You don't have to get forensic with the cuddle discourse to acknowledge that the amount of content and relevance to the story, romantic or otherwise, is heavily skewed toward the female romances, mainly Panam. I can't even track where the source of the pushback could possibly be on this.
Where do we put eddies on this? I'm down for equal amounts "writing River off with another woman" and "they just completely kill him dead for the emotional impact."
I have low expectations already, but even lower for River. Normally when a character's survival is player determinant, which River's already is, you can notice once you save them how their relevance to the story diminishes. I always think of how saving Mordin Solus leads to him going into hiding and you never see or hear about him again anyway. If River's mentioned again, my money's on the big "fuck you" reverse of the Star ending where someone says him, Joss, and the kids left NC.
Where do we put eddies on this? I'm down for equal amounts "writing River off with another woman" and "they just completely kill him dead for the emotional impact."
Not-romanced-Panam-perspective:
Two persons are sitting besides each other on a narrow tank, probably thinking/talking about significant common events in the last weeks. No arm around the shoulder, no kisses, no longer touching: no cuddling.
I just looked at a romanced Panam Star ending video on youtube, and it's exactly the same. If you don't want to see it as cuddling, that's fine, I still agree to disagree, and I am very comfortable with saying that yes, I am envious of the fact that Panam fans get a full ending devoted to their preferred love interest, and whether you romanced her or not, the final scene of the game is devoted to her.
Yes, but how is it against Panam having more content in the game than other LIs ? Still 25 min more rather than 50?
She is still the only LI who doesn't turn to "I'll pop up into the ending for 2 min and then call you on the holo" after sex.
Now, according to YouTube "questline full missions", not just cutscenes:
- Panam has 3 hours of content
- Judy has 3 hours of content (there's a 3h30 min video, but 30 min are Clouds/Evelyn/Woodman)
- River has 2 hours 10 min
- Kerry has around 1 hour 30 min
This is basically where I'm at. No, I don't need or want all the love interests to be exactly the same and interchangeable, I just want acknowledgment that the game has "right" and "wrong" choices when it comes to love interests. If you want content, choose Panam or Judy. If you really like using your imagination and reading fanfic, River and Kerry are your men.
You don't have to get forensic with the cuddle discourse to acknowledge that the amount of content and relevance to the story, romantic or otherwise, is heavily skewed toward the female romances, mainly Panam. I can't even track where the source of the pushback could possibly be on this.
I have low expectations already, but even lower for River. Normally when a character's survival is player determinant, which River's already is, you can notice once you save them how their relevance to the story diminishes. I always think of how saving Mordin Solus leads to him going into hiding and you never see or hear about him again anyway. If River's mentioned again, my money's on the big "fuck you" reverse of the Star ending where someone says him, Joss, and the kids left NC.
But yeah, like I have some deep, deeply buried hopes that they'll manage to make this better and feel a little less gross. Realistically, I'm not sure how they can rebalance it or bring it back around or if they even will, since any DLC (even if it's post-credit) isn't a guaranteed happy ending either. I'm hanging out to see where it goes because I paid the price for the game and want to see how it develops.
Yes, but how is it against Panam having more content in the game than other LIs ? Still 25 min more rather than 50?
She is still the only LI who doesn't turn to "I'll pop up into the ending for 2 min and then call you on the holo" after sex.
Now, according to YouTube "questline full missions", not just cutscenes:
- Panam has 3 hours of content
- Judy has 3 hours of content (there's a 3h30 min video, but 30 min are Clouds/Evelyn/Woodman)
- River has 2 hours 10 min
- Kerry has around 1 hour 30 min
ehhh, kerry's and Kerry involved content is pretty fun and a break from the death race. Most of Judy's content is depressing, and involves dealing with her ex girlfriends.
This is basically where I'm at. No, I don't need or want all the love interests to be exactly the same and interchangeable, I just want acknowledgment that the game has "right" and "wrong" choices when it comes to love interests. If you want content, choose Panam or Judy. If you really like using your imagination and reading fanfic, River and Kerry are your men.
And then even story-wise, Judy, who wanted to leave NC but never said she's into nomads, decides to go with the nomads for V. As if the only way to leave NC was to live in a tent in a desert, or a trailer. Not the best place for a techie with lots of equipment either. And that's just because Star has to be about love.
So, you get 2 female interests in one ending (yes, Panam is interested in males only, but I'm talking about admirability).
Kerry is sweet for those 3 min he gets; River is acting weird with all the "oh, you're dying, so what"; picturing Kerry and River in one sunset ending...just impossible
I finally went for the solo attack at Arasaka and The sun ending. My friends didn't die. They were not really happy with V not contacting them, but still friendly. Rogue still alive. Alt took Johnny and the souls from Mikoshi. As she said, the animal part remains, so I believe that the construct don't really lose their identity. River the terminator was quite supportive. Only Takemura spoiled the ending but I didn't get what his problem was because Hanako and all board members knew who the killer was. Sorry Goro, not selling my soul to Arasaka, not even for you . Further everything in this ending didn't look like an end but rather as to be continued, so I'm glad
ehhh, kerry's and Kerry involved content is pretty fun and a break from the death race. Most of Judy's content is depressing, and involves dealing with her ex girlfriends.
Takemura is mad cause Yorinobu kills Hanako, I think, no matter how you decide to attack Arasaka (Panam, Rogue, solo). It's mentioned somewhere....on the radio?
upd. Apparently not, this is what the fandom wiki says. Although Alt seems to be doing even more work in the Sun.
I was thinking Yorinobu cause he's already keeping her hostage in the Devil's ending, + Hanako herself at the Embers says he was planning to.
Plus one of River's (3) missions is dead teenagers in a serial killer's barn and isn't really a barrel of laughs. Playing VR games with the kids is fun, but that mission chain was heavy.
I finally went for the solo attack at Arasaka and The sun ending. My friends didn't die. They were not really happy with V not contacting them, but still friendly. Rogue still alive. Alt took Johnny and the souls from Mikoshi. As she said, the animal part remains, so I believe that the construct don't really lose their identity. River the terminator was quite supportive. Only Takemura spoiled the ending but I didn't get what his problem was because Hanako and all board members knew who the killer was. Sorry Goro, not selling my soul to Arasaka, not even for you . Further everything in this ending didn't look like an end but rather as to be continued, so I'm glad
takemura's angry scene I was like Aight man whatevs, come get me. I thought he might understand I was a ronin, but if he wants to take it personal, thats on him.
nah, its totally not about that for me. I'd rather spend one hour with a date I'm interested in, than 3 hours with a date thats ok. I can't see romance being measured in only time spent.
not only that but most of your time with panam/river isn't about V or them, its about some action/event going on. Like really, hunting down wraiths.... not really a great romance story.
Hey honey, remember the time you were in a truck with a sniper rifle yelling at me while I was locked in mortal combat trying to find your dad figure before he died? that when I knew it was love.
takemura's angry scene I was like Aight man whatevs, come get me. I thought he might understand I was a ronin, but if he wants to take it personal, thats on him.
I certainly wouldn't mind more quests with Kerry and River. They managed to turn RIver from cool badge into jambalaya guy way too fast to make him really interesting.
Ehh, I'm fine with it, it was actually interesting to see, it was also the first time I saved him. I'm looking forward to seeing him again now. It'll be interesting.
Plus one of River's (3) missions is dead teenagers in a serial killer's barn and isn't really a barrel of laughs. Playing VR games with the kids is fun, but that mission chain was heavy.
Personally, I think river has the worst of all worlds. He doesn't get much time, and he doesn't get that much river focused development. He also gets foot in mouth more, but I think thats part of his character. His reason for staying in nomad ending was charachtrr illuminating though. He's a solid guy, but they don't deliver him as well as other charachters
nah, its totally not about that for me. I'd rather spend one hour with a date I'm interested in, than 3 hours with a date thats ok. I can't see romance being measured in only time spent.
That's fair, but @sacred_darling 's post you quoted mentioned that those Youtube video compilations were for characters full questlines not just romances. So the time measurement is for how much screentime they have in general. You'd like something more lighthearted which is absolutely fine and understandable. I would have loved to have a couple of quests with River investigating crimes and whatnot and having at least one more quest with Kerry where it's just him and V talking about his music or mental health. Something, anything to make that screentime more equal.
Personally, I think river has the worst of all worlds. He doesn't get much time, and he doesn't get that much river focused development. He also gets foot in mouth more, but I think thats part of his character. His reason for staying in nomad ending was charachtrr illuminating though. He's a solid guy, but they don't deliver him as well as other charachters
Speaking of River and the Nomad ending, I had gone in blind and thought that they definitely would bring up the fact that Joss's husband was an Aldecados (or at least rode with them). It's totally understandable that River wouldn't want to leave his sister and the kids behind, but wouldn't the Aldecados remember Joss's husband and be open to Joss and her children joining them (thus giving River a reason to come along)? Of course, it's also reasonable to think that Joss isn't interested in that lifestyle for herself or her kids, but I expected the possibility to at least come up in the breakup scene. I think I expected too much from any content involving River...I like his character, but it really would have been nice to have a few more quests and better pacing in the romance.
But @sacred_darling 's post you quoted mentioned that those Youtube video compilations were for characters full questlines not just romances. So the time measurement is for how much screentime they have in general. You'd like something more lighthearted which is absolutely fine and understandable. I would have loved to have a couple of quests with River investigating crimes and whatnot and having at least one more quest with Kerry where it's just him and V talking about his music or mental health. Something, anything to make that screentime more equal.
Judy probably has the best romance, it feels the most organic and natural, and little moments draw your interest. However, its pretty heavy, and she's not too flexible. I Didnt really enjoy replaying it much in multi playthroughs.
Kerry's stuff was generally surprisingly fun, and took me from thinking he's an eh character, to a pretty cool dude. Generally, I'd probably do his missions when available
Panam, she is visually entertaining, and sometimes sweet, but ehh, something's missing here imo. I appreciate her ride or dieness though, but overall it comes across more of physical relationship to me.
river, poorly developed, I can see what the appeal is supposed to be, but it happens pretty fast, and you don't really know the character that well. This one probably needs more quests, and more character revealing content the most.
Speaking of River and the Nomad ending, I had gone in blind and thought that they definitely would bring up the fact that Joss's husband was an Aldecados (or at least rode with them). It's totally understandable that River wouldn't want to leave his sister and the kids behind, but wouldn't the Aldecados remember Joss's husband and be open to Joss and her children joining them (thus giving River a reason to come along)? Of course, it's also reasonable to think that Joss isn't interested in that lifestyle for herself or her kids, but I expected the possibility to at least come up in the breakup scene. I think I expected too much from any content involving River...I like his character, but it really would have been nice to have a few more quests and better pacing in the romance.
right, but it wasn't just his family, he didnt want to give up on making a night city a better place. He feels wrong turning his back on those people who want decent shot, with police who aren't corrupt. Though, looks like if V is out there he may give it all up, I hear he says he'll visit in a message.
that said, the nomad life is pretty bad cannonicly, might not be a great look for kids either.
Given the limited choices, I wish romances didn't play such a big role in how uplifting and fulfilling the endings feel. They're major characters and need to be acknowledged, sure, but there's too much focus on the LIs and too little on V an their actual goals and feelings.
I doubt that the Star ending would still be considered the best one without the Panam/Judy romance.
Judy probably has the best romance, it feels the most organic and natural, and little moments draw your interest. However, its pretty heavy, and she's not too flexible. I Didnt really enjoy replaying it much in multi playthroughs.
Kerry's stuff was generally surprisingly fun, and took me from thinking he's an eh character, to a pretty cool dude. Generally, I'd probably do his missions when available
Panam, she is visually entertaining, and sometimes sweet, but ehh, something's missing here imo. I appreciate her ride or dieness though, but overall it comes across more of physical relationship to me.
river, poorly developed, I can see what the appeal is supposed to be, but it happens pretty fast, and you don't really know the character that well. This one probably needs more quests, and more character revealing content the most.
Pretty much same impression. I like the characters but didn't enjoy any of the romances that much, ended up with no LI.
Judy is quite self centered after the Clouds plot, River is very family focused, Panam is hot headed and childish at times, and Kerry hasn't completely gotten over Johnny.
Given the limited choices, I wish romances didn't play such a big role in how uplifting and fulfilling the endings feel. They're major characters and need to be acknowledged, sure, but there's too much focus on the LIs and too little on V an their actual goals and feelings.
I doubt that the Star ending would still be considered the best one without the Panam/Judy romance.
it was actually pretty freeing to do sun with no LI.
the problem with V's goals and feelings is they need another character to interact with to reveal them. Then its also hard, because different players have different motivations.
I think they are kind of on the right track with optional side stories that effect the other narratives, but they need more of them, more varied, and probably not all LI focused. Lets say mama Welles had a side quest, and the result had her see you off in the afterlife with an extra convo with some your like family prompts. Or maybe based on some vik based side story, your at a boxing gym with him before you get delamain cab to afterlife in sun. Zen master appears on roof scene for a final meditation, removing relic effects and giving a slight buff, (spiritual awakening in the concrete jungle).
Even, they could add dialog options based on past quests done, Where you can define V more based on past experiences.
Going forward, I hope they can develop more of V's reason for existing beyond love, or avoiding death.
I experienced first Nomad and now special ending ... to be honest I more liked leaving Night CIty with Nomads and Judi. Special end is kinda much darker ... so, well ... CDPR, I hope you will have some (good) continuation for our V's in the future, such stories should not end half way ...
... my street kid Valerie want Judi back and she is in urgent need for new body too
