My biggest bother of this game [Spoilers]

[Ayinde_Palmer]

You know, a lot say that the Heist failed, but I am actually to say that it succeeded. Namely,

Spoiler

the klepping of the relic. We succeeded in achieving it. One thing that was perhaps overlooked is that, in the case V told him the relic was in her head, Dex never bothered to take it out after he shot her, deliver it to Evelyn, collect the eds and disappear.

My only biggest bother with the game is traffic, which seem quite a (persisting) challenge for the team to fix and maintain.

the heist succeeded, in direct terms, but survival is a goal that trumps success.

Now if dex didn't kill you and instead wanted the relic, then I'd say it could have succeeded.

maybe from the voodoo boys perspective it succeeded, if you don't kill them all.


Dex really panicked there, I mean he gave up on the job, hoping to destroy all evidence, he could have probably finished his job, and then maybe tried to clean up/hide

 

[CP20771010]

Just curious.... what happened if You accept Evelyn offer? You can sell her the relic directly?

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

Just curious.... what happened if You accept Evelyn offer? You can sell her the relic directly?

Maybe its gonna be moot.
But you can't actually take her up on that. The phone call you're supposed to make for that is not there.

Post automatically merged: May 21, 2021

Biggest problem with Jackie arc that nobody talks about is CDPR spoiling his whole death in a trailer LOL. I dont know other dev studio that does stuff like that. It makes me think we could maybe play that quest different way but they were rushed and have to cut stuff. I was so suprised that we saw major death that is importand for the motivation of our char in E3 trailer. You had millions who watched that trailer and nobody was shocked that Jackie dies. Huge mistake by CDPR.

Well, I never watched any of that and when I played through act 1 I (and probably many other like me) called it anyway. If you've played/seen games and/or movies like this enough Jackie's death was gonna be predictable in any regard.

 

[Niatka]

what bothers me is the simple fact that I am condemned to death from the start of the game. I believed in a miracle; no, you end up dying.
the fact that the heist is missed, the death of Jackie doesn't annoy me. but this faulty chip phenomenon, all the time, this is annoying/irritating.
I had made a game {I don't name it} in which the hero also dies. apparently it has become a fad to have the hero die in the end.
obviously we will all die one day; sooner or later. I don't need to know it again in a video game.

notice; I died at age 7, disaster of 1986.

 

[AikoHayashi]

Biggest problem with Jackie arc that nobody talks about is CDPR spoiling his whole death in a trailer LOL. I dont know other dev studio that does stuff like that. It makes me think we could maybe play that quest different way but they were rushed and have to cut stuff. I was so suprised that we saw major death that is importand for the motivation of our char in E3 trailer. You had millions who watched that trailer and nobody was shocked that Jackie dies. Huge mistake by CDPR.

In a sad way, this is good because people cannot speculate that Jackies was supposed to live and they killed him to make place for someone else, but indeed, this is a huge spoiler.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I had made a game {I don't name it} in which the hero also dies. apparently it has become a fad to have the hero die in the end.
obviously we will all die one day; sooner or later. I don't need to know it again in a video game.

For me, surprisingly, it's really good.
I find that it adds emotion to hope during whole game and that in fact, no ! Nothing, V will die anyway... Like in RDR2, when my lovely white horse died, god... so tough, so good
I would have liked less (or been less touched at least) if it was a "Care Bears ending"*.

*it make sense in english ?

 

[Anarchizt]

I don't like feeling like a victim the entire game. Everyone else in the story feels more powerful and in control of themselves in this story.

You can have all these story elements that is in the game, without making the player feel like shit throughout.

 

[Simpson3000]

I don't like feeling like a victim the entire game. Everyone else in the story feels more powerful and in control of themselves in this story.

You can have all these story elements that is in the game, without making the player feel like shit throughout.

Exactly my point for starting this thread. It feels like the whole story is written around the idea to depress the player, as if no matter what he/she tries fails in the end anyway. We dont even have a chance to victory over destiny, no it always kicks our ass. The game literally gives us an entertaining game over.

And what makes it worse is that unless CDPR completly upsidedown the story retrospectively, that there wont be any dlc to continue the life of V. This hope pretty much died. That gives me kind of a bitter aftertaste for this game. I thought about to rename it for me into Cyberdepression 2077

 

[Anarchizt]

And people defending this saying "well its Cyberpunk"

Yeah I completely get that, but shouldn't it be "cyberpunk" for everyone and everything in the story?

 

[MrGuyton]

Exactly my point for starting this thread. It feels like the whole story is written around the idea to depress the player, as if no matter what he/she tries fails in the end anyway. We dont even have a chance to victory over destiny, no it always kicks our ass. The game literally gives us an entertaining game over.

And what makes it worse is that unless CDPR completly upsidedown the story retrospectively, that there wont be any dlc to continue the life of V. This hope pretty much died. That gives me kind of a bitter aftertaste for this game. I thought about to rename it for me into Cyberdepression 2077

I found out quite refreshing, though I take your point entirety. There are so few games and films that give us a real tragic hero. Most protagonists in games are developed to become all powerful superbeings that save the world from whatever evil is present with a cliffhanger of some kind to lead in to the next instalment. I quite enjoy the hope-filled futility of V's story.

I don't like feeling like a victim the entire game. Everyone else in the story feels more powerful and in control of themselves in this story.

You can have all these story elements that is in the game, without making the player feel like shit throughout.

There are plenty of other characters who aren't in control even though they should be.
*spoliers*

Dex tried to take control, panics and winds up dead on a landfill site. Evelyn loses it, gets hacked and then commits suicide in the bath. Jackie nearly makes it big but bleeds out in the getaway car. If you look at the victims of the rescue gigs, reported crime and assaults they're often similarly tragic characters

Many are "little people" taking a chance at the big time and coming up short. Like I said it's refreshingly different, but truly "cyberpunk" in its outlook, real urban tales of hopes faded.

 

[Czembro]

Exactly my point for starting this thread. It feels like the whole story is written around the idea to depress the player, as if no matter what he/she tries fails in the end anyway. We dont even have a chance to victory over destiny, no it always kicks our ass. The game literally gives us an entertaining game over.

And what makes it worse is that unless CDPR completly upsidedown the story retrospectively, that there wont be any dlc to continue the life of V. This hope pretty much died. That gives me kind of a bitter aftertaste for this game. I thought about to rename it for me into Cyberdepression 2077

I fully agree with you. The whole CP77 is comparable to one of biggest game design sins - player character failing in the cutscene, no matter the outcome of the fight that occurred before it.

Also, because of how the ending is constructed, and how save at point of no return behave (after ending player is reseted, as if the ending haven't happened yet) I don't think CDPR will continue the story as V in the DLCs. At least not without some retconning.

There are plenty of other characters who aren't in control even though they should be.
*spoliers*

Dex tried to take control, panics and winds up dead on a landfill site. Evelyn loses it, gets hacked and then commits suicide in the bath. Jackie nearly makes it big but bleeds out in the getaway car. If you look at the victims of the rescue gigs, reported crime and assaults they're often similarly tragic characters

Many are "little people" taking a chance at the big time and coming up short. Like I said it's refreshingly different, but truly "cyberpunk" in its outlook, real urban tales of hopes faded.

Yeah, but they made mistakes, that's why they lost control. Problem is, V will fail no matter what. There is a supposed timer on the relic, V gets pills from Misty that should slow down the process, but there is no way to actually succeed. Even if we do the main storyline as fast as we can, Arasaka or Alt will always fail to safely remove Johnny and return V his/her body, stating that relic already made too many alterations to it. Only the Star ending gives some hope, but it's very flimsy, because all it does is saying "the search for the solution continues", which in reality doesn't mean anything.

 

[Simpson3000]

There are so few games and films that give us a real tragic hero. Most protagonists in games are developed to become all powerful superbeings that save the world from whatever evil is present with a cliffhanger of some kind to lead in to the next instalment. I quite enjoy the hope-filled futility of V's story.

Yeah its ok to not be always the superhero in the game but with their decision of this games story path they went away from the mainstream and "only" satisfied a single favor of peoples storyfinals.

I mean they could have added a final in wich V can fix the damage that the relic caused in V´s brain, perhaps with a very very difficult in game achievement but they decided not to satisfy both the dramatic and the heroic oriented customers.

 

[Anarchizt]

I found out quite refreshing, though I take your point entirety. There are so few games and films that give us a real tragic hero. Most protagonists in games are developed to become all powerful superbeings that save the world from whatever evil is present with a cliffhanger of some kind to lead in to the next instalment. I quite enjoy the hope-filled futility of V's story.


There are plenty of other characters who aren't in control even though they should be.
*spoliers*

Dex tried to take control, panics and winds up dead on a landfill site. Evelyn loses it, gets hacked and then commits suicide in the bath. Jackie nearly makes it big but bleeds out in the getaway car. If you look at the victims of the rescue gigs, reported crime and assaults they're often similarly tragic characters

Many are "little people" taking a chance at the big time and coming up short. Like I said it's refreshingly different, but truly "cyberpunk" in its outlook, real urban tales of hopes faded.

Here is the problem though. Dexter Deshawn's untimely demise is due to his own actions, he is very aware of the risks associated with what he was doing. he was always in control until he wasnt. Still more control than the main protagonist.

Evelyn wanted to get rich quick because of "reasons" and ended up comitting suicide. She choose those actions and was in control until she wasnt. Still more control than the main protagonist. She knew many things and choose to withhold that information, because down the line she was probaly going to kill the main protagonist.

All these characters that you mention have one thing in common and thats the main protagonist, which just adds to bad feeling around you. People you work with tend to end up dying. Now I know Takamura dosn't. but he also has loyalty to others and motivations that does not benefit the main character. If you storm arasake tower by yourself, its implied he kills himself. He has more control than the main protagonist.

Jackie Wells is meant to be your spanish mirror, no matter your background and a advance premonition of what happens to you. He has no control like you because of this reason.

I repeat you can have a "tragic" hero story, without it becoming depression on the player controlling the character.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Problem is, V will fail no matter what.

For me, it's not a problem
V's fate is virtually sealed from the start. And yes, he fail to survive, it's true... But as for all living things, "as long as there is life, there is hope" and for me, it's that, the engine of the story.

Also, as Alt says in Mikoshi :
When V says "I'm fed up... All that, for nothing...", she replies "But by dint of perseverance, you have earned the right to choose..."
In fact, V did not fight for nothing, but rather to have the possibility of choosing how the end of his life will be. Either pretty sad with Arasaka, a little less becoming a legend or much less with Panam (could even be very happy). A sort of victory in short.

But it's my point of view and I like this kind of stories a little bit sad. And I'm not sad when I'm playing and I'm not thinking "oh no, V is going to die anyway..." No, I do as I would, I think, if I were to die soon, I would enjoy the present moment

 

[Czembro]

For me, it's not a problem

Good for you.

V's fate is virtually sealed from the start. And yes, he fail to survive, it's true... But for all living things, "as long as there is life, there is hope" and it's that, the engine of the story.

Here's the problem - V didn't fail, but more like was failed (if it makes any sense). The story is presented in a way showing that there is a timer and V has a means to postpone the change (Misty's pills), but it doesn't matter from the very start. V's actions (and in extensions player's actions) are meaningless from the very start. The point of the game is to save V, and it is sealed from the very beginning that it can't be achieved.

Also, as Alt says in Mikoshi :
When V says "All that, for nothing...", she replies "But by dint of perseverance, you have earned the right to choose..."
In fact, V did not fight for nothing, but rather to have the possibility of choosing how the end of your life will be (a sort of victory in short).

Another choice in this game, that doesn't matter. It's like Mass Effect 3's red/blue/green endings all over again.

But it's my point of view and i like this kind of stories a little bit sad

There is difference between sad and hopeless story. In one of my all time favorite games, Dragon Age: Origins, my warden

Spoiler: DA:O spoilers

died at the end, even though he had means to save himself. It was sad, but it was my/my warden's choice to sacrifice him/himself for greater good.

That's exactly where CP77 fails - it's not a sad story, but a hopeless and meaningless one.

 

[KunoichiRider]

That's exactly where CP77 fails - it's not a sad story, but a hopeless and meaningless one.

Hopelessness, insignificance, absence of meaningfulness, "the void", nihilism.
All heavily featured, if not prevalent in film-noir, which is a major influence on the Cyberpunk genre.
You can criticize this game for many things, but not for staying true to the genre in the vibe of its story.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Czembro, you could said whatever you want, even if you think I'm wrong (maybe I am). It's my opinion and nothing could change it (and I don't expect everyone to share it)

And for me, to spend what you have left to live at trying to stay alive rather than "just live", that, it would be failure

 

[Czembro]

Hopelessness, insignificance, absence of meaningfulness, "the void", nihilism.
All heavily featured, if not prevalent in film-noir, which is a major influence on the Cyberpunk genre.
You can criticize this game for many things, but not for staying true to the genre in the vibe of its story.

It's very convenient that CP77 "statys true to the genre" in this matter, but not in much else.
I recommend you to watch this review, if you hadn't already:

 

[AikoHayashi]

It's very convenient that CP77 "statys true to the genre" in this matter, but not in much else.
I recommend you to watch this review, if you hadn't already:

For me, the game is cyber, punk, and cyberpunk.

 

[Spectral_Warrior]

I've gone on about this topic of the endings to death (pun intended) in the namesake thread, and I have little interest in dragging all that back up.
What I will say however is that I side with the majority and that I do have an issue with the ending. But not so much so with the road from heist to the ending.
I was just very convinced that embers was the halfway point, rather than the beginning of the end.