[Spoiler Alert] About the endings

[The_Blacks]

To me too. It's called "Real life". Why would I PAY to experience what is actually Real Life?

I can only speak for myself, but I like best the sort of entertainment that doesn't sugarcoat reality. I take fictional stories more seriously if they have strokes of the real world. And tragedies always make far better entertainment anyway. Just like the Norse/Olympian Gods, I enjoy watching the heroes' struggle and end badly. That's what makes them heroes in the first place.

 

[Bearded_Geek]

I can only speak for myself, but I like best the sort of entertainment that doesn't sugarcoat reality. I take fictional stories more seriously if they have strokes of the real world. And tragedies always make far better entertainment anyway. Just like the Norse/Olympian Gods, I enjoy watching the heroes' struggle and end badly. That's what makes them heroes in the first place.

I get that, but I don't need that. I don't want that. I want what the Cyberpunk reddit spits on and errandously call "power fantasy", aka an escape from what we have in real life:

• Within 20 years millions of people will die or have to become refugees because of climate change that is now unstoppable? Check
• (The Water Wars will be brutal as frakk)? Check
• Megacorporations that refuse workers rights while their owners go to space? Check
• Cybernetics and medicines that could help millions but are too expensive for anyone not privileged to afford? Check
• Oversexualizaton of everything? Check
• Militarized police? Check
• EDIT: And scariest of all; we are in the middle of a mass extinction nobody talks about. In the last 50 years 70% of all species on earth have died out. Just the small ones for now, so we don't care.

Basically Cyberpunk isn't futuristic anymore, it's retrofuturistic just like Fallout but instead of being "retrofuturistic from the 50s" it's "Retrotufuristic from the 80s".
I want to escape from reality, not watch the news. Having no agency while reality sucks? That's Real Life.

(Also tragedies are not entertaining. Period).

 

[LeKill3rFou]

I am not saying people are wrong, I just don't understand people who like nihilistic or depressing things. I am serious btw, I literally cannot wrap my head around it. I have read that some people don't get the same hormonal reactions to horror as most people do, and i know I am one of them. I don't dislike horror movies, I just don't get any positive feedback from them so at best they're just pointless and at worst messy and disgusting. Same with rollercoastes btw, I can't get any positive feedback from riding them although I don't get scared either.
Maybe this is the same thing? I lack the hormone creation gene for "sad stuff" so it all seems pointless?

Honeslty, it's all matter of tastes I guess. For example maybe after experiencing a "sad" ending in a game/movie, you can realize how great/happy your life is (so it remain "positive").
But it's like any "taste", hard to say... Why I prefer black chocolate to white one ? I just prefer black chocolate...
After, the game is not a full package of "sadness"... There are bunch of awesome/happy/great moments, maybe more than sad ones

Spoiler: Just few ones

With A Little Help From My Friends
Following The River
Pyramid Song
Boat Drink

But I'm aware that a "dying character" is just a no go for some players... (for me, not worse than Alduin who is about destroying the world or Reapers who are about destroying all life in the Galaxy... Urgence still urgence, no matter and studios use that to "push" player to move on in the game).
It's like bugs, bugs never bother me as long as the game is good. For others, it's just impossible to ignore.

Edit : So to take your example of horror film, Cyberpunk (from Mike P.) with an happy ending in which the hero save the world and everyone is happy, would be like an Alien movie that would not be (a bit) scary... odd

 

[Bearded_Geek]

Honeslty, it's all matter of tastes I guess. For example maybe after experiencing a "sad" ending in a game/movie, you can realize how great/happy your life is (so it remain "positive").
But it's like any "taste", hard to say... Why I prefer black chocolate to white one ? I just prefer black chocolate...
After, the game is not a full package of "sadness"... There are bunch of awesome/happy/great moments, maybe more than sad ones

Spoiler: Just few ones

With A Little Help From My Friends
Following The River
Pyramid Song
Boat Drink

But I'm aware that a "dying character" is just a no go for some players... (for me, not worse than Alduin who is about destroying the world or Reapers who are about destroying all life in the Galaxy... Urgence still urgence, no matter and studios use that to "push" player to move on in the game).
It's like bugs, bugs never bother me as long as the game is good. For others, it's just impossible to ignore.

Edit : So to take your example of horror film, Cyberpunk (from Mike P.) with an happy ending in which the hero save the world and everyone is happy, would be like an Alien movie that would not be (a bit) scary... odd

I get that, but I wish reviews and articles had brought it up more. But it is my fault for buyng it blind I guess. As it is now I had my heart set on playing it all weekend (the only time I have to play games as an adult) and instead I have been putzing around on the internet, because I can't bring me to play it, but I am not in the mood for anything else either.

Post automatically merged: Dec 11, 2022

Oh btw how much does Keanu being Johnny matter to people? Because to me Keanu means literally nothing; I have never liked a single movie he has been in (that I have seen), which means I am not tempted to agree with Johnny just because he looks like the dude from John Wick / Matrix / Point Break / Bill and Ted or whatever.

Now if Johnny was played by Ryan Reynolds then I would have done anything for him

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Oh btw how much does Keanu being Johnny matter to people? Because to me Keanu means literally nothing; I have never liked a single movie he has been in (that I have seen), which means I am not tempted to agree with Johnny just because he looks like the dude from John Wick / Matrix / Point Break / Bill and Ted or whatever.

Now if Johnny was played by Ryan Reynolds then I would have done anything for him

Maybe important for some. Not really for me, even if I think Keanu did a good/great job incarnating Johnny...
But as far as we know, Johnny doesn't change because Keanu (CDPR didn't write/re-write the role especially for Keanu, they just add more dialogue lines here and there because he loved the character).
So Johnny "played" by Ryan Reynolds would have been as hateful and an asshole anyway

 

[Bearded_Geek]

Anyway, back to the endings and gameplay.

I am not uninstalling it yet, but I seriously doubt I will ever continue past act 1 for preventive mental health protection.
I don't do depressing things, and I mean that. It's a mental heath guard I have and even though it means I am left out of 99.7% of all modern media (because everything in society fetishizes depression and uncontrolled violence these days in an unironical way) I have kept it up. Not watching almost any popular streamed shows for the last 10 years because of it.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Anyway, back to the endings and gameplay.

I am not uninstalling it yet, but I seriously doubt I will ever continue past act 1 for preventive mental health protection.
I don't do depressing things, and I mean that. It's a mental heath guard I have and even though it means I am left out of 99.7% of all modern media (because everything in society fetishizes depression and uncontrolled violence these days in an unironical way) I have kept it up. Not watching almost any popular streamed shows for the last 10 years because of it.

If I have advices, if you can't stand Johnny and/or the main story :
Just rush the main story until you reach Nocturne OP55N1 (the point of no return before the endings) which can be rather quick and ignore Johnny as much as possible (not always possible, but you almost always have a way to say "fuck off dude !".
Then drop the main quest here and enjoy the rest of the game which is in my opinion, the best (if you take a look of the quest I mentionned before, it's all side quests)

 

[Bearded_Geek]

If I have advices, if you can't stand Johnny and/or the main story :
Just rush the main story until you reach Nocturne OP55N1 (the point of no return before the endings) which can be rather quick and ignore Johnny as much as possible (not always possible, but you almost always have a way to say "fuck off dude !".
Then drop the main quest here and enjoy the rest of the game which is in my opinion, the best (if you take a look of the quest I mentionned before, it's all side quests)

Still think the game is simply too depressing and depression-triggering tho. As I said in my initial post just finding out about the main plot past Act 1 made me stop playing and I have not been able to make myself play anything else for a day and a half now. I REALLY want to get back to My V, but I refuse to have her go thru that. And by extension make me go thru that. I keep looking at the yellow banner in my Steam gallery wondering if I should click Uninstall or not...

But thanks for the advice.

 

[The_Blacks]

So Johnny "played" by Ryan Reynolds would have been as hateful and an asshole anyway

Even more so, it would have turned the whole story into a comedy.

"Maximum effort, V!"

 

[Bearded_Geek]

Even more so, it would have turned the whole story into a comedy.

"Maximum effort, V!"

Comedy I can handle. Which is why I adore Orks, for example.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Still think the game is simply too depressing and depression-triggering tho.

To be honest, the world is "despressing" by itself. Just few examples who come in my mind...

• Over-polluted world to the point that there is almost no more animals (there is no longer bees. Birds were eradicated on purpose to limit diseases,...)
• Corporations literally lead the world and fix the "rules" (even governments are under corpos lead or simply corrupted).
• People work to death for those who work... (80h/weeks if they're lucky and probaly under drugs addictions, with 6 days paid vacations at best and sign for 20 years loyalty obligation at best ...).
• Only rich people who represent a tiny minority, can afford health care.
• Cops can shot people limbs which is only considered as warning shot (so not serious).

I mean, you have to dig pretty deep to found a bit of happyness there

Edit :
After it's just my opinion, but bad/sad moments make good moments even better/enjoyable.
Major spoiler about one ending (The Star), but I guess it won't bother you at this point
Knowing that V "swim" in this mess and this brutal city almost alone all the time with almost no one to count on it.. When this happen, it's just freaking great if you ask me.
(At the right time, just a scene to watch)

Spoiler

 

[Bearded_Geek]

To be honest, the world is "despressing" by itself. Just few examples who come in my mind...

• Over-polluted world to the point that there is almost no more animals (there is no longer bees. Birds were eradicated on purpose to limit diseases,...)
• Corporations literally lead the world and fix the "rules" (even governments are under corpos lead or simply corrupted).
• People work to death for those who work... (80h/weeks if they're lucky and probaly under drugs addictions, with 6 days paid vacations at best and sign for 20 years loyalty obligation at best ...).
• Only rich people who represent a tiny minority, can afford health care.
• Cops can shot people limbs which is only considered as warning shot (so not serious).

I mean, you have to dig pretty deep to found a bit of happiness there

Edit :
After it's just my opinion, but bad/sad moments make good moments even better/enjoyable.
Major spoiler about one ending (The Star), but I guess it won't bother you at this point
Knowing that V "swim" in this mess and this brutal city almost alone all the time with almost no one to count on it.. When this happen, it's just freaking great if you ask me.
(At the right time, just a scene to watch)

Spoiler

Thanks for posting that. Yeah I know about Star already, it's the only ending except suicide I find acceptable after googling the endings. And barely, since Death is there anyway.
Btw it's funny how the fictional list of doom is almost identical to the REAL list of doom I posted above as an example of why "fleeing" into a depressing fictional universe doesn't make sense to me since the world is doomed IRL.

To me, depressing art is for people too afraid to watch reality, not for people "experiencing reality thru art". There is nothing "better" or "truer" or "more intellectual" or "deeper" about sad or depressing art. Claiming that Tragedy is a superior art form (as someone did above) is just objectively wrong; it is a hundred times easier to write a tragedy than a good (emphasis good) comedy. All you have to do is go "But what if everything sucked (and the Gods are evil)?".

This game is such an odd mismatch between the wonderfully realized (but terrible) world, the depressing main story (and side stories) and the character customizations, vehicles and everything else on the other hand. I think that's so weird to me, it holds you to a dark depressing narrative but at the same time "Hey look! Golden short-shorts! Oh and a brand new car!! Isn't this AWESOME??". it almost seems like two separate games to me.

Anyway, I am an outsider to this universe and hate the horrible outlook of it (because it is taken seriously, unlike 40K and Fallout that can just laugh at) and that means I wasn't expecting this level of angst and sadness. It is obviously a problem a lot of franchise based games have; the fans, the initiated, know exactly what they expect, but a lot of outside people drawn in by the hype does not. Same as in especially AC Valhalla which sold twice as many games as any previous title and therefore a majority of players had no idea it actually is a cyberpunk world where you play in a computer simulation; you are not actually a viking. A lot of confusion there.

 

[LeKill3rFou]

Thanks for posting that. Yeah I know about Star already, it's the only ending except suicide I find acceptable after googling the endings. And barely, since Death is there anyway.

Again, matter of interpretations and who believe.
On one side, Alt said that V will die anyway... But on another side, Panam said that she know people who can save V's life.
So at the end, you can chose to believe Alt, an AI who, to be honest don't really care about V. Or Panam, who really, really care about V...

To me, depressing art is for people too afraid to watch reality, not for people "experiencing reality thru art". There is nothing "better" or "truer" or "more intellectual" or "deeper" about sad or depressing art. Claiming that Tragedy is a superior art form (as someone did above) is just objectively wrong; it is a hundred times easier to write a tragedy than a good (emphasis good) comedy. All you have to do is go "But what if everything sucked (and the Gods are evil)?".

I don't think it's better (nor worst), just something else that some like, some don't. All matter of tastes/preferences
(But I'm quite bored by stories which always finish happily... I mean, you know the hero will save the world and beat the bad guys, you just don't know how)

Same as in especially AC Valhalla which sold twice as many games as any previous title and therefore a majority of players had no idea it actually is a cyberpunk world where you play in a computer simulation; you are not actually a viking. A lot of confusion there.

Funny example, I played Valhalla few days ago. I found the story... meh, not really interesting... But it didn't prevent me to really enjoy exploring the map (I avoided a lot of side quests because they had no sense to me...)

 

[Neriyavanli]

To me, depressing art is for people too afraid to watch reality, not for people "experiencing reality thru art". There is nothing "better" or "truer" or "more intellectual" or "deeper" about sad or depressing art. Claiming that Tragedy is a superior art form (as someone did above) is just objectively wrong; it is a hundred times easier to write a tragedy than a good (emphasis good) comedy. All you have to do is go "But what if everything sucked (and the Gods are evil)?".

I would have to disagree with this wholeheartedly "depressing art" as you call is a matter of perspective and the emotions one feel when looking/experiencing it. It has nothing to do with people being "too afraid" to watch reality hell you can face tragedy trauma death and other horrible things and become desensitized to it because for you it is an endless reality. You because numb to it and the experience has no emotion or psychological impact cause this is your reality your life but it is only when you experience "depressing art" do you feel anything.

While to a certain extent I agree with the writing a tragedy is easy I would like to point out that is true for every genre it's easy to make comedies horror tragedies romance and the likes cause it all follows a formula but it is only once you step out of the formula do you have experience something great/meaningful and even then it is all a matter of preference and perspective. What one person take and experience isn't always shared and or felt. To me cyberpunk and it's journey to the end/the ending are a very good example of just that

 

[Bearded_Geek]

I would have to disagree with this wholeheartedly "depressing art" as you call is a matter of perspective and the emotions one feel when looking/experiencing it. It has nothing to do with people being "too afraid" to watch reality hell you can face tragedy trauma death and other horrible things and become desensitized to it because for you it is an endless reality. You because numb to it and the experience has no emotion or psychological impact cause this is your reality your life but it is only when you experience "depressing art" do you feel anything.

While to a certain extent I agree with the writing a tragedy is easy I would like to point out that is true for every genre it's easy to make comedies horror tragedies romance and the likes cause it all follows a formula but it is only once you step out of the formula do you have experience something great/meaningful and even then it is all a matter of preference and perspective. What one person take and experience isn't always shared and or felt. To me cyberpunk and it's journey to the end/the ending are a very good example of just that

Well agree to disagree. The fetishization of darkness and depression in today's media is one thing that really bothers me. Heck we're a good way towards those chock value BDs in the game already...
I mean when I talk to people at work and everyone no matter age or gender goes (made up example) "Oh X is such a good show! The episode I saw last night where she murdered the neighbor with an axe and her son to death for stepping on her lawn was so well written" I am like "What the fudge is WRONG with you"... But apparently I'm the only person at work that feels that way.
I seem to be the only person around that truly loved She-Hulk, which incidentally was the only show in three years I could really get into anyway because it is silly and fun and I am still holding a hope there will be a season 2.

Saddest part tho is that I still haven't figured out what I want to play instead. The first part of this game really got me hooked and I still haven't gotten away from it.

Post automatically merged: Dec 12, 2022

(At the right time, just a scene to watch)

Spoiler

I like most of her(?) playthrus, and I had already started watching this one. I think I just sit thru the whole thing, and if I can stommach it, I will go back into the game. Judging by this part she seems to have taken several decisions I would have too.

 

[Neriyavanli]

The fetishization of darkness and depression in today's media is one thing that really bothers me.

I get this with like most things once it is fetishize it becomes a very bothersome/uncomfortable thing to consume and it is more about the look look with did this horrible thing than about the story or art form center around it. Like media back in the day if something depressing or tragic happened it wasn't the center point of the show it was part of the story, things happened that got us here and it makes us feel more because of how we feel about the character or how the story was played not the carnage that happened unless you are watching a horror movie or tv show then is all about the carnage lol.

Which is why I like cyberpunk for me none of it seems like a look we did this cause shock factor or because we are trying to fetishize or fantasize it. The sad moments makes sense, the tragic moments makes sense, the horrible thing that happen make sense in this world but there are also good thing and good people in it and it is once you stop only looking at the bad and negative do you really start to appreciate the bigger picture and the hope that can be find in it. V still has time and a life to live what they do with it what fulfillment/desire they seek in whatever ending path they take is ultimately up to your own interpretation (of said ending) or CDPR (if they continue / mention V in the next game)

 

[Bearded_Geek]

I get this with like most things once it is fetishize it becomes a very bothersome/uncomfortable thing to consume and it is more about the look look with did this horrible thing than about the story or art form center around it. Like media back in the day if something depressing or tragic happened it wasn't the center point of the show it was part of the story, things happened that got us here and it makes us feel more because of how we feel about the character or how the story was played not the carnage that happened unless you are watching a horror movie or tv show then is all about the carnage lol.

Which is why I like cyberpunk for me none of it seems like a look we did this cause shock factor or because we are trying to fetishize or fantasize it. The sad moments makes sense, the tragic moments makes sense, the horrible thing that happen make sense in this world but there are also good thing and good people in it and it is once you stop only looking at the bad and negative do you really start to appreciate the bigger picture and the hope that can be find in it. V still has time and a life to live what they do with it what fulfillment/desire they seek in whatever ending path they take is ultimately up to your own interpretation (of said ending) or CDPR (if they continue / mention V in the next game)

And we have gone full circle again, like the OP of this looong thread. I am not interested in the story about a terminally ill person; it is not a story I want to play nor the story we were promised. Nor am I interested in a redeeming ark for a brain tumor with an attitude. (Seriously, why do ALL game publishers lie about the story in their RPGs these days?). The "Explore Night City on your own terms" bit simply doesn't exist in game. Anyway as someone who has had 3 out of 4 grandparents be just that, terminally ill people with brain cancer, V's story is nothing special yet extremely triggering.
I want my goddamn power fantasy. That's why I play games. Period.

 

[The_Blacks]

And we have gone full circle again, like the OP of this looong thread. I am not interested in the story about a terminally ill person; it is not a story I want to play nor the story we were promised. Nor am I interested in a redeeming ark for a brain tumor with an attitude. (Seriously, why do ALL game publishers lie about the story in their RPGs these days?). The "Explore Night City on your own terms" bit simply doesn't exist in game. Anyway as someone who has had 3 out of 4 grandparents be just that, terminally ill people with brain cancer, V's story is nothing special yet extremely triggering.
I want my goddamn power fantasy. That's why I play games. Period.

Maybe u should check Bioware games (Mass Effect, Dragon Age), they're more into the happy ending/MCU territory. CDPR games do not really deal with those concepts (altho TW3 ending where Ciri remains a Witcher was quite happy all things considered )

 

[Sunsibar]

Here is what I think about my actual (first) ending (kinda Devil but without saving Takemura part in it).

I did make the choice of returning back to earth to die. Risk of "living" forever in some cold and dark cyberspace as corporate toy didn't feel like my thing at all. I'd rather take the risk of returning back to earth and live the rest of my life like a human being. With all the emotions, tragedies, sadness, moments of joys and happiness that are part of human life. At least I could say that I lived my life and died with my boots on, no matter how short the time left would be. Searching for a cure failed? Oh well, let's pick up the next life goal and go for that.

Did I ever see V actually die? No. When my game ended, I had a feeling that she might even live surprisingly long. Who knows what will happen in the future. Maybe someone actually did find a way for her to survive. Maybe she saved several people somewhere sacrificing herself in the process and she will live forever in the hearts of those people and their offsprings. Maybe she got hit by a buss next week and she died because of that. We don't know, so the final ending of the story could be whatever we want it to be.

 

[SigilFey]

I think a big point of confusion is that V won't really "die". The engram will eat up the physical parts of his/her brain and nervous system and replace them with its own, but V's "spirit" is merging with the engram all the while. Yes, the individual identified as "V" will no longer exist in the same form, but the imprint that V leaves on "Johnny" will remain as part of the engram. They'll become one, so to speak. The game comes back to this 3 or 4 times, regardless of the path you take, so I'd say that's pretty strong implication that this is what will actually happen. (Especially considering the only other stuff we're told is: "We have no idea what will happen.")

V's body, however, will continue living on indefinitely, more or less. As "Johnny+V" in artificial, engram form. Literally, an AI using the body as a puppet, but simultaneously a reflection of both individual consciousnesses. I mean, the engram already saved V from being shot in the head at point blank range. Can't really imagine that it's gotten less effective and robust over time as it takes over more of V's nervous system.

The tragic elements revolve around the loss of self, moreso than "dying" in the traditional sense.