Yea, however you never have to play him from hand.
You get up to 15 points for having him in your starting deck.
That is like saying Flying Redanian is bad, because it only adds 9 points for its provisions.
So, who else is already theorycrafting some Madoc decks?
Should be cool on a NG deck with Letho KS for a 2nd Madoc. Might even be a little broken, there's a reason why NG doesnt have this type of summon/carryover cards like crowmother/Flying Redanian, because they can create multiples of it.
And if opponent also plays (and there will be lots of players trying it out on first few days) - you can copy it with Dudu, Imposter leader ability and seize it with amnesty/sweers... Yeah i think NG meme decks will like this card.
(EDIT) Actually, Madoc might be horrible vs other Madoc players, because they surely have the bomb that banishes with 4 dmg, which is one of the few bombs that is kinda good and useful, making quick work of this card
Should be cool on a NG deck with Letho KS for a 2nd Madoc. Might even be a little broken, there's a reason why NG doesnt have this type of summon/carryover cards like crowmother/Flying Redanian, because they can create multiples of it.
And if opponent also plays (and there will be lots of players trying it out on first few days) - you can copy it with Dudu, Imposter leader ability and seize it with amnesty/sweers... Yeah i think NG meme decks will like this card.
(EDIT) Actually, Madoc might be horrible vs other Madoc players, because they surely have the bomb that banishes with 4 dmg, which is one of the few bombs that is kinda good and useful, making quick work of this card
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Not really, Flying Redanian hardly requires any interaction or adding specific cards to your deck. This cards requires adding cards you likely wouldn't have in the first place...and not good cards. I can see it working in specific factions but it's not likely going to be more impressive than what they can already do.
I doubt that expending that many provs would be worthwhile. The card's value is because it can be played in multiple rounds, meaning that you'll have to have bombs in your starting deck to gain additional value. There are of course ways to use bombs that aren't in your staring deck but again, you are expending a lot of high provision cards and restricting deck building options, in the hope of pulling off such a combo, which at best plays for minimal returns. Not to mention, Madoc, will be an easy removal target for many decks. Surely there are better targets for such DC/Canterella plays? I would think that NG poison might be a better fit but DC shenanigans seems pretty wonky at best. Also, I expect to see an increase in people adding Moondust to their deck considering how many more targets and utility the card gives you. Would be funny to queue into Lippy/Cerys with a Northern Wind deck, though.
ST is the obvious one, as MaB is fairly popular, although gods knows how it would fit into the existing ST Saber deck list. Perhaps Sammun can be added too. Dragon's Dream? Think the card cost is somewhat prohibitive. Will make for some toxic ST/NG poison lists that's for sure.
I think the guy means that the point display is incorrect whilst using Sabertooth, but I guess it's hard to be accurate and write good sentences when you are typing in capslock...
Nice idea to share deck ideas.
Regarding Letho it can be powerful dependent on when you have him. You can transform a 10 provision cards for a 10 provisions card. Probably you also need some tutoring so that the deck works smoothly and perhaps an alternative target for Letho (Maybe with Living Armour Package or Damien). Fitting leader might be either tactical decision (if you have enough provision for Snowdrop/Affan) or Imposter.
From my perspective the most synergies are there for the bandit package as Bomb Heavers also have nice synergies with bombs. Currently I do have a Dracoturtle + Iris + bandit package deck including Dancing Star and Red Haze.
Maybe it should also be debatted which bombs do make sense with Madoc:
- Samum: Even + Madoc it will be a 6 for 4 + eventually moving potential. Most be very lucky to have a target so that you really benefit from moving after deathblow. Can maybe make sense with Dol Blathanna Sentry on Melee.
- Dimeritium Bomb: From my perspective the most useless bomb ever. Maybe if you face Hamadryad and there is no Dryad's Caress as an answer it has some value. But you face them rarely and so it´s just garbage
- Red Haze: That´s a nice one. If you are lucky you can destroy an opponent engine card or dependent on the deck you face (e.g. Thrive) it can generate a lot of value.
- Northern Wind: As already mentioned strong against other Madocs, Flying Redanian, Cerys an Craite + Lippy; Crow Clan Preacher; Crowmother; Blue Stripes Commando; Phoenix; Ruehin; Crow Messenger
- Moon Dust: Can generate value if you face opponent defenders, Resilience, Shield, Vitality
- Dancing Star: Nice swarm punisher; Can easily be a 6 for 5 (and a 9 for 5 combined with Madoc)
- Devil's Puffball: Sometimes used in poison decks. Maybe masquerade ball + Poison package + bomb package is a consideration. But will you then have enough nobles? The new SY self-poison package might use it but I doubt that this deck has enough room for many bombs + Madoc? Also questionable it makes sense with SC poisoners as you probably do not benefit from harmony much when you have many not harmonizing bombs
- Dragon's Dream: This is a high risk - high reward deck. Can have a maximum value of 27 if your opponent has a full row and no answer. Best synergizing with Guerilla Tactics as row punisher.
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OK, so they managed to fundamentally break the game despite the fact it has been virtually not changed at all - GGs CDPR! Or is it a bug that was there before? If it is the latter my guesses are: Viy, Lippy or the entire Nilfgaard fraction...
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I noticed today that Battle Rush said it would be active for 6 more days. I suppose that could be taken as an indication that update is next week -- but it could also be a placeholder and equivalent to "a later date" like in the tweet. I would guess the latter, but it's 50/50.
The goal would be to play Madoc and Letho KS on R1, so you can have 8pts of carryover for R2 and 3, which is bigger than any similar card right now.
Of course you dont want to stuff a deck with bombs since most are subpar, but this new card might make them better. Also, removal is not scary at all, you just play another bomb and get it on board again. Only counters are banish/seize - doubt players will use Heatwave on a 3pt unit, but the banish bomb might become quite popular.
Why dancing star can be 7 for 5? It deals 3 damage plus 2 to the right unit if deathblow, isn't it? Seems very underwhelming
It seems worth it in a vacuum but you are sacrificing tempo and round control for a not inconsiderable amount of provs in order to do this. Not to mention that you'll essentially have to weaken your deck to add some bombs for some sort of consistency. Perhaps it could be a thing but I don't anticipate it being 'broken', that's all. But who knows, I'm sure the meta will soon be full of homebrew decks trying to exploit Madoc in interesting ways.
ST seems like a better fit. Less rejigging of provisions to do, considering a lot of control decks run a bomb already. NG poison might be a thing again too because Devil's Puffball is actually a good card, just too expensive, which is something Madoc might re-balance somewhat. Pehaps it'll be better to judge it after the Feb patch, maybe some reworks are under way that might encourage players to use bombs in other factions.
Horrible. CDPR Showing absolute obliviousness and disregard of the state of the game. I expected so much more of this patch. With the new expansion came a bunch of cookie-cutter hearthstone-like decks (VIy, Movement ST, Card manipulation NG) that are have no place for optimization. Many of the cards in those decks just blatantly land for twice or more than twice their provisions without any downside and the conditions for this value are a pure formality. The most unhealthy I've seen Gwent since the Undertaker-Scenario meta. Here are a couple quick points, just my opinion:
- Cards like Viy should not exist because they force the player to go all out on squeezing value for them and leave virtually no room for other packages and thus no room for reactive cards. Viy decks do not care about what the opponent plays. That is not to say they cannot be countered- they can, and when they are, they just leave the game because of their inability for counterplay and adaptation. This is neither fun, nor interactive. It is Hearthstone.
-It would have been much better to release bronze witchers for each faction that support different archetypes instead of all of them supporting the same archetype - card manipulation for NG, emo self harm for SK, movement for ST, and so on. If the bronze witchers supported different archetypes, they could have fit into different decks with various packages, instead of being one big cookie cutter package that fits optimally in a single deck. This is just poor game design, again, extremely similar to Hearthstone. Have you guys hired some ex-HS devs?
The good thing about Gwent, in my view, was that you could play around with various small packages and tech cards that synergized in a hundred different ways, and you could make an interesting deck and tune it to the meta. This rewarded you for paying attention to what is played and playing against it. Right now this is no longer the case. Now it's just whole decks being printed where the player really doesn't have much room for creativity or personal style. You just pick one and roll with it. This will eventually lead to some matchups being instantly forfeited upon game start, and that's not healthy for the game at all. Just like in Hearthstone.
CDPR, please remedy this. Adios until then.
- Cards like Viy should not exist because they force the player to go all out on squeezing value for them and leave virtually no room for other packages and thus no room for reactive cards. Viy decks do not care about what the opponent plays. That is not to say they cannot be countered- they can, and when they are, they just leave the game because of their inability for counterplay and adaptation. This is neither fun, nor interactive. It is Hearthstone.
-It would have been much better to release bronze witchers for each faction that support different archetypes instead of all of them supporting the same archetype - card manipulation for NG, emo self harm for SK, movement for ST, and so on. If the bronze witchers supported different archetypes, they could have fit into different decks with various packages, instead of being one big cookie cutter package that fits optimally in a single deck. This is just poor game design, again, extremely similar to Hearthstone. Have you guys hired some ex-HS devs?
The good thing about Gwent, in my view, was that you could play around with various small packages and tech cards that synergized in a hundred different ways, and you could make an interesting deck and tune it to the meta. This rewarded you for paying attention to what is played and playing against it. Right now this is no longer the case. Now it's just whole decks being printed where the player really doesn't have much room for creativity or personal style. You just pick one and roll with it. This will eventually lead to some matchups being instantly forfeited upon game start, and that's not healthy for the game at all. Just like in Hearthstone.
CDPR, please remedy this. Adios until then.
Have you not been around for the last expansions ?
Full archetype decks have been around for a long time and especially since the last expansion with highly synergistic archetypes such as SK Warriors.
Losely connected decks (at best including packages) have been around and were (in my opinion) the worst period Gwent saw in early homecoming.
This might be the only point I found in your post, which I agree with, the reason Viy decks being the way they currently are is because of the scaling they introduce, the next tutor is always better than the last and thus (once you have started including them) outmuscle all other options one could pick instead, by construction not leaving space for alternative routes.