Silent or Voiced Protagonist?

[gregski]

That means you'd have to find a voice actor that would be able to play ALL the roles and an extremely competent voice director that would tell him what role he's supposed to play at any given moment. Not to mention, there's still the challenge of making sure that it doesn't seem unnatural when your character suddenly starts to speak differently simply because the player shaped him towards a class.

Unless you mean that your character should ALWAYS speak the same way regardless of what class you eventually choose. That would be even worse however as it would devoid him of any personality. The VA would have to play in a very neutral way and the dialogue writers would have to create very generic dialogues. And even then, some of those dialogues would probably sound wooden and not very fitting considering the kind of character you created. I can't imagine making a single VO that would fit a rockerboy, a corp, a netrunner and a solo all at the same time and still feel genuine and interesting.

I can't see the connection between class and VO. Why should someone's voice change depending on which CLASS he becomes? Why is class so important for VOs here?

I checked it with myself and there was a certain point in my life that my speech has been established for good. The tone, the volume, the accent - they stay the same. I didn't change the way I talk and I already worked in a few places in a few different roles. Why would the VO of my character change, then?

What could be different depending on class are dialogues and dialogue options - for example, Netrunners and Cops each use different slang or approach situations using different attributes (Cop using Authority, for example). But they can be delivered by the same voice actor (he/she will have just more lines to record).

 

[username_3644576]

Apparently you haven't played very many PnP RPGs then. If you don't know why a warrior should speak differently than a mage, why an elf should should speak differently than a dwarf or why a netrunner should speak differently than a cop, I'm afraid I can't explain it to you.

They just have to speak diffrently depending on who they are. Your way of speaking is set now, but that's because you have chosen who you are. If something so dramatic happened in your life that it would change it completely (say, you became a proffessional soldier or a rock star), I'm certain it would change.

Cyberpunk is all about the style. It's all about people whose social status, goals, methods and personal stories vary dramatically based on what they're doing in life. You can't just discard it and have everyone speak the same way. In the end of the day, if rockerboys all sound like rockerboys, but not the rockerboy protagonist, you won't really feel like you're playing a rockerboy. You won't fit in.

 

[Garrison72]

One more thing came to my mind...cutscenes.

I expect them to be present in CP2077 as CDPR used them extensively in their last game as a medium of telling the story. If that's going to be the case with CP2077(and I bet it will, they won't waste the capabilities of the RED Engine) the protagonist will have to be voiced.

Good point. Almost makes this topic a foregone conclusion.

I personally stand firm on the issue. If it's TP it's gotta be voiced. In FP I'm ok with a silent protagonist, but I'd still prefer voiced in a conversation cutscene ala Deus Ex. The point Sirnaq brings up about getting the same Shepard voice for each class, that never really bothered me.

 

[Yngh]

They just have to speak diffrently depending on who they are.

That's totally unrealistic. That would mean that they would need to hire several actors just to do the recordings for the protagonist. In case of a silent protagonist it would be more feasible to change many parts of the text depending on class, but it is still rarely the case in cRPGs.

 

[wisdom000]

If they use cutsenes, they should really just use the in game graphics, not throw in some cgi bullshit that makes you suddenly realize you are playing a game. I have really gotten to the point where I hate that...

 

[gregski]

Apparently you haven't played very many PnP RPGs then. If you don't know why a warrior should speak differently than a mage, why an elf should should speak differently than a dwarf or why a netrunner should speak differently than a cop, I'm afraid I can't explain it to you.

They just have to speak diffrently depending on who they are. Your way of speaking is set now, but that's because you have chosen who you are. If something so dramatic happened in your life that it would change it completely (say, you became a proffessional soldier or a rock star), I'm certain it would change.

Cyberpunk is all about the style. It's all about people whose social status, goals, methods and personal stories vary dramatically based on what they're doing in life. You can't just discard it and have everyone speak the same way. In the end of the day, if rockerboys all sound like rockerboys, but not the rockerboy protagonist, you won't really feel like you're playing a rockerboy. You won't fit in.

I played Warhammer, CP2020, Call of Cthulhu, Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: Apocalypse. I don't know how is it relevant to discussion about VOs, though.

Your post has many assumptions about something I meant which are false. And because you think "they HAVE TO speak differently" doesn't mean it's some sort of revelation everyone has to agree with.

We were talking about classes affecting character's way of speaking, but all of a sudden you compare elves and dwarves, which I kindly remind you are RACES, not CLASSES. And they are supposed to speak differently based on what race not class they are, which kinda proves my point. A mage elf will speak differently than a warrior dwarf but not because they differ in classes but because they are of different race and origin. That's what affects the difference in this case.

I didn't hear about too many (if at all) cases of people changing voices because something dramatic in their lives happened. Any data to back that claim up? Also, we're not talking about some dramatic circuimstances, we're talking about a guy/girl basically choosing his job/life path. If I am who I am, should I switch the way I talk if I stop working in marketing and start working in HR department? I must have been missing something throughout my whole professional life, then.

 

[wisdom000]

That's totally unrealistic. That would mean that they would need to hire several actors just to do the recordings for the protagonist. In case of a silent protagonist it would be more feasible to change many parts of the text depending on class, but it is still rarely the case in cRPGs.

This.... I have seenit done, Saints row had this feature... several different actors, several different voices for the protagonist...

But 1, it ate up a ton of resource space, and 2, it NEVER satisfies everyone... especially since it always boils donw to the real difference in voices being whatever ridiculous stereotype you hate the least.

In Saints Row 2 I played the spanish male voice, because he was the only one who sounded like he could read.

Voiceless is just better all around for creating your own character...

If their are voices, then as I said, it should just be 1 male, 1 female, neither with discernible accent.

 

[Yngh]

Voiceless is just better all around for creating your own character...

If their are voices, then as I said, it should just be 1 male, 1 female, neither with discernible accent.

Exactly.

I think that many users need to be brought down to earth, because CDP RED is a medium-sized studio with limited resources. I'm sure that they will try to give us a great RPG, but no matter what you think, this will not be the game to end all games. Don't allow the hype to consume you, as it's a first step on a road to disappointment.

 

[username_3644576]

I didn't hear about too many (if at all) cases of people changing voices because something dramatic in their lives happened. Any data to back that claim up? Also, we're not talking about some dramatic circuimstances, we're talking about a guy/girl basically choosing his job/life path. If I am who I am, should I switch the way I talk if I stop working in marketing and start working in HR department? I must have been missing something throughout my whole professional life, then.

Soo, you're suggesting that soldiers speak the same way lawyers do? That a doctor will speak the same way a construction worker will? Or maybe you've never noticed the difference between the way artists speak compared to bussinespeople?

No sir, the words they use, their accent, the sophistication of sentences, the social competence, all these things will be very different. When you're facing an NPC of a certain background (or a real life person for that matter), you can usually tell what kind of person he is right after he opens his mouth. If the protagonist is meant to be someone outspoken (say, a media reporter or a corporate) but his voiceovers are kinda bland because the actor had to consider that he might be playing a brute force-type character or a tech-junkie whose social skills leave somewhat to be desired, the end result is unlikely to be satsfying.

 

[wisdom000]

I didn't hear about too many (if at all) cases of people changing voices because something dramatic in their lives happened. Any data to back that claim up? .

Well.... there is always the example of Eddie Murphy before Disney, and after Disney

But yeah, I argee with you...

 

[gregski]

Soo, you're suggesting that soldiers speak the same way lawyers do? That a doctor will speak the same way a construction worker will? Or maybe you've never noticed the difference between the way artists speak compared to bussinespeople?

No sir, the words they use, their accent, the sophistication of sentences, the social competence, all these things will be very different. When you're facing an NPC of a certain background (or a real life person for that matter), you can usually tell what kind of person he is right after he opens his mouth. If the protagonist is meant to be someone outspoken (say, a media reporter or a corporate) but his voiceovers are kinda bland because the actor had to consider that he might be playing a brute-type force character or a tech-junkie whose social skills leave somewhat to be desired, the end result is unlikely to be satsfying.

The result will never be satisfying, no matter which option CDPR chooses.

For me, if someone is outspoken - he seems to have natural capacity towards being a media person, so eventually he becomes a media person and doesn't have to change anything. It's a natural choice for him. For you it's the other way round, if someone chooses to be a media person he should speak or change his way of speaking accordingly. But hey, maybe he should have become an accountant, where you don't have to be outspoken?

And I know construction workers that speak like lawyers and another way round. So to me it's all not that simple, I see more nuances to character's personality than just a straight correlation between his role/class and the way they speak. The latter is influenced by many, many different things, too many to consider a role/class to be the main and decisive factor.

Also, what Yngh said.

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Silent protagonist. I wouldn't want a predefined feeling for a creatable character.

 

[beanstalker]

Let's consider for a second how this has been handled in other games, and how that has affected the end result. Because they have been made by the same studio, a good comparison imo would be Dragon Age: Origins (which has a silent protagonist) vs. the Mass Effect series (where Shepard had quite a bit to say).

For starters, note how Shep only has 2 voices, one for each gender, which undoubtedly reflects a trade-off between quantity and quality. Now, if big-ass studio like Bioware doesn't have the resources to have more *good* voices , then CD Projekt probably doesn't either - unless the protagonist doesn't have a lot of spoken lines, but if the WItcher series is any indication, he will.
Also note that in Mass Effect, while Shep may have different specializations and fighting styles, professionally he is one thing, and one thing only: A soldier, an officer specifically, and this reflects in the voice-work. If there had been other possible backgrounds, I don't think the 2-voice solution would have worked as well.

Looking at Dragon Age, the first thing we notice is that the characters background can be much more varied. Sure, Shep has stuff like the "colonist" or "spacer" history, but in DA:O we actually get to play part of that history. The classes are more different as well: The protagonist (who also doesn't have part of his name defined) can be a bookish mage or a courtly knight. There is little doubt that being silent makes him more bland and boring, but in the context of the game, the decision makes sense.

Conclusion: If the backgrounds and "classes" of the protagonist in CP2077 will be as we think they will, then a silent protagonist is probably the better choice - or rather the lesser evil, because you'd have to spend the entire voice-over budget on one character to do it right.

 

[barbaric]

FP games and MMO's are entirely different.

Take Deus Ex and Borderlands 2 as very good examples of a FP character in a story voiced well...even to the point of having multiple voices for four different characters.

For MMOs with an open world, it's much more difficult because you would have to have stock responses for every class / gender responding different ways at plot points. For instance, let's just assume that there are four different races and four different classes. That's 16 different voice actors for each gender, so 32 different voice actors with an enitre DVD's worth of responses for plot points in just a few jobs/quests/missions (however you want to put it).

I would much prefer having great NPC voices throughout the game and a depth of responses and comments for each NPC. I can't tell you how much I want to go back to Sanctuary and poke Marcus' eyes out with claptraps arm every time he says "If you shop anywhere else, I'll have you killed."

So, silent protagonist with multiple choices for interaction ala Fallout 3 and New Vegas, great character NPC voices with a wide variety of interaction so as not to lose immersion (because we're going to be visiting the same clients, fixers and corps for jobs), and for those cut scenes (if there are any in an open world MMO)...more of the same.

 

[username_3644576]

The result will never be satisfying, no matter which option CDPR chooses.

For me, if someone is outspoken - he seems to have natural capacity towards being a media person, so eventually he becomes a media person and doesn't have to change anything. It's a natural choice for him. For you it's the other way round, if someone chooses to be a media person he should speak or change his way of speaking accordingly. But hey, maybe he should have become an accountant, where you don't have to be outspoken?

And I know construction workers that speak like lawyers and another way round. So to me it's all not that simple, I see more nuances to character's personality than just a straight correlation between his role/class and the way they speak. The latter is influenced by many, many different things, too many to consider a role/class to be the main and decisive factor.

Also, what Yngh said.

I'm quite certain it works both ways. Natural tendency to be outspoken can result in career in media, but also simply hanging around outspoken people (such in media) is likely to result in you developing social skills. It's difficult to become another JFK if you're surrounded by construction workers (no offense to the latter).
Still, it does not matter whether, say, soldiers speak the way they do because of their training and experience or they chose the soldier's carreer because they were like that before. What matters is that if a soldier doesn't sound like a soldier, he's not very believable.

I'm unsure about how much VOs cost compared to the general budget of the project, so I can't comment on that argument. Given how many languages got full voice work for both TW and TW2, I don't think it's terribly expensive, since those games were low-cost by industry standards.

If they choose to go with generic voice acting that's meant to represent any class of character because they can't afford a more diverse, custom-crafted approach, I'm fine with that. But I don't want it to be a decision they WANT to make only the one they HAVE to. I want Dirty Harry style for a cop and Gordon Gekko for a corporate If they can't do it - too bad. But I disagree with the notion that they shouldn't even try.

 

[wisdom000]

Let's consider for a second how this has been handled in other games, and how that has affected the end result. Because they have been made by the same studio, a good comparison imo would be Dragon Age: Origins (which has a silent protagonist) vs. the Mass Effect series (where Shepard had quite a bit to say).

For starters, note how Shep only has 2 voices, one for each gender, which undoubtedly reflects a trade-off between quantity and quality. Now, if big-ass studio like Bioware doesn't have the resources to have more *good* voices , then CD Projekt probably doesn't either - unless the protagonist doesn't have a lot of spoken lines, but if the WItcher series is any indication, he will.
Also note that in Mass Effect, while Shep may have different specializations and fighting styles, professionally he is one thing, and one thing only: A soldier, an officer specifically, and this reflects in the voice-work. If there had been other possible backgrounds, I don't think the 2-voice solution would have worked as well.

Looking at Dragon Age, the first thing we notice is that the characters background can be much more varied. Sure, Shep has stuff like the "colonist" or "spacer" history, but in DA:O we actually get to play part of that history. The classes are more different as well: The protagonist (who also doesn't have part of his name defined) can be a bookish mage or a courtly knight. There is little doubt that being silent makes him more bland and boring, but in the context of the game, the decision makes sense.

Conclusion: If the backgrounds and "classes" of the protagonist in CP2077 will be as we think they will, then a silent protagonist is probably the better choice - or rather the lesser evil, because you'd have to spend the entire voice-over budget on one character to do it right.

Well said...

And really, I don't want to play a character who rambles on incessantly. I don't want my character to make bullshit speeches, or go on rants... rants are for the crazy dude on teh corner holding up the "ALIEN LOVE GARDENERS STOLE MY BABY!" sign...

 

[Captain_Crash]

@Sardukhar

@Captain Crash

Quality and quantity are not mutually exclusive some people might consider quantity to be quality. Example let’s take FNV my first run through I went right after benny and met veronica right away so my dialogue was limited to how I responded to her and her questions. On my second run through the game I knew where the brotherhood of steel was so I made a beeline for them and joined them now when I met up with veronica I unlock new content saying I like the BOS. Quality through quantity

Yeah I also found it really cool in Fallout. However a couple of extra lines here and there saying things you done to me isn't worth it for the quality of a voiced protagonist. It adds so much more to the gaming experience. So yes you can have quality through quantity but it works the other way as well.

Don't get me wrong, those little things are awesome and really do add. To me the odd extra dialogue here and there isn't worth the sacrifice though. Silent protagonists really hamper my immersion as it feels like there is no real conversation, its just the NPC talking constantly to you.

 

[Sardukhar]

Ahh..in a non-infinite resource based system, excellence or superiority, (quality) and quantity - amount of time spent on one vs resources for the other - typically run perpendicular to each other.

What this means is that given non-infinite resources and time, you must have limits on both these values. Once you impose these limits - or have them imposed, because this is the Real World - it's trade-off time.

It's great you had fun with the BoS, but that doesn't really change anything. The reason you couldn't have a sit-down chat with the Elders there about life, the universe and why Sard is such an arrogant dipwad is because Obsidian had to chop the Quality/Superiority of that interaction in favour of Quality somewhere else. So they had to spread the Quantity of their resources around in order to hit a certain Quality where they wanted it.

That's true even in PnP. If you try to have a chat with an NPC about their parents, their career, why they live where they do, etc, - in other words, experiencing a great spike in the excellence of your inter-reaction with that NPC - your game play will suffer in other areas, because their isn't sufficient amounts of the Quantity of time.

Pretty sure there is a formula for this - too lazy to find it right now.

When we use the word Quality, we typically mean the superiority or excellence of a thing, not the distinguishing characteristic, to be clear. Since Quantity is, actually a quality of a thing. Heh.

 

[nukeheal]

Not sure why discussion is still going on if we all know both CDPR games will end up being fully dubbed. Offline MMORPG's like Skyrim or Fallout is a one thing. A story driven game is another.

 

[Sardukhar]

Not sure why discussion is still going on if we all know both CDPR games will end up being fully dubbed. Offline MMORPG's like Skyrim or Fallout is a one thing. A story driven game is another.

And CP2077 will be which again?