(spoiler) CHIPPIN IN... SUCKIN IN

[CannedPlayer]

I really dont know how far Mike Pondsmith got his hands on this, but it simply doesnt feel like he had such a big relevance in the end.

The LATEST CHANCES they made in the CHIPPIN IN sidequest to ensure silverhand´s friendship depending on MANDATORY choices imply directly that theres no room for subjectivism, other than cd projekt´s undertanding of things.

The option for the SECRET ENDING in fact should be the 1st offered, once i allowed that johnny silverhand selfish son of a bitch to hang out with all kinda whores, drink and smoke tirelessly, and even have a stupid tattoo, not counting the whole set of actions we did in the game, and his band reunion.

He (his engram) should be thankful for 10 reincarnations for us to allow him so much. And because of that he should understand what it meand to care about your few friends you have in life (even worse in night city) and then offer the suicidal run AS THE 1ST ALTERNATIVE for fucks sakes.

Doesnt make any sense to say "the guy that saved my life", when the mood of that conversation was heavy and desolated as johnny sees the last place where his body was thrown, and it looks like a complete trash filled of emptiness. So the point was to comfort him, not to be sarcastic and throw facts at his face.

I knew i had to choose options that simpathysed with him, but at the same time i didnt feel he was anything SUPER, so i said "relentless rockerboy", because for the mood of that conversation, it should be better to say a nice thing instead of picking the sarcastic "guy who saved my life", afterall we were visiting the trash that had his body thrown. And he even said THANKS when i called him relentless rockerboy, buuuut since we have to comply with cd-projekt, no secret ending if you miss that.

As I already know, these changes were made in the last seconds, going against what can be found in a game guide i cant remember right now, so i had absolutelly no problem to get a mod that fixed that for me, and i felt very happy when i used the code line and then silvercrap was BYPASSED and forced to be my "happy tree friend". Not to mention that unlike mass effect who got things straight, dialogue lines by cdproject offer a "distorted peak" of what will be said, and sometimes you just "OOOW i wasnt thinking that this would go this way"

Unfortunatelly the secret ending is an ALTERNATIVE ending in fact. An arrange just to make things feel a bit better or less worse.

Anyway screw it, i just had to throw this out. I enjoyed the game because i followed a gameplay style that kept me out of police when doing 90% of alll things on stealth.

It´s a good game, but not spectacular. The mayor side story is much more cyber punk than silvercrap. They just needed a hollywood star to milk it a bit

 

[Armedain824]

Agree wholeheartedly... Honestly, JS is such a whiny and annoying brat... All he really cares about is himself and so, what? We have to be NICE to him and cater to his whims to get a different ending?
No thanks.
Two runs of this game and I'm thinking I need to watch Bill and Ted or the first two John Wick movies to appreciate Mr. Reeves, again, because now I can't stand his voice because it reminds me of a prudish anarchic rockerboy-without-a-clue who "raged against the machine" and ultimately failed.

Also agree, though, about the other thing. The Peralez story was very cool and even THAT could have been part of a major story arc if you switch out the JS story with a good conspiracy or corporate organization story, instead. ( I also like that if you catch the right news broadcast you find that Peralez DID, in fact, win the election)

 

[Shoklen]

If the secret ending were a truly happy ending, I'd have more interest; as of right now i have zero interest in the secret ending.

I'll still go with the Nomad ending even though some characters die. I'm okay with this as I hardly know them and those i do make a small connection to within that group, live. **shrugs** Works for me I guess. As Panam would say, and dose say, they know what they are signing up for and will always help family knowing the risks. Johnny even ends up absorbed into Alt; I'm sure they will still find a way to live out more revenge from beyond the black wall.

In my second play-through I was very careful on how I answered Johnny every-time... But when I was given the choice to give him Vs body or throw myself back into the Well... V apologized for not keeping her promise to Johnny and wanted her (in my case) body back... Thing was, I never made that promise, ever, to Johnny, not in this play-though.

Keanu Reeves is one of the nicest peoples on the planet, but Johnny Silverhand can die in a fire as the nuclear terrorist he was.

Wait, what was the subject again? I think I went on a rant..

 

[CTPhipps]

If the secret ending were a truly happy ending, I'd have more interest; as of right now i have zero interest in the secret ending.

I remind that you live in the Legends ending.

 

[Armedain824]

@Shoklen - Yeah, I got my "rant on" in the secret endings thread, here.

Maybe it's the more you play it the more you get to hate JS? Or the more you realize the story isn't about YOU it's about Mr. Silverhand...

 

[Shoklen]

I remind that you live in the Legends ending.

True, true, I'll have to run that ending... but...

Wasn't that Jackie's Dream though, to be a living Legend... and the "six months" is still in play?

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

@Shoklen - Yeah, I got my "rant on" in the secret endings thread, here.

Maybe it's the more you play it the more you get to hate JS? Or the more you realize the story isn't about YOU it's about Mr. Silverhand...

I'm even more suspicious of Johnny after watching Ex Machina (2015).. In that case it was a pure AI, but I see Johnny being just as manipulative in his goals.

Johnny merging with Alt and all the (currently) saved souls in the Relic program, that could be one heck of a super being and could easily collapse the new net; dawning a 3rd age of the net. Could be interesting. (I'm purely speculating of course).

 

[Droladya]

Thanks for the cut main story, Johnney and V can hardly compromise.
Johnney is a jerk. That's no doubt that he don't like living with V, and V also hate the situation.
They have a strong story conflict, which should be a good way to make the story excellent.
But if there is no story about how they become friends, that would be a disaster.

BTW, I have a thought of the pills, setting two different pills must have reason, why not a jet just keep Johnney away?
I think CDPR once allowed V and Johnney switch by the pills so that they can work together.
V need more story with Johnney to make everything sence.

 

[jj284b]

Mike Pondsmith is even in the game... he is radio DJ on one of the radios (107.3 Morro Rock Radio to be precise), and he is talking about stuff happening in the game (Arasaka, Yorinobu, Militech etc etc etc...) and he actually gives some nice perspective on things happening...

 

[Nadim0000]

He (his engram) should be thankful for 10 reincarnations for us to allow him so much.

il play the devils advocate

2 things you are completely ignoring
1-V was supposed to Die after the heist AND after the voodo boys mission
2-Silverhand could have easily taken over V and could have done MUCH worse than what you have previously mentioned
,yet he wanted to save V and tried his best doing so ,even putting rogues life on the line.

Anyways i love this side quest for so many reason but one thing that stood out to me was ,V could do what others in Johnny's life couldn't which was break Johnny out of his egotistical shell ,that moment when he saw his grave and having reality hit him while sitting disappointingly on his mess and forgotten grave was pure art imo it showed where his extreme ideals would lead him ,it showed Johnny that if all you do is burn everything to the ground then you will have nothing left ,he lost everything including his own life all Johnny had was V ,at the ending if V decided to give Johnny his Body then even though its depressing and may not be the best ending ,its beautiful in a way V would give Johnny a second chance at life same way Johnny did for V.

there is a good video on it

 

[CannedPlayer]

il play the devils advocate

2 things you are completely ignoring
1-V was supposed to Die after the heist AND after the voodo boys mission
2-Silverhand could have easily taken over V and could have done MUCH worse than what you have previously mentioned
,yet he wanted to save V and tried his best doing so ,even putting rogues life on the line.

1st, V wasnt supposed to die. he was supposed to deliver the shard and move on. even if there was a certain deathtrap waiting for him with a 100% chance of killing him, still the outcome of his life as we know the story cant be weighted like "ah he got all shit be he was supposed to die".... V didnt know what would happen, thus he wasnt on a decision situation to begin with.

2nd Silverhand COULD do it in the same was as all of us can put a bullet in our brains and step out of history. what keeps us from doing that is our whole personality construction. you see many real life hot heads and even convicted murderers with estabilshed limits on what they accept to go. While johhny was a pain in the asshole, his engram stood long enough in cyberspace to "get himself together", and in the end he never could do it to V because for all we can see during the game, he´s the revolutionary guy that does things for a purpose, not just to see people getting killed.

johhny was from the rockerboy movement, a guy that wanted to spread the stop domination from mega corporations, so even in all his selfishness there were dignified principles towards people he didnt even know.

That´s what kept him from taking over V´s body when he saw something of him in V´s personality, and he says something like that along the game.

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

...I'm thinking I need to watch Bill and Ted or the first two John Wick movies to appreciate Mr. Reeves, again, because now I can't stand his voice because it reminds me of a prudish anarchic rockerboy-without-a-clue who "raged against the machine" and ultimately failed.

Nice that you reminded me that cuz I completely forgot to mention: HIS SPEECH TONE.

Im not joking here when I say Johhny in this game sounds like (Matrix) Morpheus under marijuana blessings.
I got absolutelly no ideia how they instructed Keanu, but his voice is quite lacks the tension the sceenes need, and it feels like he´s quite calm sitting on an atomic bomb thats falling down.

At some points i asked myself "does keanu sounds low-pitched like that in all his movies and I never noticed? "

oh and another thing... DOES IT REALLY LOOK LIKE JOHNNY SILVERHAND IS A SCREAMO ROCKERBOY?

Watch this video and tell me, doesnt this sound and look much more SILVERHAND than a screamo swedish band from the middle of nowhere?

This is Henry Rollins... who was johnny´s ripperdoc on Johnny Mnemonic movie. I imagine silverhand much more in this video than him playing the "teenage screamo guy".

Keanu, please...next time you´ll narrate, please drink 10 redbull cans 1st.

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

If the secret ending were a truly happy ending, I'd have more interest; as of right now i have zero interest in the secret ending.

Keanu Reeves is one of the nicest peoples on the planet, but Johnny Silverhand can die in a fire as the nuclear terrorist he was.

That depends on how you understand the human being. There´s the SOUL component that´s being forgotten. Would you love your wife/girlfriend in the same was as you do know, if you knew her soul was killed and they implanted back her former self from an engram? She would think, remember and feel and act the same as before, and she wouldnt notice the difference on herself, but you would know that her soul is no more in her body.

How would you feel?

Alt Shittingham says right on "voodoo boys" meeting that " SOULKILLER does what it intends to, IT KILLS THE SOUL, and created an ENGRAM of the victim (PSYCHE + MEMORIES) "

And V even says "so you will flatline me to save me, great", and that´s precisely what happens. V dies when he plugs the shard in and lets Alt take control of Mikoshi. That moment V as we know is dead. Only what lasts is his digital construct, that you can opt to be inserted back in the body.

From that moment on, Panam, rogue, misty, whatever characters will just deal with a living copy.

The ONLY ending that keeps V in its true natural form (body and soul is: ARASAKA > BACK TO EARTH. All the other endings he dies. And 3 of them get him back as a digital copy inserted in a body that will last 6 months best.

I can tell you that there´s a whole deal of bittersweetness in these endings on purpose. It looks like they wanted to get rid of both silvercrap and V, to make dlcs based on new characters, thus making the game independent of V and future contracts with keanu, but then they went a bit too far and we felt the bitter part harder than the sweet one.

And I agree with you that keanu seems an OK guy, reserved and shit, ok to me, no problem, but silvercrap needs to be DELETED. And i would set his grave on fire to make sure the last bacteria of his dna would be gone forever.

ahahahahahah

 

[jj284b]

Secret ending is the Legend ending.. you defeat Arasaka by yourself alone and nobody you knew dies because of it... which makes you a living legend with a clear conscience...

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

1st, V wasnt supposed to die. he was supposed to deliver the shard and move on. even if there was a certain deathtrap waiting for him with a 100% chance of killing him, still the outcome of his life as we know the story cant be weighted like "ah he got all shit be he was supposed to die".... V didnt know what would happen, thus he wasnt on a decision situation to begin with.

2nd Silverhand COULD do it in the same was as all of us can put a bullet in our brains and step out of history. what keeps us from doing that is our whole personality construction. you see many real life hot heads and even convicted murderers with estabilshed limits on what they accept to go. While johhny was a pain in the asshole, his engram stood long enough in cyberspace to "get himself together", and in the end he never could do it to V because for all we can see during the game, he´s the revolutionary guy that does things for a purpose, not just to see people getting killed.

johhny was from the rockerboy movement, a guy that wanted to spread the stop domination from mega corporations, so even in all his selfishness there were dignified principles towards people he didnt even know.

That´s what kept him from taking over V´s body when he saw something of him in V´s personality, and he says something like that along the game.

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

Nice that you reminded me that cuz I completely forgot to mention: HIS SPEECH TONE.

Im not joking here when I say Johhny in this game sounds like (Matrix) Morpheus under marijuana blessings.
I got absolutelly no ideia how they instructed Keanu, but his voice is quite lacks the tension the sceenes need, and it feels like he´s quite calm sitting on an atomic bomb thats falling down.

At some points i asked myself "does keanu sounds low-pitched like that in all his movies and I never noticed? "

oh and another thing... DOES IT REALLY LOOK LIKE JOHNNY SILVERHAND IS A SCREAMO ROCKERBOY?

Watch this video and tell me, doesnt this sound and look much more SILVERHAND than a screamo swedish band from the middle of nowhere?

This is Henry Rollins... who was johnny´s ripperdoc on Johnny Mnemonic movie. I imagine silverhand much more in this video than him playing the "teenage screamo guy".

Keanu, please...next time you´ll narrate, please drink 10 redbull cans 1st.

Post automatically merged: Jan 18, 2021

That depends on how you understand the human being. There´s the SOUL component that´s being forgotten. Would you love your wife/girlfriend in the same was as you do know, if you knew her soul was killed and they implanted back her former self from an engram? She would think, remember and feel and act the same as before, and she wouldnt notice the difference on herself, but you would know that her soul is no more in her body.

How would you feel?

Alt Shittingham says right on "voodoo boys" meeting that " SOULKILLER does what it intends to, IT KILLS THE SOUL, and created an ENGRAM of the victim (PSYCHE + MEMORIES) "

And V even says "so you will flatline me to save me, great", and that´s precisely what happens. V dies when he plugs the shard in and lets Alt take control of Mikoshi. That moment V as we know is dead. Only what lasts is his digital construct, that you can opt to be inserted back in the body.

From that moment on, Panam, rogue, misty, whatever characters will just deal with a living copy.

The ONLY ending that keeps V in its true natural form (body and soul is: ARASAKA > BACK TO EARTH. All the other endings he dies. And 3 of them get him back as a digital copy inserted in a body that will last 6 months best.

I can tell you that there´s a whole deal of bittersweetness in these endings on purpose. It looks like they wanted to get rid of both silvercrap and V, to make dlcs based on new characters, thus making the game independent of V and future contracts with keanu, but then they went a bit too far and we felt the bitter part harder than the sweet one.

And I agree with you that keanu seems an OK guy, reserved and shit, ok to me, no problem, but silvercrap needs to be DELETED. And i would set his grave on fire to make sure the last bacteria of his dna would be gone forever.

ahahahahahah

Besides, i think Refused are more than fine...

 

[Armedain824]

@CannedPlayer - Yeah, when I first heard the music, I was like, "Wait, what? He's THAT kind of singer? Uh-huh, sure... "

Maybe 80's rock, maybe even semi-metal, but his personality does NOT "scream" heavy metal band singer... That also seems sort of "out of left field". But I digress...

 

[yota71]

Maybe most people hate this ending but it should be the canon ending, you have come to night city to make yourself a name, not to get a fiancee, and if you finish dont fear the reaper you get what you want, this is the core of the game

 

[CannedPlayer]

Besides, i think Refused are more than fine...

i really didnt like this band Refused... doesnt feel like johnny sings like that. at least their name is honest.

well, at least producers were kind enough to give us the best creation ever for this game... PON PON SHIT, which even johnny bows himself to it.

 

[yota71]

i really didnt like this band Refused... doesnt feel like johnny sings like that. at least their name is honest.

This song is a forbidden pleasure LOL

 

[CTPhipps]

The impression of Johnny Silverhand I got is essentially a rocker at the end of his career who is so jaded and "seen everything" he can't actually get emotionally invested in anything, no matter how incredibly bizarre or affecting. This is accompanied by the fact that he's also a military veteran and street merc who adds casual violence to massive amounts of drugs, sex, and alcohol. The definition of burnout. I actually could buy that Johnny might be feeling immense amount of emotions but is no longer capable of expressing them the way a normal person would.

So Keanu's monotone is actually something that works for me.

From that moment on, Panam, rogue, misty, whatever characters will just deal with a living copy.

I have a different perspective on this informed by the fact I was an epileptic as a child. Basically, V has a few minutes to live in the climax in that they are literally finally shutting down for the last time when they reach Mikoshi and upload themselves. That's when Alt Soulkills them and they become an Engram. The thing is, the Engram that replaces the "real" V is replacing one that was going to be dead 15 seconds later anyway and the interruption of consciousness is maybe a couple of minutes top.

Having had my own brain shut down a couple of times on me, the difference is immaterial.

The effect is less "cloning and replacing" and more "rebooting." Either for being an Engram or getting put in your recently deceased body.

 

[CannedPlayer]

That's when Alt Soulkills them and they become an Engram. The thing is, the Engram that replaces the "real" V is replacing one that was going to be dead 15 seconds later anyway and the interruption of consciousness is maybe a couple of minutes top.

We are made of our memories and way of thinking. During our life we change ourselves in ways that can alter ourselves completely. just a few things left from myself when i was 18, now im 45. So I´m a different person today, but still I´m the same person with my SOUL (if you believe that) as ever.

Alt is very clear during the voodoo boys mission that soul killer does what it intends to, and thats why it is called SOUL KILLER. She states that like cristal clear, leaving no room for interpretations. The software creates an engram based on the whole information you have, and kills you in the process (that´s why johhny said it was hell on earth due to the suffering he experienced in 2023 when the technology was in its early days). The cerebral activity remains intact because all these brains are one way or another dealing with cyber implants in the head, so its a very easy job for them, nothing special.

During that, IF YOU DONT GET UNPLUGGED (the machine is keeping you alive electronically), it is possible to implant whatever engram, and that engram (which can be replicated inside the network, which means no uniqueness anymore) will make use of the new body.

So what you get is a body commanded by an artificial inteligence.

To ensure my point, Saburo Arasaka was inserted into his son, thus killing him in the process, just like johhny over V, and yorinobu did that willingly. What we see is not the son mimicking the father, but the father´s AI taking full control over the son´s body. It is saburo inside now, WITHOUT A SOUL. And as all these 2077 bodies are so modified (adam has 90%+ cyber body, he even calls us humans), it is totally possible for an almost electronic brain to command a cyber body.

The soul is an element that cant be copied or digitized. It is unique in the universe. The game is clear on this aspect as no one questions if a soul can reside or be trapped in a digital world. Simply this argument doesnt exist.

That´s why I dont see V alive. For me his soul is gone. But the body that can receive an IA is there, ready to be reused.

It´s also stated in cyberpunk universe that they can use clones that last for 5 years best (i got that information on youtube, cyberpunk lore). So i dont know why they never mentioned that in the game. Probably because they wanted to get rid of V and keanu, because you cant have V without any contact with silvercrap after the whole journey, so they just forgot to say that and closed contract with keanu. ahahahaha

That´s why I questioned before: would you look at your girlfriend with the same eyes, knowing that her soul is gone, but still she´s 100% there?

Those who dont believe in soul will be ok with V getting back.

 

[TLeining]

Maybe most people hate this ending but it should be the canon ending, you have come to night city to make yourself a name, not to get a fiancee, and if you finish dont fear the reaper you get what you want, this is the core of the game

Really? Did V come to Night City for that or is it your interpretation?
I would have liked the opportunity to define V's reason for being in Night City, but it never happened.

And even in this ending, V has 6 months to live and goes on the suicide mission. How does that fit with the "core" of the game.

 

[CaptainMainwaring]

Man ragging on Refused is and calling them a screamo band from the middle of nowhere really destroys the credibility of the comment. Refused are an incredibly influential band in the punk genre post the 90s. Their album The Shape of Punk to Come was truly refreshing and innovative to the hardcore punk genre. I think they were 100% the perfect choice to be the musicians behind the fictional Samurai band. At least the one the CDPR built. The similarities between Samurai and Refused are staggering.

 

[yota71]

Really? Did V come to Night City for that or is it your interpretation?
I would have liked the opportunity to define V's reason for being in Night City, but it never happened.

And even in this ending, V has 6 months to live and goes on the suicide mission. How does that fit with the "core" of the game.

Its more fitting with a cyberpunk settings, more then live a live with the "loved one"