superbosses- how do they fit in a cyberpunk game?

[tropit9]

superbosses- how do they fit in a cyberpunk game?

cdpr had only one real suprboss thus far- the operator from the witcher 2. i'd like to see them expand on it on this massive open world game.

optional bosses that come to mind- a heavily augmented eurosolo with top equipment

a really heavy anti everything acpa.

an a.i controlled mecha

optinal encounters should be at the end of a really end game optional missons like:

infiltrating the araska off books r&d site.

robbing the major bank in night city (on that note thers should be at least two banks, the bank in mankind divided was awesome)

borrowing hardwere from the that top guarded joint militray base/police station

"acquiring" medical supllies from truma team main storage facilty.



i thing implanting those things not necessarily as main quest missons could really be awesome, if given the cdpr approach of high quality writing and branching.



what do you think about such ancounters and bosses?

 

[4meg]

'Boss' encounters are a little too side-scroller for a game like CP2077. In cyberpunk you need to watch your back at all times. Hobos are potentially as dangerous as any cyborg solo if they surprise you.

 

[Sirenapples]

I certainly hope there are legitimate boss moments.
Really highly augmented robots and cyborgs, all manner of mecha and vehicles of war and prototype unique machines you wouldn't actually see in mass.

Entire locations could also be a "Boss", it depends mostly on the weight they give the location and the way they describe it, and then the way they visually show it, and then the actual difficulty in assailing it.


If there's a good media sort of side quest it could be neat if you're a celebrity figure and you clash with other celebrity (or political) figures for Influence.


There are a lot of possibilities for robotic enemies, potentially lab-grown biological enemies, and vehicles. I'd be intensely disappointed if it's 90% generic human enemies (Albeit with varying degrees of augmentations and equipment).

 

[Sardukhar]

I really hope there are not. Tough fights, sure - but you could have to fight ACPA long before any combat "climax". Cyberpunk doesn't work that way. It's most lethal moments could come at any time, because video game convention makes no sense in any attempt at real-world combat replication.

 

[tropit9]

'Boss' encounters are a little too side-scroller for a game like CP2077. In cyberpunk you need to watch your back at all times. Hobos are potentially as dangerous as any cyborg solo if they surprise you.

I really hope there are not. Tough fights, sure - but you could have to fight ACPA long before any combat "climax". Cyberpunk doesn't work that way. It's most lethal moments could come at any time, because video game convention makes no sense in any attempt at real-world combat replication.

it does not have to be in the traditional order of the boss waiting at the end of the dungeon, but some fights are tougher than others, and some enemies are more lethal than others. also. this game is probably going to adapted to be more mainstreamy to a degree, like baldur's gate is not a d&d tabeltop.

 

[Sardukhar]

it does not have to be in the traditional order of the boss waiting at the end of the dungeon, but some fights are tougher than others, and some enemies are more lethal than others. also. this game is probably going to adapted to be more mainstreamy to a degree, like baldur's gate is not a d&d tabeltop.

Oh, bossfights are present in PnP lots, too. That's no excuse for their banal predictability.

The "it's not PnP" argument makes as much sense as when Hollywood makes a good book into a so so or crappy movie. "Movies aren't books".

Some ideas and conventions are mere tradition, not considered merit.

 

[Suhiira]

Some ideas and conventions are mere tradition, not considered merit.

Some?

A good many of the currently popular game design standards are tradition to the point they are forcibly shoehorned into games they have no business being in merely because they're demanded by a publisher or unsophisticated (that's the polite way to say stupid, right?) customer base.

 

[Sirenapples]

If a boss fight is predictable that is a problem with the developer, not with Boss Fights.


I feel like a game would be less for it if it did not include boss fights, as the world is made more shallow and more empty because of it. There absolutely would be high tier threats out there and as a player you are inherently likely to run into such enemies in various different lines of action jobs.

Why on earth would there not be any such threats in a world of far future brutal self improvement and corporate power?

Hell if I were a head of a corporation in that world managing robotics have crazy things built just to prove we could. Who knows what robotic menace we'd have in our basement undergoing whatever trials and testing, and who knows what similar projects other corporations might have going for them.

Even some random engineer in his father's inherited warehouse near the docks might be working on a pipe dream of their own and working on some AI companion that goes crazy when it witnesses its creator gunned down in an alley through his implants and seizes that weapon in the warehouse.

 

[Suhiira]

"Boss" fights imply a chain of combats leading to a final confrontation with the "power" behind it.

Perfect for say one per dungeon level in Doom or per mission in COD, but hardly "fits" in a CP2077 setting ... the "power" behind it is usually some dickless corp, hardly a satisfying combat opponent.

 

[Rawls]

I'd be fine with boss fights so long as they're like solo snipers, cyborg ninja lady, hacker who takes over your cyberware, or that sort of thing. Maybe a mech once or twice. Something like the Kayran doesn't really have a place in cyberpunk though. So I'd prefer not to have "bosses" in the classical sense like Dark Souls and side scrollers.

 

[tropit9]

I'd be fine with boss fights so long as they're like solo snipers, cyborg ninja lady, hacker who takes over your cyberware, or that sort of thing. Maybe a mech once or twice. Something like the Kayran doesn't really have a place in cyberpunk though. So I'd prefer not to have "bosses" in the classical sense like Dark Souls and side scrollers.

there's sort of a cyborg ninja lady boss in desu ex human revolution which can take 5 seconds or 15 minutes depending on how well you prepare. kayran was sort of a puzzle boss battle which i don't like so much. dark souls boss style deffinetly don't fit in this game, but optinal high stakes missons are a must, those kinds of mission are the real cyberpunk material, no?

i also liked the bosses in shadowrun but it is a fantasy mix... but some could fit in this game too!

 

[Meccanical]

I can definitely see cyberpsychos and highly skilled characters as "bosses".

 

[4meg]

I can definitely see cyberpsychos and highly skilled characters as "bosses".

 

[kofeiiniturpa]

Yeah, I would rather not see "boss battles" in this game in the same manner as in Deus Ex games or Alpha Protocol.

 

[Meccanical]

Instead of boss battle, it would probably be better to think of it in terms of challenges that need to be overcome via various means. I think we all want CP2077 to be a game that presents you with problems and tasks you with making your own solution, rather than funnel you into forced combat situations over and over again.

 

[Suhiira]

Yep, the LAST thing that fits into the mold CP2020 created is the ability to resolve problems with combat.
Yes, you may need to fight a bit during the problem resolution, but it's too deadly to be "the" solution. over the course of several encounters.

This is an "interesting" problem CDPR needs to face and somehow resolve.
A sizable percent of the CP2077 audience is going to expect to be able to shoot their way thru the game, those of us that know how CP2020 works (in terms of game mechanics) also know how totally incompatible such a play style is with the source material.
I look forward to seeing what CDPR comes up with, but I KNOW they can't possibly satisfy everyone as any resolution I can think of is inherently a polar opposite to one or the other expectation.

 

[tropit9]

Yep, the LAST thing that fits into the mold CP2020 created is the ability to resolve problems with combat.
Yes, you may need to fight a bit during the problem resolution, but it's too deadly to be "the" solution. over the course of several encounters.

This is an "interesting" problem CDPR needs to face and somehow resolve.
A sizable percent of the CP2077 audience is going to expect to be able to shoot their way thru the game, those of us that know how CP2020 works (in terms of game mechanics) also know how totally incompatible such a play style is with the source material.
I look forward to seeing what CDPR comes up with, but I KNOW they can't possibly satisfy everyone as any resolution I can think of is inherently a polar opposite to one or the other expectation.

fallout new vegas had a really good way of handaling quests. many diffrent soultions, and resolutions. not just many ways to do the exact same thing, but very open ended questing. intresting to see how well cdpr will handle this in a huge cyberpunk setting.

 

[Neuronin]

I view forced boss battles as an anachronism. However, there are extraordinary people in the world, and if you have a conflict of interest you'd likely have to face them.

A sizable percent of the CP2077 audience is going to expect to be able to shoot their way thru the game, those of us that know how CP2020 works (in terms of game mechanics) also know how totally incompatible such a play style is with the source material.

Yes, we have enough mindless FPS games out there.

 

[RLKing1969]

I tend to follow the "everyone is a potential threat" point of view. If the video game version is anything like the pnp game that came before, the combat system is bloody lethal enough. Still, provided it made sense and wasn't just thrown in as "character killing fodder", I wouldn't object to a psyched out full conversion 'borg or two to keep things interesting...And, in truth, THAT should be the biggest threat that players run across on a somewhat regular basis.

 

[Decatonkeil]

Instead of bosses than render your non-combat oriented character useless and feel tacked on... give us interesting diverse oposition. Sometimes it will be in the form of villains that are just written to be masterminds, and that's ok. As for who we physically fight, dodge or run away from? I hope there is a nice selection of important and weird characters with their own skills, gear and cyber, so as not have every human encounter blend together.

I already talked about how cool it would be if they randomized some aspects of every NPC: their role, gear, cybernetics, aspect and general personality/behavior... but truly exotic things should be less common and more reserved for something like "bosses" or important, memorable characters. Maybe bosses that use a very unusual choice of cyber, weapons and martial arts. And who also have some quirks. Like that monk guy Dolph Lundgren played in Johnny Mnemonic, or the Yakuza with the monomolecular wire.