Once again, a reminder to always be respectful when posting on this forum. It's the rules.
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Oh yeah, it's not doing particularly good job at doing them justice, but my main point is that the style of games 2.0 tries to mimic is like a polar opposite of what the original team had in mind when they were developing the base game (which is a game inspired by The Witcher 3, Deus Ex, Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines and the Elder Scrolls series).
So, now we have a game with severe case of the identity crisis, with new ideas tacked on the foundation of other game entirely, new systems not always working properly, new mechanics producing bizarre results and people who worked on it clearly saw no issue with any of this...
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Oh tell me about it, I made the same with Blades as a secondary weapon. Unless I got consistent head shots with the pistol, it was easier and quicker to switch to Blades. They've really boosted melee weapons now, making guns almost a waste of time.
It's like we're taking crazy pills though because everyone else loves it apparently.
Some people really liked Diablo 3 on release too, and people actually put up with the systems in D4 and I won't touch that game even for free.
I do get a bit of that vibe though, I went tech weapons and it doesn't matter which kind as long as I'm hitting the bolt shot timing. At least you can sit in a menu and do some vaguely intentional process to roll custom stats for your build I guess. Isn't that a D3 or D4 system almost too?
Four days? A whole four days???!!! Wow!!!
Four days is not enough time. Four weeks (one month) maybe, MAYBE, but four days no. That is just silly. (And is actually somewhat suspicious for being such a short time).
And so you can confirm there was no way to preview the changes in person (no beta).
As someone who put well over 400 hours on Pc alone, and that was AFTER playing pretty relentlessly on the PS. I had zero issues with the combat, and I had no idea that any combat changes were going to be that drastic.
Because, I dunno, I trusted (shocking, I know) CDPR to put out a quality product that I would like.
Anyway it does not matter, I have so heavily modded the combat now that the actual base game combat is unrecognizable. It’s a shame, I kind of was proud by being (almost) entirely mod free this whole time.
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So first it's "they should have released the changes before the DLC" - which they did.
Now it's "they should have released the changes at least a month before the DLC".
Furthermore, you said you felt how wrong the changes were "right away" but now four days isn't enough?
Look at those goalposts
I don't know, I managed to preview the changes. In person. Y'know, because the changes were in fact released days before the DLC and we all could experience them.
Had I disliked the changes, or had the performance hit been as terrible as CDPR had made it sound it would be, I would have returned PL right there and then.
Good for you! I genuinely mean that. Good that you managed to get the game to a point where you're fine with it. It's what mods are for. Tailoring your experience to your wants and needs.
I've put in over 600 hours into the game prior to PL and loved the old system and I didn't expect these changes either. I don't think anyone did. Sometimes companies release a quality product that just isn't for you even if you want it to. It happens. It doesn't mean that everyone who likes it is wrong or that you are wrong for disliking it, it just means it's not for you.
It sucks that it changed a game you like into something you dislike but they didn't pull a bait and switch on you to get you to buy PL - you had plenty of time to return PL but chose not to.
Thanks for the link. And you're right, that explains it. We'll never be certain there wasn't push back against it from inside the team, but if their direction was set to achieve "high-speed, relentless, visceral, push-forward combat" (quoting direct quote from the article), I would assume objections held little weight.
I feel like that kind of gameplay (which isn't for everyone) favours tactics (what thing you do to get through an encounter) over strategy (plan to get through an encounter). And it might be a subtle change, but it definitely is polar. Now you don't need a plan, you just need the fastest (and to its credit?) flashiest moves, and keep doing it until everything is dead.
Head-first combat rushing is clearly a goal of the changes (we can argue corner cases where it's not, but by and large it is that, it would be silly to argue otherwise). You are only very rarely reminded that discretion or stealth could have worked (a couple of gigs where the fixer says effectively "well, discrete would have been better, but you got the job done".
I spent more hours of my life playing Diablo 2 than any other game before or after, and basically never played multiplayer so it was all SP. It was an unhealthy obsession. And so in saying they were influenced by it, they're also demonstrating how they've missed the bigger picture. Not only did they have big flashy top of the tree skills, but they also had levels. Character, enemy, area levels. Those skills were mandatory to clear some areas, not others and there was a progression to it that made those skills make sense in the grand scheme of things. That vibe is missing from the skills implementation in 2.0. IMO.
We're not crazy
What is with you? Why so aggressive?So first it's "they should have released the changes before the DLC" - which they did.
Now it's "they should have released the changes at least a month before the DLC".
Furthermore, you said you felt how wrong the changes were "right away" but now four days isn't enough?
Look at those goalposts
I don't know, I managed to preview the changes. In person. Y'know, because the changes were in fact released days before the DLC and we all could experience them.
Had I disliked the changes, or had the performance hit been as terrible as CDPR had made it sound it would be, I would have returned PL right there and then.
Good for you! I genuinely mean that. Good that you managed to get the game to a point where you're fine with it. It's what mods are for. Tailoring your experience to your wants and needs.
I've put in over 600 hours into the game prior to PL and loved the old system and I didn't expect these changes either. I don't think anyone did. Sometimes companies release a quality product that just isn't for you even if you want it to. It happens. It doesn't mean that everyone who likes it is wrong or that you are wrong for disliking it, it just means it's not for you.
It sucks that it changed a game you like into something you dislike but they didn't pull a bait and switch on you to get you to buy PL - you had plenty of time to return PL but chose not to.
I don’t even know what your argument is anymore.
You said they released the combat info four days beforehand, I said it should have been longer. How is that moving the goal posts on my end? Because I am being a bit vauge on the timing? Do you want an exact minute per minute detailed account of what they should have done? I was just talking in generalities. I am only responding to what you were posting. If you had said there was “three” days before launch I would have said three weeks or something. Five days would have been five weeks. I was just riffing off what you said.
There was no beta. There was only four days of their own controlled videos released to the public (which I said I was avoiding to avoid spoilers) to make combat judgements on.
And so what even then? Was there any indication that the over the top mono wire demonstration stated in a strong and decisive way that the stealth way was being almost entirely eliminated? I would have just interpreted the video as “Oh, they added more net runner combat styles. Cool. Not for me, but maybe someone else might like it.”
There is no way “four days of their own controlled youtube video” = “I should have known what was going to happen with the elimination of a play style I greatly enjoyed” by a game company I kinda trusted.
And even then, after all that, I probably would still not have believed it. No way I would have believed it.
There were bonuses for stealth, they had cyberware to avoid tracing, they had cyber decks that promoted that type of gameplay, why on earth should I have expected the elimination of stealth netrunner?
It’s a single player game. The playstyle is “OP”? It’s too easy? Who cares?
They could have preserved my
play style while also adding a myriad of new ways to play a netrunner. Instead they made it more restricted to a particular singular kind of build, with the elimination of the stealth way.
This is not a criticism of you or anyone else here that enjoys that new way, it is a criticism of CDPR. If you enjoy the new system, great! Enjoy! Adding a way you enjoy to play was a good addition by them.
But the elimination of what -> I <- enjoy is my issue here, and one that deserves criticism of CDPR.
In general, looking at both 2.0 and Phantom Liberty itself, I feel like they had a desire to create something completely new and different. But since creating an entirely new game is not an option before Orion, they opted to rework the first game.
As others have said, 2.0's design style is the opposite of the original game, and - for me at least - Phantom Liberty really felt like it was written by writers who aren't nearly as talented as the original ones.
Agreed.
There's no denying that 2.0 is a serious cut back on freedom, variety, features and mechanics that made the game so intricate, deep and fun to play, for the purpose of oversimplification to such point that the game lost a lot of its unique identity and builds being cut down into mere pre-determined classes/archetypes.
What felt incredibly fitting and even immersive for a lot of mechanics in 1.6, most of which are now completely gone or feel extremely gimmicky as if they came straight from a shallow looter-shooter such as Ubisoft's Division, or an ARPG such as Diablo 3.
- Rolling for stats on cyberware
- Unable to customize weapons in the year of 2077, instead gotta pray to RNG Gods to get one with no slots
- Gimmicky *do this to get that to achieve this* type of hacks, perks and bonuses
- Absolutely everything scaling (enemies, loot, experience, prices, attribute checks etc...)
- Half the loot containers no longer being even lootable because loot was reduced
- Netrunning now trying to act as some sort of weird Netrunning/Monowire/Smart-Gun hybrid playstyle (which thankfully can remain pure Netrunning)
As far as I was concerned the game just needed bug fixes, optimization and improvements to the existing systems & areas while throwing in whichever additions they wanted to add on top of existing stuff, in order to achieve ultimate perfection that made the game what it was.
Playstyles in particular did not need such massive reworks, they just needed consolidation of the useless/pointless perks to clean up the perk tree and minor improvements, while Crafting needed some massive improvements because it was only ever truly useful for Iconic upgrades. Then just throw in all the mechanics from 2.0 and GG, got the best version of the game ever made with a ton of new toys to play with. But unfortunately 2.0 instead feels like a Cyberpunk 2077 Lite Edition.
With all of this said; personally I am still enjoying the game, having fun, loving it. My stealth Netrunner playstyle remained pretty much the same as it was with 1.6... but is the overall experience better than 1.6? Does it feel better?
Eh... that's the problem. It should have been better, but instead it just feels different and in most cases less than before. Where are my daemons and where is my Breach Protocol, something I loved using all the time. Lining up 7 daemons at once gave me so much satisfaction. Where's the amazing utility that all quickhacks had in 1.6, making each one unique and interesting to experiment with.
So if I had to make a choice between 1.6 and 2.0 to play Phantom Liberty, I'd honestly choose 1.6 any day of the week. At least the overall vision of the game was cohesive and everything fit perfectly. 2.0 unfortunately does not feel that way, it feels like two games from two different studios jammed into one. The new additions are fantastic and I really love them, the reworks however are questionable to the point some are clashing against the original designs or don't really feel exciting (looking at you quickhacks).
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This really needs attention. In a lot of places I am opening doors that require a high strength or tech skill check to find an empty container, or literal junk inside.
Some quest rewards are also laughable now too, like Regina's Psycho Killer. All that effort for a vest and a pair of pants?
Sad to see a lot of the crafting skills gone. No auto junker? But broken weapons auto dismantle? Wha....
I got this impression too, I haven't checked but I'm guessing most of the team that worked on the original game weren't around for Phantom Liberty. Not that it didn't have its moments, but I had to turn the subtitles off because looking at some of the dialogue made me want to correct it.
I could be wrong, but it's unic clothes. Pieces of clothes you can't get anywhere else
Yeah, I really miss this one
No aggressivity. At worst I was being a bit cheeky in my previous post. That's typically how I respond to goalposts being moved.
Then you ask how you moved the goalposts. I won't get into that again - my previous post points it out exactly.
So let me re-iterate it. You said that you would continue to say CDPR baited you in with a content DLC and then switched the combat on you. I am saying that they didn't pull a bait and switch on you - I made sure to re-iterate that very point in every single one of my answers to you.
Dude....
Now it's videos?
I literally told you that patch 2.0, and it's changes, was released on September 21, 2023. PL was released on September 26, 2023.
So let me make this as clear as humanly possible.
There was no beta.
I am not talking about "controlled Youtube videos".
I am talking about us, the players, being able to download, install and play with patch 2.0 on September 21, 2023.
On September 21, 2023 we got to play with the changes. The general public. Not CDPR showing it off, not a chosen few for a beta. It was available to anyone who owned the game. This thread was created because the OP played with the changes after the patch was released to the public. We got to experience the changes ourselves days before PL was released.
Again - there was no bait and switch. CDPR allowed us to experience the changes ourselves days before PL released. Hate the changes, hate CDPR, hate the world for all I care but don't try to create some false narrative that CDPR baited you in with PL and then switched the combat on you. That didn't happen.
So it was an early release then? I was not aware. So, Ok sure. Whatever. Does not really change alot to me.
To me it still feels like a bait and switch.
I had a gameplay type that I really enjoyed, that they themselves implemented, and then took out without much warning. They baited me in with years of fun gameplay then decided to target eliminate it for no satisfactory reason or warning.
At this point it feels like you are just arguing semantics and being overly pedantic. I don’t know who you are trying to convince here.
I agree. The hacking feels overly week. this shouldnt be a gta clone. This is cyberpunk! That said, we CAN hack cops now, which is a much welcome change.
I'm not sure about the Trauma Team tac vest but the Decadencia Verde trousers you can get elsewhere. I remember finding the TT gear before 2.0, but not since.
A full set of tier 5 Decadenia Verde armour weave would be nice (shirt, pants and tac-vest).
Yeah now clothes do no longer have stats, it's not that great, but at least still better than just some eddies or a random weapon like most of GIG "rewards"
Dunno what any of y'all are talking about with the quickhacking being neutered. I'm level 30something, and I'm wiping gangoons out left and right with quickhacks. My combo for stealth is "sonic shock" and either contagion(make sure all the gonks are sonic-shocked first though) or sonic shock and short circuit. I rarely have to get out of stealth. Also throwing knives with poison is awesome as shit.
I've been primarily a netrunner and I'm at level 60. Once you unlock overclock you're able to basically end a conflict before it even starts with a Tier 5 Raven deck + System Collapse. Like I'm consistently able to go into conflict, hit Overclock, spam like 3-4 system collapses, have the Raven spread it to another couple, and drop groups of like up to 8 or so before they knew what hit them.
Or if I want to be more overt about it, Contagion + Overheat has been highly amusing.
Then there's always the amusing bit of throwing Sonic Shock + Cyberware Malfunction x2 + Cyberpsychosis into a queue, and using that to precisely take out the harder enemies and watch the ensuing chaos.
And all of this is on Very Hard difficulty btw. At this point, I'm fairly well convinced that the netrunning complaints aren't a game issue, it's a player skill issue.
Or if I want to be more overt about it, Contagion + Overheat has been highly amusing.
Then there's always the amusing bit of throwing Sonic Shock + Cyberware Malfunction x2 + Cyberpsychosis into a queue, and using that to precisely take out the harder enemies and watch the ensuing chaos.
And all of this is on Very Hard difficulty btw. At this point, I'm fairly well convinced that the netrunning complaints aren't a game issue, it's a player skill issue.
^^ preach chooms, idk what are these people on about, but netrunning as well as all the gun builds are completely fine, in late game you just obliterate everything like you're supposed to, the difference is that now you actually need to work a bit to get there. pre 2.0 very hard was a joke, now it feels like an appropriate challenge, at least from early to mid game.
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