"Potions are 1.5 times more effective on this unit" might restrict design

[crazymmogamer]

I am not sure that i understand your example. Lets say i play frost, (you have a heavy potion build) take your units to 1. You use potion to buff them to 10 or so, thus making my weather card useless. Am I correct?

Example above ^^^^^

---------- Updated at 12:35 PM ----------

they nerfed Vesemir to 5 strength, like other two witchers, it is HUGE change, because now they all are very endangered due to equal value

Hmm not as much as before, since we cant have 3 scorches in our hand anymore. 5 STR isnt alot, so most of the cards will protect them anyway, if someone wont play them as their first move which wouldnt be super smart imo. -6Str thunder cards will destroy only one of them. Manticore venom wont scorch them, since its -4 str only and they dont have the same name, so it will work only on 1 of them.

Geralt is gold, so he is immune to potion (in general, I kno that gold status can be removed)

Agree. But maybe in future we will see more variations of gerlat cards or other witchers. Also no1 said that other geralt variations cant be weaker but silver.
Someone already posted interesting build which is focused on actually takeing in easy way a gold status from geralt and than using potions and multiuse that geralt with the help of medics.

On the one hand, they make Scorch much more unique due to silver status. It can be one Scorch card in deck now, it takes very important silver slot.

I'v made a heavy scorching deck yestarday and scorch was still very good fit in it.

 

[Tarathelion]

What ? How my buffs dont influence an oponent play when he will have for example deck focused 100% on wounding and destroying units but ill take that possibility by simply counter buffing my units in the middle of his combo ? Go and check MC's "lemme hear your war cry" deck and asnwer yourself how my potions/buffs will influence his playstyle.

So in a nutshell he has a deck that reduces your overall scores while your are improving it. You can do it just by throwing simple number cards without abiilities, there is not that much of a difference really. Why do it care if you have potions? how do i protect myself from wounding or potions? At the end of the day its just number card with very limited use in other ways

 

[Keymaker7]

Hmm not as much as before, since we cant have 3 scorches in our hand anymore. 5 STR isnt alot, so most of the cards will protect them anyway, if someone wont play them as their first move which wouldnt be super smart imo. -6Str thunder cards will destroy only one of them. Manticore venom wont scorch them, since its -4 str only and they dont have the same name, so it will work only on 1 of them.

It is all true. But you have to say that using half of the silver slots for witchers is serious thing. If you decide to do this, you need to know what are you doing and have plan how to proper used them (I thinking here about smart usage of potions - example). Nerfing Vesemir doesn't help in hiring witchers

 

[crazymmogamer]

You can do it just by throwing simple number cards without abiilities

Throwing them where ? into the weather ? They will end up being 1 man... Or maybe i want to keep my resilient units on the battlefield?
Well this is going nowhere. If they dont make a sense for you than dont take them into your deck, simple as that. And dont worry if i have some in my builds (which i will alot).

---------- Updated at 12:49 PM ----------

It is all true. But you have to say that using half of the silver slots for witchers is serious thing. If you decide to do this, you need to know what are you doing and have plan how to proper used them (I thinking here about smart usage of potions - example). Nerfing Vesemir doesn't help in hiring witchers

Agree. I havent worked on a deck which would utilize witchers in a optimal way yet. But i think there could be some good ways to make them worth takeing into the deck.

 

[Tarathelion]

Throwing them where ? into the weather ? They will end up being 1 man... Well this is going nowhere. If they dont make a sense for you than dont take them into your deck, simple as that. And dont worry if i have some in my builds (which i will alot).

Oh, I don't worry about you having them in your deck, thats is unfortunately the point

To answer your question, in that example. If you have a 10 strength unit on melee row and i play weather reducing your unit to 1, it absolutely does not matter to me if you potion it up to 10 or if you play another card on lets say range row with 9 strength on it. You ability to use potion in that scenario does not screw me over one bit as you are using a card that means +10 points, There is no difference if its a unit on another row or potion on melee . Sure you can make an argument that potions are more flexible and thus better but that does not influence the way i play. I won't change my tactic because you may have potion or not like i had to with a threat of scorch which forced me to protect myself.

Again, I am not opposed to potions or wounding in theory but the way they are implemented now is boring and lacks tactical depth(again i am not saying they can't be useful in some situations)

 

[crazymmogamer]

To answer your question, in that example. If you have a 10 strength unit on melee row and i play weather reducing your unit to 1, it absolutely does not matter to me if you potion it up to 10 or if you play another card on lets say range row with 9 strength on it. You ability to use potion in that scenario does not screw me over one bit as you are using a card that means +10 points

It will since you wouldnt be able to remove all my units from that weathered row with 1 freaking zoltans token, or you wont be able to remove all my mahakan guards with your Imlerith. And if ill have 3-4 cards on the weathered row than it will be hard to cepmensate them with 1 7-8-9 str unit on other row, dont you think ?
Also for me resilient units are worth much more than a single card on other row (which can be weathered also, especialy now with multiple weather effects on a single card).

Again, I am not opposed to potions or wounding in theory but the way they are implemented now is boring and lacks tactical depth(again i am not saying they can't be useful in some situations)

You havent even played a single match and you can already tell that it lacks tactical depth?

You know what lacks tactical depth ? Old scorchinf mechanics, where you could tell in 95% of cases which unit gonna be scorched when your oponent had scorch on his hand. That was lack of tactical depth. And now that single scorch gonna have even more impact than before on playing with other players mind. Why ? Because as you said some players will just "throw their cards whitout worring about anything" and than they gonna be punching their monitors, when someone will actually put a scorch into the deck and use it at the end of a round.

 

[Tarathelion]

It will since you wouldnt be able to remove all my units from that weathered row with 1 freaking zoltans token, or you wont be able to remove all my mahakan guards with your Imlerith. And if ill have 3-4 cards on the weathered row than it will be hard to cepmensate them with 1 7-8-9 str unit on other row, dont you think ?
Also for me resilient units are worth much more than a single card on other row (which can be weathered also, especialy now with multiple weather effects on a single card).
.

Use clear weather instead, much better option against multiple units anyway

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You havent even played a single match and you can already tell that it lacks tactical depth?

You know what lacks tactical depth ? Old scorchinf mechanics, where you could tell in 95% of cases which unit gonna be scorched when your oponent had scorch on his hand. That was lack of tactical depth. And now that single scorch gonna have even more impact than before on playing with other players mind. Why ? Because as you said some players will just "throw their cards whitout worring about anything" and than they gonna be punching their monitors, when someone will actually put a scorch into the deck and use it at the end of a round.

I disagree, the persistent threat of scorch has affected the way you play, making certain cards a lot more effective. It makes wounding and potion mechanic better. You you had to protect yourself from scorch and epidemic. You couldn't just play your strongest cards without having possibility of scorch in mind. Now that impact of scorch is reduced. A giant toad card was fantastic protection card for example. Potion would be terrific way of protecting from scorch or exposing opponents to epidemic.. Nerfing scorch does not help it mitigates the tactical play of potions. Remember, there was not a single complain on this forum about scorch in KTS. Was that a problem, I don't think so.

What i would like to see, is to have buff/debuffs stay on bourd as long as buffer/debuffer is there aswell. THat change would actually make wounding and potioning much more interesting because you could target specific characters (now it does not matter as much witch one you wound, potion up) - kill dandelion, stopping buffs, kill natalis stopping encurage buff. Alternatively protect dandelion with potion etc. Much more interesting plays, at least to me.

As i said i don't mind this mechanic as long as they are interesting. Right now they are not. Hopefully i will change my mind.

 

[crazymmogamer]

Use clear weather instead, much better option against multiple units anyway

You got 3 clear weathers, even if you will take all 3 the chance to get em all in a match is very low. And even if you will be lucky enaugh, those 3 clear weather wont be enaugh against some weather heavy decks which will be able to pull 5+ weather effects per match. With buffing abilites such as potions you actually can defend yourself against that kind of decks.

We are going by the same stuff over and over again. Which is boring already.

As i said i don't mind this mechanic as long as they are interesting. Right now they are not. Hopefully i will change my mind.

If i'm finding something not interesting i'm simply not playing it. Or if i'm finding some specific thing in a game not interesting than i simply dont use it.

 

[Yourfacetm]

On topic: I don't think potions are broken at the moment.

Why I'm really here: When I first saw that scorch was essentially nerfed I had a gut reaction of being disappointed. Playing around multiple scorches does add complexity to the game. Without the fear of scorch, as in after it has been played, you can freely play your strongest units without fear. Scorch kept people and decks humble. I just watched a video where an opponent had four 7 strength units on the board with no protection. Scorch not being there to punish these plays reduces the skill gap tremendously.

Without scorches, weather decks are hands down the best decks to combat high strength strategies. In other words, if you aren't running a weather deck and you cant use 2-3 scorches you will have a hard time facing a lot of strategies.

Ill wait until after the beta to form a stronger opinion, this is just how I feel at the moment.

 

[crazymmogamer]

Without scorches, weather decks are hands down the best decks to combat high strength strategies. In other words, if you aren't running a weather deck and you cant use 2-3 scorches you will have a hard time facing a lot of strategies.

Thats why buffing cards such as potions are super important to be in game, so you have a chance to counter react all those weather heavy decks. Remove potions from current build, and we gonna see Gwent: the monsters card game.

 

[Tarathelion]

If i'm finding something not interesting i'm simply not playing it. Or if i'm finding some specific thing in a game not interesting than i simply dont use it.

Thank you for that, great advice. I will now eat everything like a pelican

 

[crazymmogamer]

Thank you for that, great advice. I will now eat everything like a pelican

Your welcome. I'm not your mother, i dont care if you will eat everything or leave half on your plate.

 

[Yourfacetm]

Thats why buffing cards such as potions are super important to be in game, so you have a chance to counter react all those weather heavy decks. Remove potions from current build, and we gonna see Gwent: the monsters card game.

I agree with that statement and that is why I said I don't see a problem with potions.

I understand the logic of using potions to help counter weather decks is great. What I am talking about is when non weather decks face decks that rely on buffing and high strength strategies. Without scorch, two of these decks will basically play their cards and see who opened with the highest strength combo. There is almost no counter play to that, its like a basic game of war with regular cards where each player flips a card and the highest value card wins.

Scorch is what will make those games skillful. It wont just be who drew higher strength cards or combos, it will be who plays them in the best way.

 

[Mythic_Pilot]

Scorch is still there and more than 1 card especially if you're playing Scoiatael or NR you can reuse scorches easily