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Some basic rules that CDPR should follow before any balancing update

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#1
Some basic rules that CDPR should follow before any balancing update

Hello fellow gwent players,

I have already posted this topic on reddit, but I would be happy to also discuss about it here.

Since the roadmap update, we know that there will be one balancing patch in May, and that it is supposed to be the only one, until october-november.

Therefore, this update will be decisive for the 6 months to come.

Thanks to meta reports, and the stability of the meta since nearly 3 months, we may easily know who are Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 Leaders/archetypes currently.

This is how I would classify them :
  • With their 51%+ Win Rates, Brouver, Henselt, Crach and Harald are clearly Tier 1 Leaders.
  • With around 48-50 % Win Rates, Jan Calveit, Arachas Queen, Dagon, Bran and Emhyr (handbuff) are Tier 2 Leaders.
  • Anyone else is a Tier 3 Leader.
This classification is not perfect but it gives a global idea of the situation.

Obviously, the perfect balance would be to have a 50% W/R with every leader, even if, of course, this is nearly impossible.

But to simplify, it means that Tier 1 Leaders/archetypes need a nerf, Tier 2 should remain unchanged and Tier 3 need a buff. Why am I stating such obvious rules ? For the simple reason that many players suggestions actually don't seem to care about balance. I don't want to sound harsh, but I have the feeling that a certain number of players just want to get rid of any card that is an annoyance for them.

I perfectly agree that some changes are needed. For example, Brouver must be reworked, so that he won't be able to use his mad Cleaver/Yaevinn combo anymore. Moreover, I accept the fact that wardancers need a nerf as well (I must specify that I'm playing a Francesca swap/swarm deck). But I am also convinced that wardancers won't be simply nerfed, they will be killed, like Iorveth:meditation or enforcers.

With all these predictable nerfs targeting Scoia'tael, you might think that players would be satisfied. But still, some players ask for a nerf for half elf hunters as well. It is a fact that they are really good. But nerf them, and you will just weaken an already weak archetype.

Without his Cleaver combo, Brouver W/R should be on par with current Francesca one, ie : 45-47%. Without wardancers, this W/R should fall even more. At this point, Scoia'tael won't need an additionnal nerf, but on the contrary a real buff.

Of course, ST is not the only example. Many players also ask for a nerf for Viper Witchers. I don't like them either and I consider them broken. But they must be nerfed with caution, because without them, Alchemy archetype will lose a lot of effectiveness.

I could give a lot more examples, like Imlerith:Sabbath (a broken card in a weak deck), but I think you get the point.

I'm not saying that a broken card should not be nerfed just because it belongs to a weak deck. But such a nerf has to be accompanied with the boost of other cards from this deck, in order to counterbalance.

Incidently, I hope that CDPR won't listen to the players who demand the disapperance of nearly any form of removal, because this is huge factor of balance and interactivity. Moreover, right now, there is no Tier 1 removal deck.

Once again, these rules may seem obvious, but even CDPR does'nt appear to always follow them.

Thanks for reading.
 

jgolden234

Junior Member
#2
I agree. Scoi'tael sees a lot of complaints, but on the specific brouver deck is top tier. I love scoi'tael and would like to seem them be more competitive. Seems to me skellige is the faction that needs a little debuffing (not even nerfing, just give some more cards the doomed tag or something). I get bored after I play great swords or bears 10 times in a row....
 

Void_Singer

Junior Member
#3
I wholeheartedly agree with the premise.

... but I found calling alchemy an archetype amusing... it's really not IMO, just a single card pushed to an extreme... at best you could say it has 2 golds and 2 bronzes and both golds are Neutrals... everything else is just filler. I'd consider NG handbuff in the same boat since it's really just "how do I maximize spotters". soldier spam, copy/theft, spies, reveal... those are archetypes, with a full slew of supporting cards
 

Bleach25

Junior Member
#4
If I have to be honest I'd rather see Elf swarm "archetype" die together with Bears and NG Handbuff. I'm saying it because it's rather weak thematically, not only compared to the other Scoia'tael archetypes, but also to the other swarming decks. Substantially, it's just throwing on the boards 12 points in as many bodies as possibile and then buffing them. Now I'm not saying that new archetypes shouldn't exist, however I prefer to see Handbuff and movement buffed. Hell, even Spella'tael as annoying as it already is.
 

ZenaRose

Banned
#6
Just rework Wardancers and forbid Brouver to pull a spy and ST will be ok.
Also seven 5-deal-13 guys should be nerfed.
 
#7
Void Singer : You seem to forget that Alchemy has one of the best Silver of the game... Cadaverine. No no, I'm not trolling.....

More seriously I agree with you, Alchemy is an embryo of archetype. CDPR should nerf Viper Witchers and at the same time, add some fresh alchemy cards.


Bleach : I have already explained in the topic "Should Brouver be changed" that there are a lot of misunderstandings about the swarm/swap deck.

For sure, spamming points brainlessly is an option. But this is a really bad one.
This strategy may allow you to reach rank 21 with Brouver, but it must be nearly impossible with Francesca.

If you don't include several removals in your deck, you are doomed against Greatsword or Henselt.

If you "vomit" all your elves in Round 1, then you will have nothing left for round 3.
But if you choose playing a long Round 3, you are at risk against Greatsword, Henselt, Axemen... ; even Dagon may be dangerous.

Moreover, a lot of cards can brick.

So, everything is about balance in this deck. You must know when to "vomit" elves and when to pass.

But to be honest, if the death of Swarm/swap deck is accompanied with the resurrection of Move deck, I would be more than happy.

All I ask for is a viable archetype for ST.


Thunderscap : thanks.
 

Void_Singer

Junior Member
#8
Roi_Barbichette;n10834361 said:
Void Singer : You seem to forget that Alchemy has one of the best Silver of the game... Cadaverine. No no, I'm not trolling.....[..]
fair enough. it is faction specific, and not generic to all factions like runestone
 

NomanPeopled

Junior Member
#9
Certainly there are some leaders that have proven more consistently powerful than others (for reasons that do warrant a look) but any changes have to be made in light of whatever new cards coexist with them, not (or at least not only) past metagames.
Harald goes down if Axemen do, just to pick an obvious example. (Or he might be invaluable if the post-rejiggering meta has a ton of small engine units. Who knows.)

I'd change all tutor leaders (with the possible exception of Francesca) though. They can make for repetitive gameplay and exacerbate the situation whenever a problematic tutorable cards is released.