Platform Discussion Thread

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Which API do you think CP 2077 will use?


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Yes, that's the issue, their changed policy about communication with the community. When did I say anything else was the issue? That policy changed for the worse, from casual to no communication. And no, it's not limited to Linux. It's literally about anything deeply technical enough.




It doesn't, since they don't even have there "Q: something, A: We can't talk about that". So it gives a false impression that they are willing to answer questions on technical topics, while in reality they are not. If you claim otherwise, show me one interview which asks them about graphics APIs in CP2077 and what they answered about it (that was the main topic of the merged thread). If you can find one, I'll agree that interviews can help with that. Otherwise I'll continue viewing their communication policy on technical topics as complete stonewaling.

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On a brighter side, a new monthly ProtonDB report came out, showing The Witcher 3 as being second most popular game reported.

This should be a good demonstration for CDPR about demand for better Linux games.

Gaming On Linux commented:


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cc @Marcin Momot about the ProtonDB report. Share it with CDPR higher ups, to reduce their Linux market skepticism ;)

Why produce for Linux when thats extra complicated?
 
Why produce for Linux when thats extra complicated?

What's extra complicated? It's not any more complicated than any other releases they are already working on which have platform differences. Usage of cross platform APIs makes it easier, which is exactly the point about using Vulkan rather than MS only DX12 perpetuated by Phil Spencer and Co.
 
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What's extra complicated?

In general, the more graphically challenging the game is, the more difficult it is to convert it to other platforms. The Linux player base might not be big enough to justify a Linux release. Or maybe it's because CDPR cannot guarantee the quality thereof because of a lack of knowledge or other unspecified reasons.

The usage of cross platform API's might make the process easier, but I would reckon it also causes optimization issues. It depends on whether or not CDPR sees Windows as a main platform, where DX12 is better. Also, like mentioned before, it might have to do with technical difficulties.
 
In general, the more graphically challenging the game is, the more difficult it is to convert it to other platforms.

That really depends on how good or bad the renderer design is. Well designed engines reduce this complexity, poorly designed ones require a lot of work to support another graphics backend. Today, these issues are simplified by availability of low level APIs on every possible platform. I.e. with good design, platform dependent layer in the engine can be way thinner than it was in the past. Therefore actual porting efforts are way smaller (and thus less expensive as well).

Though surely any such work requires expertise. But I expect CDPR to have professional enough developers to handle that. So the main level of complexity should be already handled pretty well, since they are releasing for PS which is not using DirectX but GNM.

Also, looks like major companies like AMD can even provide their experts to help gaming companies working on the Vulkan renderer, if they can't find such experts in house. I already posted such example above. It's quite feasible for CDPR to do so as well.

The usage of cross platform API's might make the process easier, but I would reckon it also causes optimization issues.

I'd say it prompts developers to work on optimization issues. I.e. it's a good thing. Cross platform development helps finding flaws in the engine which they otherwise wouldn't even realize exist.

depends on whether or not CDPR sees Windows as a main platform, where DX12 is better.

How is DX12 better? It doesn't offer anything Vulkan can't do, and there are no performance benefits in using it. Performance comes not from the API, but from the way engine is designed these days (i.e. proper multithreading).
 
Better performance. But you already made a case against that.

You can achieve better performance than DX11 using DX12. But not better than Vulkan, unless Vulkan driver itself for some reason has some serious flaws which isn't the case today. Vulkan drivers have progressed quite well since initial releases, and DX12 doesn't really offer any performance benefits in comparison with Vulkan today.
 
Well, Sard likes to paint a rosy picture of great communication story. I prefer a realistic view of it. Just compare the situation to companies which crowdfund games and their way of communication with the community.
 
Well, Sard likes to paint a rosy picture of great communication story. I prefer a realistic view of it. Just compare the situation to companies which crowdfund games and their way of communication with the community.
Yeah, I know. I've always aligned more closely with your point of views on these topics, but I can understand Sard's, too. It's just amusing to see you guys duke it out again.

Sard is right that CDPR communicates, but they don't communicate on specific topics like technical aspects of their games all that much anymore, if they ever did. He may have taken you a bit too literally, since you were hyperbolizing to some degree.

Oh, also, a lot of the things they do communicate about... its limited. They tell us a lot of awesome-sounding macro stuff, but not so much of the nitty gritty, which is what some of us really want to hear (We are, of course, in the minority). But that's unrelated to Linux/APi.

Why CDPR doesn't talk about tech-y stuff... I don't know. I gotta imagine that programmers and engine workers get a lot of enjoyment from geeking out about some of their work, so it's too bad they can't/won't do that with their fans. I'm sure they have their reasons, but still... sucks.
 
My PC is quite real, I buy parts and build it myself.

CPU: Ryzen 7 2700X.
GPU: Sapphire Pulse Radeon Vega 56 (AMD).
RAM: 32 GB.

Why should I bother with Windows? I have no interest in it.
 
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My PC is quite real, I buy parts and build it myself.

CPU: Ryzen 7 2700X.
GPU: Sapphire Pulse Radeon Vega 56 (AMD).
RAM: 32 GB.

Why should I bother with Windows? I have no interest in it.

Tell Apple to make PCs easier to port stuff onto. Not CDPRs fault for not easily being able to make a Linux version.
 
Well, a PC is a PC, regardless of its operating system. People like Linux for many reasons, but one of the main ones is the lack of telemetry, or really any of Microsoft's other nonsense.

I've wanted to make the switch for years, but I've been waiting for game parity, or at least as close as we can possible get. I have a Steam library that's way too big to be ditched.
 
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Some posts edited and deleted. We DO NOT do Platform Wars here. They are non-constructive and go nowhere. Also, please remember to be Polite and Kind and have Respect for others.
 
Tell Apple to make PCs easier to port stuff onto. Not CDPRs fault for not easily being able to make a Linux version.

Never used any of Apple stuff, and don't plan to. Apple have zero relevance to Linux porting.

As @Snowflakez said, PC is just a computer. It's not tied to the operating system. So don't think PC = Windows. It's plain wrong, though this false notion is perpetuated by some execs who announce "release for PC", while what they really mean is "release for Windows".
 
Never used any of Apple stuff, and don't plan to. Apple have zero relevance to Linux porting.

As @Snowflakez said, PC is just a computer. It's not tied to the operating system. So don't think PC = Windows. It's plain wrong, though this false notion is perpetuated by some execs who announce "release for PC", while what they really mean is "release for Windows".
I'm not here to crap on your OS of choice but to be fair and if we take steam hardware survey as a reference, only 1% of gamers use Lunix as their OS of choice. So PC kinda means Windows because it's the vast majority of systems used for gaming out there.
 
Regardless, PC means hardware, not Windows. It's improper to equate, same as it's improper to call diapers "pampers", photocopier a "xerox" and adhesive bandage a "bandaid" (not exact comparisons, but just demonstrates improper usage due to some widespread case).

Steam survey is really a poor indicator of Linux usage, since not only it's a survey (i.e. not really full stats), its methodology isn't public, so we can't know how reliable these stats are in comparison with full data. Many Linux users said they never got such survey to begin with.

Besides, Linux gaming is not limited to Steam. I'm not using Steam personally.
 
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Regardless, PC means hardware, not Windows. It's improper to equate, same as it's improper to call diapers "pampers", photocopier a "xerox" and adhesive bandage a "bandaid" (not exact comparisons, but just demonstrates improper usage due to some widespread case).

Steam survey is really a poor indicator of Linux usage, since not only it's a survey (i.e. not really full stats), its methodology isn't public, so we can't know how reliable these stats are in comparison with full data. Many Linux users said they never got such survey to begin with.

Besides, Linux gaming is not limited to Steam. I'm not using Steam personally.
Yeah, I wouldn't go by the Steam survey.

For all we know, there's not many Linux-based Steam users because there aren't many good Linux ports in the first place, so why bother?

It would be nice if we had better numbers, though. I wonder what developers use to determine whether or not a platform is viable to port to? I sincerely doubt they are using the Steam hardware survey for market research..
 
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It would be nice if we had better numbers, though. I wonder what developers use to determine whether or not a platform is viable to port to?

For starters, Steam actually have full data, same as GOG. I.e. they know exact numbers of sales per platform for cross platform games. Whether they can share those numbers with all developers - I'm not sure. Probably not without permission at least. Some developers published such stats themselves, and there is a lot of variation depending on the game. Some can be low indeed, but some can be a lot higher than 2% as well.

Other fully public stats we have are from Humble Bundle sales. And they are quite higher as well.
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Interesting article about using Vulkan for games development and dxvk for running DX11 games in Wine:

A Discussion on Native vs DXVK for Linux gaming
 
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For starters, Steam actually have full data, same as GOG. I.e. they know exact numbers of sales per platform for cross platform games. Whether they can share those numbers with all developers - I'm not sure. Probably not without permission at least. Some developers published such stats themselves, and there is a lot of variation depending on the game. Some can be low indeed, but some can be a lot higher than 2% as well.

Other fully public stats we have are from Humble Bundle sales. And they are quite higher as well.
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Interesting article about using Vulkan for games development and dxvk for running DX11 games in Wine:

A Discussion on Native vs DXVK for Linux gaming

The sales numbers are only relevant to CDPR, not us.
 
The sales numbers are only relevant to CDPR, not us.

According to CDPR themselves, sales of The Witcher 2 for Linux were good for example. And their cancellation of TW3 and abandoning Linux releases was never explained, so things aren't clear at all in that story. Something changed in their management though, that's quite obvious.
 
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