Never played Cyberpunk, but have always been a massive Shadowrun fan.

[AdamTaylor]

Never played Cyberpunk, but have always been a massive Shadowrun fan.

Can someone who has experience with both systems give me a bit of a rundown on how they compare as far as mechanics and such goes?

 

[Suhiira]

Overall Cyberpunk is a more "realistic" system.

Combat is lethal.
No healing spells/potions/what-have-you, there's really no such thing as "bullet proof", any fight where you're outnumbered (even by street thugs armed with makeshift weaponry) is especially dangerous. As such combat is usually the last resort, so there's more emphasis on guile, persuasion, bribery, or whatever to accomplish your goals.

The game system is skill based rather then class based.
Any character can learn (almost) any skill and become good at it, the exception is that each "role" (the CP version of classes) has a single skill only that role can learn which makes them better (but not so much better they're "gods") at the one specific thing they do best; i.e. a decker/hacker has a special role skill that makes them better at hacking, a Solo (the "combat" role) has one that increases their battlefield awareness and combat initiative.

There are of course many other differences but those are the major ones.

 

[eraser7278]

for starters there's the dice curve for task resolution. in cyberpunk just about everything you do is governed by Stat (1-10) + Skill (1-10) + 1D10 roll, with some adjustments thrown in for gear and situational modifiers. that total is compared to a difficulty number decided by the GM, ranging from a 5 for a mundane task all the way up to a 35+ for pulling off the "impossible." this means that if your character has a Ref stat 8 and handgun skill 6, you know your "base" before the dice hit the table is 14, so assuming you don't roll a 1 and the gun you're shooting isn't a total POS you can reliably hit at short range.

contrast that with SR 5.0, the only edition I've messed with. there you're working with fistfuls of D6's, which means none of your years of training nor your natural aptitude guarantees your character a damn thing. last time at the table my phys-ad was chucking 22 dice into the tower to hit with his weapon of choice, and there were plenty of times i got a pool of 2-4's and he didn't his shit.

cyberpunk's dice mechanic skews to the extremes, 10 % of the time you fuck up, 10% of the time you pull off something amazing. SR's fist full of dice skews towards the middle, where you don't succeed of fail dramatically at regular intervals. I'm partial to cyberpunk, knowing the base gives you a better understanding of what your character can do day after day, coupled with those 1's and 10's that add drama* to a character's life.




*warning: exposure to "drama" can be hazardous to your health, and has proven fatal in many cases. 9 out of 10 corporate wage-slave doctors surveyed recommend limiting ones exposure to drama as much as possible.

 

[Suhiira]

One thing I liked from Vampire: Masquerade was the "botch" system.
You still rolled a fist full of dice in the game but 1's were auto-fails and in fact cancelled out successes. The more successes (or fails) you got the better (or worse) the result.

I'm not saying this is a good system for CP2077, just that it was a pretty interesting system.

 

[Doomblade403xxx]

i disagree with suhira on the deadly part. In cyberpunk 2020 a character can literally walk into the first combat with cheap gear that can stop a standard 44 magnum 60% of the time with standard loads. 11mm over 90% of the time, and anything smaller you might as well be pelting them with bottle caps. Only those who don't buy armor or are really dumb end up dead.

Now that's not to say a real villian your up against couldn't be rocking some specialized ammo or weapon that could totally mess up your day. Most of your common gangbangers are spending more of their hard earned euro on their vices than they are on superbullets, but solos are a different matter. Edgerunners of any stripe usually have one or two mags of specialty ammo and aren't shy about using it. This doesn't mean she is totally wrong, because in the game of numbers the odds can swing out of favor quickly, and bullets aren't the only thing in cyberpunk that can kill you. An asshat with a cyberleg can stove your chest in and that's alot more painful than a bullet I wager.

She is correct that combat likely should be avoided, but alot of times it can't be. A smart punk hedges his bets to come out of a fight alive.

Eraser is right on about the dice. Most of the time the fights I've participated in are at close to medium range. Depending on your build you may already have the base to hit just adding skill + ref before the modifiers. Add in bonuses for weapon links, acc, plus the roll and it's often disgustingly easy to get a hit. Opposed checks are a little more democratic in that it's very possible for you to crit a success in say martial arts and your opponent to fail a check to dodge or block. Of course this could also swing the other way as well.

I personally have always liked the simplicity of cyberpunk.

It's easy peasy

Stat + Skill + Mod + roll = total

In one roll of the dice you have an answer on whether you hit/miss/failed/succeed and it's all good.

 

[Suhiira]

Only those who don't buy armor or are really dumb end up dead.

Yep, as they should be.
If you wear decent body armor in RL you're fairly safe from most pistol caliber rounds too.

The problem is in Cyberpunk people that do gunplay for a living aren't stupid, they know the opposition has body armor so they use BIG guns or rifles. Your typical street punk doesn't, duh.

 

[Doomblade403xxx]

No need to get touchy

A .44 magnum is in the top tier of the largest handguns on the planet in cyberpunk. 12mm is roughly the say. For all the hoopla about 454 it isn't much more powerful either and the way most of the 50 AE stats are, they are barely better. What's that leave. The 500 which i don't believe has ever been stated in game...the 14 mm which only one cyberpunk ever used as a handgun....or the 45-70 which is uber rare. Oh and the nova arms guns IF your gm allows them without calling them rare. You originally stated improvised weapons too and i see now you've changed it.

 

[Sardukhar]

Cyberpunk is plenty deadly and easily too. Just apply all rules and run the world setting appropriately. Never been an issue. Way too many dead characters would agree.

You can always find armour to defeat some level of weapon or round...but that's because you pick a level equivalency you've decided is common or accessible to make combat safer as opposed to how murder-evolution works in Cyberpunk. Cops wear armour, gangers carry AP and rifles. This is Cyberpunk.

If you want, you can go ACPA - there's ACPA killing rounds, cheaper than ACPA. Delivery platform can be pricey but, hey, unlike the armour you just killed, it's re-useable!

You can go full borg - Borg-killer-rounds cheaper than being a full borg.

Metal Gear - same story. 7.62 API isn't cheap, but it's a lot cheaper than that 600eb MG.

Door Gunners vest - yep.

Lighter armours yet - easy.

Layering armour complicates this a bit, but not really that much. As soon as everyone is doing that, everyone else starts carrying rounds and guns to defeat it. How the world works.

Every time you have an armour solution, you have an equally easy way to beat it. And the way to beat it is easier to carry around and hide than the armour solution.


You can totally have a GM with characters walking around with layered cyberarmour and a mix of soft and hard overarmours, plus cyberlimbs for extra safety. All the way up to full borgs or whatever your GM is comfortable with and your budget allows. That's cool.

More typically, I see parties of a couple fairly tough people and more pretty squishy normal-ish people who use their resources for non-getting-shot-at-by-7.62API-or-30mmDPU-round kind of stuff. Good guitars, nice vehicles, really amazing gear sets for modifying..whatever. Plus a little armour and bang bang. They leave the heavy stuff to the Solos.

Which is fun! Makes for interesting times.

But it doesn't make Cyberpunk less deadly. Just forces combat types to really concentrate resources to survive.



And the other truth? A healthy, unaugmented, not-wearing-his-helmet ( I so love when PCs do that on Night City streets. Hello shoot-me-I'm-the-Solo combat starters) combat professional of ten years experience can, yes, die to a single .22 round to the head. It'll happen automatically, in fact, if the weapon is point blank to touching.

 

[kanonite]

As others mentioned, lack of magic, easier to understand system and Black Trenchcoat combat (and setting)

(For those not in the know, Black Trenchcoat is a shadowrun term for campaigns that lean more toward gritty, realistic and tactical).

 

[eraser7278]

with the flip side of the coin being... damn, it's on the tip of my tongue...

so what is pink mohawk style cyberpunk/shadowrun?

Pink Mohawk-style games emphasize style over realism, allowing for things like big, bombastic battles where the lead flies thick in the air and with the right dice rolls runners can perform actions that might not be technically possible in the real world (or even the reality of the Shadowrun world). Characters tend to be long on style, make a lot of wisecracks during combat, and take a lot more risks because they know that the heroes (almost) always survive in the end, even if they don’t win. The name comes from the art style prevalent in the earliest editions of the game, where many of the archetypical characters had a “bigger” but less realistic style than more modern characters.

for the cliff notes version, see "the tremor brothers"

 

[Suhiira]

with the flip side of the coin being... damn, it's on the tip of my tongue...
So what is pink mohawk style cyberpunk/shadowrun?

​Minus the dwarves, elves, orcs, trolls (unless they're part of a Poser Gang), and of course the "real" vice "techno" magic, most anything in Shadowrun works in Cyberpunk.

​As far as appearences go ... I suspect if you look around long enough you can find just about anything.
​Once upon a time I spent New Years Eve and Hollywood & Vine in Hollywood, CA ... I certainly saw a few things I didn't expect.

 

[eraser7278]

PINK MOHAWK

you'll know it when you see it

 

[kanonite]

with the flip side of the coin being... damn, it's on the tip of my tongue...

so what is pink mohawk style cyberpunk/shadowrun?


for the cliff notes version, see "the tremor brothers"

There's also Mirrorshades, which is a balance between the two styles. Cus shades are an accessory that compliments both trenchcoat and mohawk.

 

[Suhiira]

Cus shades are an accessory that compliments both trenchcoat and mohawk.

Plus those trenchcoats aren't just a fashion accessory, they're frequently Kevlar lined.

 

[eraser7278]

black trench coats are a fashion statement, and a social one as well. it reminds onlookers that the world around you is harsh and unforgiving, causing them to question the very nature of their existence... insert more meaningless flowery/artsy bullshit here.

why else would one wear a trench coat? it's not as if it serves any utilitarian purpose....

mirrored shades are optional, but make one look 300% more badass.

 

[Suhiira]

Actually they make great raincoats if made from the proper material, I used one for years.

 

[eraser7278]

got a nice calf length london fog one myself... problem is if i wear it when it's not overcast i get funny looks... people know and fear the power of the trenchcoat!... though that could just be a California thing, i doubt they get a second look on the east coast.

 

[AdamTaylor]

Most of the Shadowrun my friends and I played was 2nd edition (pretty sure it was second).

Combat was quick and violent and generally lethal. Usually didn't have gunfights in the street much (if that happened, you're either ambushed or a crappy runner).
Combat focused on making use of cover. Getting shot was crippling. The more wounds you took, the worse all your stats got, so being shot quickly made you useless. And most characters couldn't take more than a bullet or two without dying. Or at least needing all sorts of patching up.

Admittedly, I always had a thing for cybered Trolls in combat armour who would scare the crap out of enemies who realized he wasn't going down.

 

[Sardukhar]

Most of the Shadowrun my friends and I played was 2nd edition (pretty sure it was second).

Hm. I don't remember having that experience, but it's been years. Was pretty easy to stage damage from Medium to Light or lower, iirc. Autofire only raised staging, I think, it didn't do multiple hits, so it wasn't that potent.

But, again, it has been years.

 

[Maelcom404]

The problem is in Cyberpunk people that do gunplay for a living aren't stupid, they know the opposition has body armor so they use BIG guns or rifles. Your typical street punk doesn't, duh.

Also, a typical street punk won't mess with someone that look mean, they'll settle a trap or something.
They'd rather go rob someone that can't oppose any resistance (unless they're drunk / high or whatever)

Anyway, never having played Shadowrun, but having read through the lore books written by some authors, there aren't "much" things that differs between SR and CP.

Probably the rules, but in a pnp, the rules aren't really the "core" of the game (you can avoid some, or create one that you forgot or lacks from the game), it's about the narrative and how you manage to let your players enter your universe.

The only main difference between CP & SR is that CP is based in "our" world, and SR is in a fantasy one.
If you're up to play a gritty, ultra-violent campaign, ala Robocop/Terminator/Blade Runner/Strange Days or even Alien (there are rules for space, etc... Up to you to create a genetic monster to freak them out) then, Cyberpunk is what you need.

If you're up to play a more "fantasy", unrealistic game, Shadowrun will probably kicks you more, there are dwarves, goblins, dragons, elves, magic, etc...
The "Cyberpunk" core stay the same, the Netrunner is now a Decker, the Solo a Streesamurai, etc... but the big picture is still here.

Those are the two major differences.
Cyberpunk rules can be a mess to deal with at first, but you'll soon find a way to make them confortable with how you're usually playing your games, apart that, there are kinda similar.
Tho, Cyberpunk 2020 is maybe more "ultra-violent" than Shadowrun, due to it's lore and the fact it's more "real" in the situations it's supposed to depict, humanity getting at a deep low.
In Shadowrun, you can use the fantasy elements to make things interesting, or add something out of the box in the mix, here you have to focus on reality, so that can be more challenging at times, you need to be inovative to keep your players interested, using various things to thrill them, going from a rob in a corporate center, to negociate with hostage takers, doing security for a superstar, etc...
Not just stealing cyber-arms prototypes and fighting IA.