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Hey guys, Im a masters student working on a thesis to develop a list of guidelines for RPG game developers. Its purpose is to help game developers create better games by having a strong foundation. Check out this post if you're interested.

What makes RPGs good or bad?
 
any game that looks like this isn't worth a dollar soaked in urine:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cmK7XJ9h29A/TNhEz1l17ZI/AAAAAAAAAAM/UQvtVjotc5Y/s1600/Darksiders_10.jpg
 
So I've started playing Soul Reaver 2 and I can already tell it's going to be better than the first two. The amount of dialogue for one seems to have increased substantially and it's pretty well written. The lore is being explored (William the Just, Soul Reaver, Vorador, Janos Audron). Raziel narrating also increased, bringing back a nostalgic feeling with regards to Blood Omen and serving to explore his character more. In the first few minutes, I felt Raziel's anger at his Sarafan heritage being defamed more than I did in Soul Reaver 1. Moebius already intrigues me, esp since he serves the Elder God. Can't wait to see Kain.

Graphics are much better, the environments are more detailed and lively (rats and fish!), and the combat is much more fun though I can tell that the gameplay will be more about combat than exploration, when vice versa was true for the first Soul Reaver. But I don't mind, I'm finding the gameplay quite fun.
 
Corylea said:
Planescape: Torment ! Planescape: Torment ! You must play Planescape: Torment !

I read an article in PC Gamer magazine last year about Planescape: Torment (every month they talk about a great older game), and the article said, "Planescape: Torment is widely believed to have the best story ever in a video game."

So it's not just Volsung, Blothulfur, Dearg Ruadhri, Pangaea, and me who will tell you that Planescape: Torment has the best story ever. ;)

Heh, you wouldn't be the first to recommend Planescape: Torment to me. And yet I have never taken the time to play it, surprisingly...

But I'll see to it that I do, and the other games as well that Volsung and Prince recommended. ;)
 
We can have a synchronised Planescape: Torment play-through if anyone is interested. I've had it for a while, just didn't have time/will to play...
 
There's a lot of advice for new players about how to get the most out of your first run through Planescape: Torment in the Playing Classic RPG's thread. There's a lot of advice, walkthroughs, mods, and so on available for the game; one piece of advice that I found useful was the Planescape: Torment Beginner's Guide by Orion 79.

A list of must-have mods that fix bugs and help adapt the game to more modern monitors is available here, and there are more mods, plus walkthroughs, explanations of the various factions, hints, maps, screenshots, game editors, and all kinds of stuff at Sorcerer's Place.

Have a wonderful time!
 
Have a good time playing the best cRPG ever made! :)

I'd also join in, but I'm not sure I'll have the time to start a new playthrough and play regularly.
 

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I just started a playthrough the other day, but haven't had time to play much so far. Would join in, though I'm not sure what a synchronised playthrough would mean in real terms?

How I wish modern games had the quality of Planescape Torment....

Maybe I should go and play a little right now. Last time there was a small part of the world map that didn't get de-fogged, so maybe I missed out on something I'm not yet aware of :)
 
Chewin3 said:
Thank you for the links, Cory! They will certainly prove to be useful.
You're welcome!

And now for my own advice:

This game isn't like most RPG's. For the most part, if it's possible to talk instead of fight, talking will get you better results. Like Geralt in TW1, the player character (the Nameless One, often called "TNO" in fan-written hints and walkthroughs) has amnesia when he begins the game, and getting back memories of his life before the amnesia both gives you important insights into the plot AND gives you lots of experience points.

You gain back more memories the higher your Wisdom score is, and you have more and better dialogue choices the higher your Intelligence score is. Since gaining memories is part of the point of the game (and is also the key to gaining lots of experience), you want a lot of Wisdom -- starting the game with a WIS of 18 is not a bad idea. And since the dialogue is one of the biggest strengths of the game, it makes sense to have an INT score that allows you to see more of the stuff you're playing the game to see. So a starting INT score of 17 makes sense.

If you spend most of your discretionary stat points on Wisdom and Intelligence when you create your character, you'll be fairly weak in combat, so you'll need to not pick fights in the early part of the game, and you'll need to pick up more party members as soon as possible. You'll also want to save the game frequently. (Or, if you prefer, you can use a saved game editor to increase your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution stats to the point that combat is easier, which isn't that big of a deal since combat is so NOT the point of this game. You can find an editor at the Sorcerer's Place link I gave you earlier.)

Not only is talking to everyone else important, but so is talking to your party members; you'll need to speak to them several times throughout the game, pretty much after every major plot point or personal revelation. HOW to talk to your companions is not terribly obvious -- the game's controls are a bit strange -- but the manual explains how. Some players don't speak to their companions because they think they CAN'T, since how to do it is a bit obscure, and I don't want you guys to fall into that trap. For a lot of modern RPG's, you never need to consult the manual. This is an old-school RPG, though, so I recommend that you at least skim the manual before you begin the game.

Even silly-sounding simple quests can give you insight into the strange place where you are. So yes, when you're asked to find a freaking FORK, you should go find one. ;)

Although I enjoyed the game from the very beginning, I didn't think the game became truly breathtaking until after I'd gained access to the Clerk's Ward. If the game doesn't seem all that special during the first couple of hours, hang in there -- it gets better and better as time goes on. I think it has the very best ending, EVER, in a computer game. Not that you play it only for the ending. ;)

There's an awful lot packed into this game. There are walkthroughs if you get stuck. I think it helps to read a walkthrough when you're about to leave an area, so that you can see if there's anything you missed in that area. Reading it then keeps it from spoiling the game but makes sure you don't miss anything cool. A walkthrough I think especially well of is Montresor's online walkthrough; another useful one is the GameBanshee Walkthrough.

There are lots of people here who love this game, so feel free to post if you need help. There's also help at GOG's Planescape: Torment forum and at Sorcerer's Place Planescape: Torment forum.


I've been wanting to replay the game again, so maybe I'll join you.

Have fun!
 
So I finished Soul Reaver 2. Holy shit!

I don't think I fully grasp all of it yet.
So Moebius orchestrated all of this to get Janos killed, while Kain orchestrated everything to create two paradoxes (thus two timelines), while apparently this was all a trap set by something called the Hylden?

Well the story was great. Raziel is like a complete paradox in his own being. A champion of free will yet destined to become absorbed by the Reaver. Hated Kain for defaming his Sarafan corpse, only to see it was him who killed both himself and his brothers (for killing Janos, which was only possible thanks to his unaware wraith self), providing Kain with the corpses to revive. Gameplay wise the final confrontation with Raziel was horrible as it's impossible to lose, but the symbolism was great. Not only was it delicious and astute irony, it was also thematic. It showed Raziel renouncing his former self and his humanity, embracing his destiny as a vampire (and appreciating Kain's joke). Only to realize a few seconds later that his destiny is to be trapped in a sword. Poor Raziel :(

I liked the dialogue and chemistry between Kain and Raziel (they even share a few jokes!), though sometimes the faux-Shakespearean can get a bit excessive (I am thinking of the scene in William's chapel). I very much like how Raziel's view of Kain evolves, to the point where he is even defending his once hated enemy in one or two discussions. Though Kain was definitely the antagonist in Soul Reaver 1, I am not sure what to qualify him as in Soul Reaver 2. He does seem more benevolent but Kain is no less adept at manipulation than the others and I have no doubt he is still ambitious (he even says that the pillars belong to the vampires). Taht said, I liked his motivation. Kain is challenging history and fate in a magnificent time spanning gambit to fulfill his destiny as balance guardian and I'd like to think as emperor who simply doesn't want to rule a dying Nosgoth.

I am not exactly sure how the final paradox happened though. The Soul Reaver probably did not have the ability to steal souls at that point, so Raziel's soul being inside the blade (after the spectral reaver was absorbed) and outside being also absorbed, created a paradox. Why didn't the Reaver absorb Raziel in William's chapel? The only explanation I can think of is that this version of the Reaver was William's, which could not absorb souls at the time. But then why didn't it absorb its spectral self and then try to steal Raziel's soul? Confusing shit, I'd probably need to sit down and rethink the whole thing. But while I am sure that the whole 2 reavers create paradox thing was not really thought out in Blood Omen, it's still expertly crafted because IIRC in Blood Omen, you couldn't kill the nemesis without the reaver.

Things that I worry about. I hope the Elder God doesn't turn big bad evil. Its motivation of preserving the cycle of life and death, creation and destruction, is motivation enough and it made him sympathetic (even if it's likely that he's a parasitic being who draws on the wheel of fate). But when Nosgoth gets worse, he gets bigger and bigger and the demons who suspiciously sound like him, say mockingly "you think you can save Nosgoth?" Meh, I hope they have nothing to do with the Elder. I'd like him to be an antagonist, he can represent the tyranny of fate, time and mortality, or some creature that took on the mantle of enforcing that tyranny (it fits into the themes of the series). But please don't make him big bad evil.

Furthermore, I am not sure I like the implication that Kain was corrupted at birth by Nuprator's insanity. I can accept that his capacity of being the balance guardian was compromised and that in the eye of the pillar, he is corrupted. But I hope that it didn't affect his personality, motivation and desires at all. Same goes to Moebius and Mortanius. I guess they can keep it ambiguous and I'll believe my own interpretation.

All in all, I loved it, certainly better than the first two in terms of story. The gameplay was fun though at the end, I found myself avoiding most fights as it can get tedious. The puzzles were much better this time around, with the lights and elemental reavers. The game is very atmospheric, with the forges in particular being crafted beautifully. There was one forge where it is subtle implied that ancient vampires performed "human" sacrifice, or so I interpreted it. There is a lot of backtracking in that we are running around the same areas, which is problematic yes, but at the same time watching the same landscape change as we travel back and forth through time was fun to do. Perhaps a happy medium could have been found between a bigger world and chance to revisit some areas after time travel. The music was good enough, though nothing can challenge Ozar Midrashim. The game was short though, I think I finished it in 10 or so hours.

Well off to Blood Omen 2! Which I am assuming will be about Kain's memories after the 3rd paradox occurs.
 
I do favor complexity in games, and talking my way through situations is a lot more satisfying than simple fighting. Thanks for the tip! I'll max out my Wisdom and Intelligence, we'll see how that turns out.

And if you feel like joining, you should! The more the merrier ;)

EDIT: And speaking of PST. Fun read.
 
Er... ask Dona. Her idea.

If not simply here, posting each others progression from time to time, there are other ways. Skype, for example.
 
It kind of puts Biowares nonsensical plotting to shame, when the intricate tapestry of events in Soul Reaver unfold across millenia and yet still make sense and are foreshadowed.

The way I see it, the virgin Soul Reaver never before weilded by Raziel was slowly melding with him throughout the battles with his brothers, and while it avenged its maker and guardian Janos Audron with each of their deaths its blood thirst joined with the wraithblades hunger. Finally when Raziel had slain them all the sword decided that one last of its masters killers still stood, Raziel himself. The Reaver in Williams chapel already holds Raziels soul, and will until Kain breaks it upon him in the first Soul Reaver. Thus creating that distortion as Raziels soul, the Reaver on his arm and the broken sword interact.

It really is gloriously confusing.
 
Blothulfur said:
It kind of puts Biowares nonsensical plotting to shame, when the intricate tapestry of events in Soul Reaver unfold across millenia and yet still make sense and are foreshadowed.

The way I see it, the virgin Soul Reaver never before weilded by Raziel was slowly melding with him throughout the battles with his brothers, and while it avenged its maker and guardian Janos Audron with each of their deaths its blood thirst joined with the wraithblades hunger. Finally when Raziel had slain them all the sword decided that one last of its masters killers still stood, Raziel himself. The Reaver in Williams chapel already holds Raziels soul, and will until Kain breaks it upon him in the first Soul Reaver. Thus creating that distortion as Raziels soul, the Reaver on his arm and the broken sword interact.

It really is gloriously confusing.

Makes sense actually!
If William's reaver already had Raziel's soul, then it's probably Moebius who gave it to him as such. And since he was looking to create a paradox, he might have done so deliberately.

And now I remembered something. Janos Audron's heart, the heart of darkness, was used by Mortanius to transform Kain into a vampire. So could it be that Moebius plotted all of this to prevent Kain from ever becoming a vampire?

Damn Moebius is one heck of a chessmaster! So is Kain, who without Moebius' omniscience, can still challenge the Time Streamer himself.
 
Yeah Moebius has been stacking the deck since the beginning.

Moebius made sure that both Kain and William held different time periods of the Soul Reaver (both containing Raziel bound soul) so that events could change. Allowing the time streamer to ignite the purge of vampires that would leave Kain as the only remaining one when he made his decision at the pillars. Kain is using the blade that Raziel healed in Williams chapel just before the nobleman was born, and Ariel slain.
 
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