards used or they buff their cards to insane amounts (48+) and I got only 1 scorch card (if im lucky to draw it i use it earlier). Play 20h+ and you will see

 

[Blackshatan]

or you guys can just bring that earthquake card that deals 2 damage to all units of the enemy team?

 

[ElvenNeko]

I don't really get what's your problem with Eredin.
Ever tried to use Radovid, for example?

 

[DX_V]

Radovid

Yeah Mad Rad is powerful too.

I don't feel like the Eredin spawn is the biggest issue with the Monster deck, or an issue at all to be frank. Keeping that one random card is the issue, and can potentially allow players to sweep games very easily. Maybe change it to another activated ability the deck has? Allowing a Monster deck player to choose when he/she activates the ability, but the ability is still random.

Cutting out gold cards from the ability seems unfair, as i've won games against Monster decks where they've held over a garbage card at the end of round.

 

[yiersansiwu]

Respect from the call. You know why they say monster is imba? Because they want to build their combo. But zhe monster player not follow their ideas.
monster not need to changes. Because monster has infinite possibilities. But they only have combo.
Why we only have one choice，Rather then having unlimited possibilities.
（My English is suck，please forgive me. ）:smiling2:

 

[Yourfacetm]

Monster isn't even considered to be in the top 3 decks. It's actually viewed as the weakest clan as of right now. Yes their ability is good, but it's also an RNG roll.

Currently every other clan has a higher tier deck than any monster deck.

If they are going to start nerfs and balance changes, then there are several cards that need to be balanced well before anything in Monster.

Maybe if you just started the game it can seem really strong? I personally haven't lost to a monster deck with my current Hawker deck.

There has been a meta analysis of thousands of games over the course of several weeks to determine the meta, based off competitive environments, which determined a tier list that you reference? No? Okay then.

I hope no one else brings up tiers when nothing to establish them has taken place yet.

 

[Maerd]

Heh, I finally saw someone who's consistently winning against my monster deck... with full set of awesome unique gold cards (dimeritium bomb, Regis, the last wish and Igni), when I have just Geralt. Yeah, you can do it... for now, till I've got my hands on those myself.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

There are gold cards which can reduce Gold cards. Iorveth for instance, and I believe Triss also. None that I know of that can drop ALL gold cards to one, though I figured out a combo where I can severely hinder them (use Iorveth and then leader Eithne to do it again can get rid of a Geralt). But if I didn't have that it would be impossible to beat most good Monster decks that have Woodland Spirit. Woodland Spirit by the way is a nonsense card - you get a Gold 7 Strength card which is hard enough to get rid of, free 1 Strengths in your Close Combat, and if you're playing right a bunch of Foglets, plus now all your opponents Ranged is reduced. That is WAY too much power behind a single card, and that is why Monster decks are NOT just "easy beginner decks". I can't think of any Gold Cards that can easily put 16 Strength on your board in a single turn with no combo and no reliance on any other cards.

I don't agree with this. There are lots of cards that can put 16 or more points on the board with little set up, and Woodland spirit isn't no set up because you still need the foglets in your deck to compliment it. The best part is the weather effect which can be countered with any type of clear sky's. That gold card that I mentioned to you is FAR more powerful as it reduced EVERYTHING in my row to 1 and I had absolutely no way to counter it.

And there are a ton of Monster cards like this. I know they need to have more than just Breedable but they are way too powerful. There's also that one 5 Strength Silver card that spawns a bunch of 1 Strength that also damages your side. It's just a bunch of double whammies in that deck and whatsmore they're all effortless double whammies. Even if I plan perfectly, Monster decks can play a single card that destroys it all. No strategy involved.

I haven't used that card before but I know the one that you are referring to and it's not that strong. It doesn't do much damage to your side so it's point total including the damage it does to you I don't think is much higher than 10 if that and without doing damage to your side it's pretty average.

EDIT: I looked through the Gold Cards. What may have been used on you is Yennefer, and she spawned Chironex. But that should effect ALL cards, including your Opponents. That's the only Gold Card that can remove strength from multiple Gold units at once.

I'll have to check and report back. What I remember is a single gold card being played on my front row so it was a spy and its strength I believe was 6. It wiped out everything.

Edit: It was Phillpa Elhart. That card is OP in my opinion.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

I

And more than that, you need to make specific decks to deal with Monsters. Other decks you can make a strategic way to deal with all of them. Monster decks you almost have to build your deck to directly counter it. And since you don't know what kind of deck you're playing against until you picked yours, that means you'll either have to make a generalized deck and just give up on the Monster opponents, or vice versa.

I just want to mention that after seeing some of the insane stuff that NR has done to beat me I have had to adjust my deck and strategies specifically to have any chance to beat them. I'm not mad that I had to do this. I think that it keeps the game interesting.

I
And yes I know, if you completely pad a deck with Special Cards you can maybe win. But then you have nothing to play on the board that can counter the FIVE Gold Cards your opponent has, and you're just allowing them to keep those Gold Cards on the board. See the issue here? Great, I can get rid of all their low strength cards. But you have to do that all at once to be effective. And then no matter what, since they have nothing else on the board, they get to keep Eredin or Geralt or Woodland Spirit.

It's a circular problem.

I so far have supported that Monsters ability should not keep Gold cards but I will also mention that the only way to know that you are going to retain that high card is to give up a round by playing only one or two cards. After that it's pretty much all RNG and could give you shit. Other faction abilities are far more consistent and can net you even more points. Like the copy ability on NR for instance. Not only can you copy the highest card on the board which can easily be over 30 points by that also compliments their strategy of sending them to the next round and turning them to gold.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

gold cards are immune to buffs also, and thats their weakness.

Unless I am imagining things I swear that I saw NR buffing gold cards......

 

[DrDrPremu]

Unless I am imagining things I swear that I saw NR buffing gold cards......

Gold cards with a special ability to get increased due to other cards played (e.g. if you have a reinforced siege tower made to gold, and you play another gold card which will increase their value by two) will still get buffs. Also, there are cards which can affect any gold cards. (e.g. Yennefer) But you can't target those gold cards directly.