Patchnotes 7.3

[Windrunner58]

I just don't understand why people have so much hate for ball, or scenarios in general. Heatwave is a lot lower risk. Even not playing against ball or scenario, you are likely to get at least 6 points of worth out of it, not considering the strategic play behind it (remove a defender, an over boosted engine, etc.). So unless running devotion, heatwave is good to include in deck. Ball on the other hand, once removed only leaves you with a 4 point engine which will be a lot harder to trigger without the scenario.

Plus people seem to forget playing double ball also means you'll have assire, matta, and at least 4 (very likely more) aristocrats in your deck. So basically almost your entire deck revolves around this one gold which before could be easily removed. And they are not exactly powerful without ball.

I loved playing against single/double ball because it's easy to win against, unless you play one of the only few decks that are an auto-loss against ball (if that's possible)

 

[Frya]

NG still oppresses everything that isn't 3 top metadecks just fine, killing most attempts at creativity.

Creativity? Greed.

NG being control archetype, is like a hunter in a forest, that keeps in check destructive predators, so the ecosystem can function properly.

I mostly play Underwhelming Hunger MO, it's just sad how NG faction has been treated recently because I wanted to play it more. I had no interest in playing double ball cheese, I think removing it is no brainer, but NG golds that see play need to be buffed.

 

[Eldeon2]

Now we're talking.
Efficient control isn't just "a" problem, it's THE problem of the game atm. With so many cheap damage/removal options being available, there absolutely no way to develop slow cards. Not even with a defender. Control - especially the kind where numbers don't matter - should come with heavy drawbacks. Right now there're mechanics that improve your point-generation through control like Dames, Hamadryads, Gord, Warriors, so you can ruin your opponent's strat WHILE getting a lot of points, which isn't okay. You can have either or a bit of both, but not everything at once. All kinds of control need to be taken down a couple of notches tbh

This is the worst idea for future of gwent. After the removal of efficient control, you will be left only with absolutely noninteractive decks. The meta will instantly shift to the most greedy deck and all games will be brain-off slamming of the strongest engines, without worrying about the opponent stopping you, because he will also just point slam engines, without any control cards that would interact with you. In the end, the player with more engines will win, and winning will be dependent only on randomly drawing better cards than your opponent (eg. more golden (stronger) engines). Every deck that is not currently the greediest will be unplayable, because it will always loose (given the same consistency). After the two games, it will be the most boring meta in gwent.

On the other hand, the most intense and fun game are control vs control (eg. NG vs. NG). You need to outsmart your opponent and play mind games, because you know, that if you play your strong cards and engines too early, they will get countered or removed, but if you play them too late, they will not be efficient (wont provide enough points for you to win). So you have to bait your opponent into wasting removals on bronzes, protect your golden cards and win the round control for last say. Control vs. control matchups increase interactivity, increase skill ceiling, which in turn increase replayability and decrease staleness. Every game will be different, because everyone will try to outsmart and outplay the opponent and will have the proper tools to do it.

Current hate for NG is because its combo breaker - the greedier combo you have, it gets more frustrating to get countered and shut down (with locks and poision). But its role for health of gwent is essential, because it gives players tools to punish overpowered greedy decks and forces deck crafting to be more balanced and include protection cards like defenders, shields, veil etc. The NG downside is that on its own it doesnt have enough points to win, it depends on outplaying opponent. Without NG, without efficient control, the future of gwent will be boring and stale.

 

[ya1]

Oh noes the top tiers got punished by a couple of provisions how will they ever recover??

Maybe by switching one of their 7p to the equally strong 5p? No... they wouldn't do that AGAIN, would they? That would be so uncool by them. But Passiflora got Doomed so everything is peachy in line.

 

[Fargothwave]

I just don't understand why people have so much hate for ball, or scenarios in general. Heatwave is a lot lower risk. Even not playing against ball or scenario, you are likely to get at least 6 points of worth out of it, not considering the strategic play behind it (remove a defender, an over boosted engine, etc.). So unless running devotion, heatwave is good to include in deck. Ball on the other hand, once removed only leaves you with a 4 point engine which will be a lot harder to trigger without the scenario.

Plus people seem to forget playing double ball also means you'll have assire, matta, and at least 4 (very likely more) aristocrats in your deck. So basically almost your entire deck revolves around this one gold which before could be easily removed. And they are not exactly powerful without ball.

I loved playing against single/double ball because it's easy to win against, unless you play one of the only few decks that are an auto-loss against ball (if that's possible)

I hope you do realise how bad a card that necessitates Heatwave is for the game. Being forced into obligatory 10-point inclusion is bad enough on its own, but also has a derivative problem of breaking devotion.

Also "few" is a severe understatement. Fangs reach 12 for 8 upon killing a 4 pt body which is in line with other 4p cards, but doing so they also probably prevents a decent amount of value...and that means everything above 4p gives them even bigger advantage, so the only contexts where they don't play for a lot of points is either control, swarm or unitless(or maybe, just maybe some kind of janky ultrahardcore hybrid pointslam) which amounts to not even 30% of all the viable decks. So... everything else either struggles or is outright unplayable. I've mentioned it before, but don't mind repeating - the only reason Ball hasn't been as successful recently is that symbiosis/SW/warriors stuff is more broken.

 

[CaptainFahim]

The faction with some of the best bronze cards says their bronzes are not as effective as other factions . funny

3-4 points bronze cards easily get killed by other factions

Post automatically merged: Oct 1, 2020

This patch is a joke I'm taking a break.

probably me too

 

[Fargothwave]

This is the worst idea for future of gwent. After the removal of efficient control, you will be left only with absolutely noninteractive decks. The meta will instantly shift to the most greedy deck and all games will be brain-off slamming of the strongest engines, without worrying about the opponent stopping you, because he will also just point slam engines, without any control cards that would interact with you. In the end, the player with more engines will win, and winning will be dependent only on randomly drawing better cards than your opponent (eg. more golden (stronger) engines). Every deck that is not currently the greediest will be unplayable, because it will always loose (given the same consistency). After the two games, it will be the most boring meta in gwent.

On the other hand, the most intense and fun game are control vs control (eg. NG vs. NG). You need to outsmart your opponent and play mind games, because you know, that if you play your strong cards and engines too early, they will get countered or removed, but if you play them too late, they will not be efficient (wont provide enough points for you to win). So you have to bait your opponent into wasting removals on bronzes, protect your golden cards and win the round control for last say. Control vs. control matchups increase interactivity, increase skill ceiling, which in turn increase replayability and decrease staleness. Every game will be different, because everyone will try to outsmart and outplay the opponent and will have the proper tools to do it.

Current hate for NG is because its combo breaker - the greedier combo you have, it gets more frustrating to get countered and shut down (with locks and poision). But its role for health of gwent is essential, because it gives players tools to punish overpowered greedy decks and forces deck crafting to be more balanced and include protection cards like defenders, shields, veil etc. The NG downside is that on its own it doesnt have enough points to win, it depends on outplaying opponent. Without NG, without efficient control, the future of gwent will be boring and stale.

Not at all. Conditional damage trades and disables would be a game of wits(delayed row punish, movement, stuff like Wolfbane, Yrden etc.), whereas outright shutting down everything your opponent tries easily is about as complex as a club.

Worse yet, control it its current form fails to contain the worst offenders (Azar x Passiflora for example, certain Assimilation lists, Cahir, etc.), while completely suffocating decks that don't have a replacement engine.

So...greedy decks get demolished, the greediest ones get a pass. What was your point again?

 

[Frankensteyn]

Thanks for the nerves

 

[Barracuda88]

...
Double ball was weaker than single ball, so the assire comment is irrelevant.

Oh, so NG got a buff, then?

 

[EduFerraz]

Well, i always think ppl Who plays double Ball are noob.

And now seeing all The complains about The doublr Ball nerf o realize i was right.

Come on, you guys can make other creative decks, Just try to get out The necessity of having Ball or double Ball.

Ah, still thinks your NG is weak? Well, Just move to other factions untill The next patch and see If The changes are good.

I have to do this sometimes, moving factions because One or two key cards of my decks get nerfed and thats is "ok".

So stop being noob and change The deck/faction

 

[DRK3]

While everyone is busy arguing about Ball and NG nerfs, and how NR/SK nerfs were not enough, i took a closer look at the patch notes, at the other, ignored changes:

Slave Infantry provision went from 5 to 4. Oh, how the mighty have fallen...
Time for history lesson, gather 'round kids: this unit used to be the MOST EXPENSIVE BRONZE UNIT IN THE GAME (at 8 provisions, i believe), for quite some time in early Gwent HC. Its effect was the same, but it was 5power. And before the powercreep introduced with 5 expansions, you can imagine how powerful that was. Now its at the lowest provision any card can be. Sad.
I had a lot of fun with slave infantry decks, during both open beta and Gwent HC.

Oh well, time to go make a crazy harpy deck for nostalgic purposes...

 

[Lokiat0r]

Am I the only one really concerned about the effect Blizzard is going to have on the game? It seems to me that it's pretty much going to destroy any swarm / token spawning deck. Firesworn, NR volunteers, Deadeye elves, MO Glusty / Kikimore Queen decks could all be easily decimated with a single card.

EDIT - And SK ravens too...

 

[ya1]

In 7.3 we decided to rework most of artifact removal cards. The ones we've chosen felt overly impactful when they found the target, and very underwhelming when they didin't. This lead to very polarising gameplay experience, as the games often came down to presence (or lack of) cards like Bomb Heaver. (...)

That being said, not all ways of removing artifacts have been deleted from the game. Korathi Heatwave (...)

Am I the only one to notice that the statement in the second paragraph directly contradicts the argument brought up in the first paragraph? How is the gameplay experience any less polarized when Heatwave is left to do the exact same thing? Heatwave has already been the most important card to draw in many matchups. Now - as the only artifact removal in the game - it must be drawn in even more matchups. Devs did not fix the problem of binary interactions. They made it worse. The game just became even more polarized around drawing not a couple of different cards for different occasions but that one very card - Korathi Heatwave - in even more of your games.

Meta-wise, Heatwave was actually the only artifact removal commonly used last patch because of the downfall of NG, and this whole thing changes nothing for the meta. It only gives an excuse to nerf scenarios and remove Double Ball. But this has been discussed already. I'm just pointing out that the logic devs employ in their own argumentation is dubious. It just does not make any sense.

Post automatically merged: Oct 1, 2020

Am I the only one really concerned about the effect Blizzard is going to have on the game? It seems to me that it's pretty much going to destroy any swarm / token spawning deck. Firesworn, NR volunteers, Deadeye elves, MO Glusty / Kikimore Queen decks could all be easily decimated with a single card.

Yeah, another Yrden kinda card that kills a whole deck if it matches up right. It should not exist but if it must it should be at least 10-11 provisions like other matchup-cheese cards like that.

 

[ReaperTek]

Am I the only one really concerned about the effect Blizzard is going to have on the game? It seems to me that it's pretty much going to destroy any swarm / token spawning deck. Firesworn, NR volunteers, Deadeye elves, MO Glusty / Kikimore Queen decks could all be easily decimated with a single card.

EDIT - And SK ravens too...

Not really at the beginning of the year Blizzards "new" skill was on a high provision bronze Card (with Triss Tk you could play it 3 times during a match) called Epidemic without initiative and it didn't really see much play because it bricks even more easily than Scorch, the only time it was really strong was during the no Units Deck era before they introduced the requirement that each Deck must at least contain 13 Units.

It's also kind of good to have at least some kind of counter to Decks that plan on filling you're side of the Board like Rat Spawn and Spies.

 

[Sensimilius]

I don't quite see of what use can the new Blizzard card be... at 8 provision?? kills both yours and enemy lowest cards (if they're the same power ofc)? I wonder if anyone can come up with a creative and effective use for it.

 

[Barracuda88]

I don't quite see of what use can the new Blizzard card be... at 8 provision?? kills both yours and enemy lowest cards (if they're the same power ofc)? I wonder if anyone can come up with a creative and effective use for it.

You kill opening larvae, all firesworn, all volunteers, all deadeyes, all rats, treants and spiders. If people use the rockslide, they will use Blizzard just like they used Epidemic before, depending on the meta.

 

[Sensimilius]

You kill opening larvae, all firesworn, all volunteers, all deadeyes, all rats, treants and spiders. If people use the rockslide, they will use Blizzard just like they used Epidemic before, depending on the meta.

That's all too situational to cost 8 provision imo. :]

 

[Shagric]

Current hate for NG is because its combo breaker - the greedier combo you have, it gets more frustrating to get countered and shut down (with locks and poision). But its role for health of gwent is essential, because it gives players tools to punish overpowered greedy decks and forces deck crafting to be more balanced and include protection cards like defenders, shields, veil etc. The NG downside is that on its own it doesnt have enough points to win, it depends on outplaying opponent. Without NG, without efficient control, the future of gwent will be boring and stale.

That is where you misunderstand the hatred for NG, and this is why your whole argument is pointless.

Almost noone complains about NG locking your engines atm, because you can counterplay that now (veil, purify,..). Poeple complain about NG Ball because it can simply remove EVERYTHING (meaning any kind of unit, not every unit on the board!).
In theory, playing against a control deck should be countered by pointslam/tempo or swarming.
Swarm still is effective against ng because that's the ONE thing they lack an answer to, but pointslam?
Poison, yen invo, Vincent, bonhart, face melter (can't recall the name ffs), ...
You go tall against ng, you loose. Simple as that. And that's all there is to it.
NG ball removes the possibility of playing anything above 6 points, ever (which is also the duel/shield problem). That is the epitome of beeing unhealthy for balance. What ball ng player actually gives a shit about controlling (locking) growing engines? You will remove them all anyway so just let them grow and focus on keeping the board from going wide or locking down DMG threats that could counter the few points you play.

Edit: double ball had to go, because it was a coinflip abuse deck. 50% overall winratio doesnt matter if you aim to win 100% of your games on second play by abusing game machanics. same reason handbuff is so toxic and uninteractive and should never be buffed beyond anything tier 2 worthy (imo even tier 2 is a huge problem)

 

[Eldeon2]

You go tall against ng, you loose. Simple as that. And that's all there is to it.

Yes, NG is a control faction, so you need to spread your points. If you go tall with only 2-3 units, you lose. I don't see any problem with that. Or do you expect to go tall against control faction especially teched up against tall units and still win???

And there are many answers, poison can be stopped with veil, vincent with a purify, yen invo with defender... But the easiest answer is to spread your points, and then your average unit will be worth more points than NG average unit and you will win.

You need to accept that there is no deck to win them all, some decks are better against others. So yes, your tall deck will always lose against tall control, swarm decks will always lose against wide control. Depending on how many players play tall decks, tall control will have better win rate and wide control worse. In the current meta, NG tall control double ball is an obscure meme deck with a terrible win rate, that was deleted by devs for no reason, further restricting gameplay.

 

[StanislavOZZO]

Wow, I have yet to read one positive post about the latest patch. This one upsets so many people, and on very different aspects. Interesting.

Overall, this patch seems... strange? Some things were requested for months and only implemented now (doomed for scenarios). The nerfs to dominating factions are too timid. Some changes are not expected and silly (bombs), while there are so many cards that clearly need attention. The change I really liked is with the harpy. I love it when cards have character and resemble the personality of the person or some trait of the creature. I wish there are more changes like this.