wow, i really hope very little of this is true. 4x the size of the total witcher 3 map is stupidly big and the map wasn't exactly silky smooth at W3 size.
Doors and windows and the like being destructible? quality idea. buildings? that will need a lot smaller map, look at the trouble crackdown three is having with that idea on a big map and that map is half the size of W3.
respecs? i am okay with in class. consonantly being able to totally change class seems like a way for people to get lost in play styles they haven't gotten used to in more difficult parts of the game.
I don't see what the problem would be with the game world being even bigger is size. It's just more environments and space to work within.
I don't know what you're talking about with "silky smooth" map issues, unless you are referring to some engine limitation.
As for destructible windows and doors, it is what it is. Really nothing more than either an "open" or "closed" state, with special effects.
I don't think anybody even remotely expects RFG style destruction, anyone implying that is exaggerating.
Can't speak for Hoplite but big worlds are boring and troubled in that there's less stuff per mileage the bigger you go, and the longer the game goes the more you need to travel back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and from there the more tedious and choresome it gets with every repetition after a certain threshold. It's just more propscenery to bother the player with, not interactions just stuff to look at, nothing but dead gameplay. It is sometimes nice to just take a stroll and look at things, but that can be acheived without going ridiculous with the map size (and inadvertently as a consequence cut down gameplay opportunities and interactivity that would actually matter, because the bigger you go the more you have to work with). I gave an opinion on fast travel earlier on already, so I'm not going to go there here. I'm looking at these things from a purely practical standpoint, and I can't find any reason beyond sightseeing to have an extraordinarily large map just for the sake of having one and showing off. The novely will dry out quickly and even if it might feel like "being held back" by sticking with smaller maps, I do believe it would be worth it.
Deus Ex MD could have been a great example if it had been another game with different priorities and actually explored those maps and their inhabitants and gameplay possibilities in (much, much) more detail in a much more comprehensive interactivty and character systems. As a concept, that is. MD would've been a tad too small for CP2077 still, but the idea/implementation of Praque there was sound and that's a great platform to build something more comprehensive.
Can't speak for Hoplite but big worlds are boring and troubled in that there's less stuff per mileage the bigger you go, and the longer the game goes the more you need to travel back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and from there the more tedious and choresome it gets with every repetition after a certain threshold. It's just more propscenery to bother the player with, not interactions just stuff to look at, nothing but dead gameplay.
A larger map would make sense though if vehicles are introduced, so it could be a combination of a relatively smaller city with high density of content, and large areas outside with occasional settlements and points of interests. Players would normally use vehicles in the latter, while their use would be limited in the city. The Witcher 3 actually already follows this design to some extent, think of Novigrad or Beauclair vs. the rest of the map, and Roach serves as a kind of "vehicle", but galloping is disabled in the cities. Another (not sure if good) example is Dying Light and its expansion, where the DLC has a much larger map but you also have a car. Content density does not need to be constant over the world map if the differences can be balanced somehow so that having to travel large distances does not become a chore, but rather adds variety.
A larger map would make sense though if vehicles are introduced, so it could be a combination of a relatively smaller city with high density of content, and large areas outside with occasional settlements and points of interests.
Yeah, I get you and I did think about that, but in my view it doesn't really touch the back/forth tedium (which is a different kind of tedious if you can just teleport via fast travel) and meaninglessness of the gameworld. If it took you 20 minutes to cross the map with a speedbike, full throttle, there's a ton of map that's "just there" without any other purpose than for you to cross. Only props to look at and the content density is faaaaar and wide. That might fit with a forest based fantasy land like Witcher (although I through the maps were too big for their own good there too), or an abandoned dead city like Dying light, but it's kind of waste gameplaywise in a big bustling city. Content density certainly doesn't be the same all around; quieter places do exist, and it'd turn into a Bethesda drivel if there was "dungeon/enemygang every five meters", but there is a line to draw between those.
GTA, Saint's Row, Assassin's Creed, Watchdogs, Sleeping Dogs, you name it. They all have the same ailments. I would wish CDPR didn't turn a blind eye on that with CP2077 here (least of all just for showing off that they can go bigger....).
I'd much rather have smaller maps all around Night City with abstracted travel between them. Even if the combined landmass of those areas would be 4 times Witcher 3 as rumoured...
Green areas being the playable part:
In any case, I would try to find ways to mitigate the prop-map syndrome somehow whether the game is 10 times Witcher 3 in one flat map or not. That's the crux of the issue I have with it, useless map portions and dead gameplay in them.
It's fun but not worth the taxation on the systems. Qhysics is one of the most taxing parts in games. I honestly doubt that Cyberpunk 2077 can be made for current gen consoles so imagine having fully destructible environments as well.
Is this the reason why GTA 4 and RF:G can be run on Pentium 4 or Pentium D but Witcher 3 struggles to go higher than 10 frames in crowded areas and Fallout 4 (both absolutely static open world games) have negative decensy to drop below 0.0fps?
Fallout 4 has the NPC's and critters for "destructable environment" plus a gigantic amount of other clutter with physics. It's likely not the whole story, but I bet it's something.
As far as "destructible environment" goes, that's not what implied with this "leak". And the point was different, to debunk this "heaby taxding phbyzingz" meme. Less careful programmers are the most taxing component of any game. Any.
I don't know what system you are playing on but TW3 runs at constant 60fps wth me. I agree that in the major city of Fallout 4 it falls in fps. But TW3 is known for being well optimized.
Yeah, I get you and I did think about that, but in my view it doesn't really touch the back/forth tedium (which is a different kind of tedious if you can just teleport via fast travel) and meaninglessness of the gameworld. If it took you 20 minutes to cross the map with a speedbike, full throttle, there's a ton of map that's "just there" without any other purpose than for you to cross. Only props to look at and the content density is faaaaar and wide. That might fit with a forest based fantasy land like Witcher (although I through the maps were too big for their own good there too), or an abandoned dead city like Dying light, but it's kind of waste gameplaywise in a big bustling city. Content density certainly doesn't be the same all around; quieter places do exist, and it'd turn into a Bethesda drivel if there was "dungeon/enemygang every five meters", but there is a line to draw between those.
GTA, Saint's Row, Assassin's Creed, Watchdogs, Sleeping Dogs, you name it. They all have the same ailments. I would wish CDPR didn't turn a blind eye on that with CP2077 here (least of all just for showing off that they can go bigger....).
I'd much rather have smaller maps all around Night City with abstracted travel between them. Even if the combined landmass of those areas would be 4 times Witcher 3 as rumoured...
Green areas being the playable part:
In any case, I would try to find ways to mitigate the prop-map syndrome somehow whether the game is 10 times Witcher 3 in one flat map or not. That's the crux of the issue I have with it, useless map portions and dead gameplay in them.
One thing your missing is those games copy the real world and in the real world there is these vast tracts of space with nothing in them. In the world Cyberpunk this is jacked up to the 10th degree because small towns no longer exist and the country is primarily populated by major cities like Night City. Though since the game will take place in California, where Night City is located I don't think the wastelands will be all that bad compared to the rest of the country. And I'd rather they have Night City nice and open like your aforementioned games since it's supposed to be one of those Triple A games with a massive dev group and some major financial backing.
You misunderstand me (which might be my fault, I have a tendency to rat about tangents and not always be clear). By "nothing" I don't mean empty space in rural areas, I expect most of CP2077 to be within Night City. I mean that there is stuff there but it is completely irrelevant to the player. For most of things you see, you can go there and touch it, but it does absolutely nothing. The world exists almost solely to be looked at, not interacted with. Smaller areas have the benefit of being more interactive and "busy".
For example... Driving around the city in GTA V you have stuff all around you, big buildings, traffic, pedestrians, airplanes... but that's really the whole game outside missions, looking at pedestrians troddle about and traffic to build up, see the nice weather effects. Maybe driving over a couple of people or maybe creating a traffic jam and lauging at the AI for 5 seconds, maybe do a minute of yoga or tennis... That's all of it, that's all there is to the game. It's a held as a huge achievement, and it kinda is in certain manner, and then when you look more closely and see that that's all it is beyond the heavily scripted story.... Yeah, please not that for Cyberpunk.
There was always something to try, however trivial, back when we played the PnP. A cRPG can not match those levels of interactivity, but it can do its best because no matter how busy and cool the street where I stand looks, it does nothing if it's just a visual trick and the gameworld is gameplay-wise dead between the story-missions and some toying around with the AI bots that gets old after the first time.
I don't know what system you are playing on but TW3 runs at constant 60fps wth me. I agree that in the major city of Fallout 4 it falls in fps. But TW3 is known for being well optimized.
Not *Mine*, the game runs like this on the same P4(D) without enabling taxing physics in the same time while older titles flaunting with taxing physics run fine. Mine runs fine with new GPU, don't be worry.
For example... Driving around the city in GTA V you have stuff all around you, big buildings, traffic, pedestrians, airplanes... but that's really the whole game outside missions, looking at pedestrians troddle about and traffic to build up, see the nice weather effects. Maybe driving over a couple of people or maybe creating a traffic jam and lauging at the AI for 5 seconds, maybe do a minute of yoga or tennis... That's all of it, that's all there is to the game. It's a held as a huge achievement, and it kinda is in certain manner, and then when you look more closely and see that that's all it is beyond the heavily scripted story.... Yeah, please not that for Cyberpunk.
Agreed. BUT !
The big issue is "how" to accomplish this?
It's all well and fine to say something is "good" or "bad", but without a viable solution it's rather pointless.
New topic time?
"How to make a game feel "alive"?"
Agreed. BUT ! The big issue is "how" to accomplish this? It's all well and fine to say something is "good" or "bad", but without a viable solution it's rather pointless. New topic time? "How to make a game feel "alive"?"
By all means make a new thread about it. If I make it it'll have to be dug up from page 10 by tomorrow. Better topic would be about "sandbox gameplay and content" (CDPR has a specific designer for that to my recollection). I'm sure nearly everyone agrees the game is "alive" at face value as long as the NPC's move around and there's an occasional random event you can participate in or just watch what happens. But I've been talking more about keeping the player active and interested in thw world through the characterbuild. Small things, bigger things, stuff to keep the character useful and interesting all the time, seeing a possibility for something however minor even when nothing special is happening (and knowing that none of that is ever mandatory or required, but all of it is useful in some way some time): e.g. "There's nothing going on right now, no missions or anything, maybe I'll just interview/interrogat/chat with some pedestrians to see if something comes up. My skill for it isn't great, but no harm in trying."
Meanwhile, CD Projekt RED hires more staff on one interesting position - junior quest designer: http://www.skillshot.pl/jobs/8060-ju...cd-projekt-red
Interestingly, no need for AAA game experience, only modding. I'm pretty sure there was a polish modder stopping by this beautiful subforum.
I'm sure we can speculate the shit out of it. Have one, I'll start:
"Those are provided when the candidate decides to start a testing procedure and it has to be delivered on time in one of the following engines: REDkit (preferred), Skyrim Creation Kit, Neverwinter Nights 2 or Shadowrun."
See that? REDkit is preferred. Might be meaning that the Redkit since TW2 didn't suffer lot of pivotal changes in how to work in it so TW2 veterans would adapt faster to a CP2077 variant. If there's any complete mod support planned ofc.
Meanwhile, CD Projekt RED hires more staff on one interesting position - junior quest designer: http://www.skillshot.pl/jobs/8060-ju...cd-projekt-red
Interestingly, no need for AAA game experience, only modding. I'm pretty sure there was a polish modder stopping by this beautiful subforum.
I'm sure we can speculate the shit out of it. Have one, I'll start:
"Those are provided when the candidate decides to start a testing procedure and it has to be delivered on time in one of the following engines: REDkit (preferred), Skyrim Creation Kit, Neverwinter Nights 2 or Shadowrun."
See that? REDkit is preferred. Might be meaning that the Redkit since TW2 didn't suffer lot of pivotal changes in how to work in it so TW2 veterans would adapt faster to a CP2077 variant. If there's any complete mod support planned ofc.
