The months and weeks before Release

[LexiiO]

The months and weeks before Release

There is one thing that crossed my mind today.

Yes, I know, the release of the game is still far away. Nonetheless, whatI thought about was: How do CDPR wantto make the world of Cyberpunk 2077 accessible to the players? It will be something new, since it is a new IP, and the world of the source material is a rich one full of lore. And that is what I want to talk about. If there's one thing I didn't like about The Witcher 2, it was how it just threw you into this world at the beginning, how very uncoordinated everything was.

Now, for a better understanding of what I mean, let me put it this way: There is the Cyberpunk genre and then there is Cyberpunk 2020 / 2077. 2020, while being a great PnP game, certainly is not the Opus Magnum of everything Cyberpunk. It's not like it's the bible of the genre. Cyberpunk is not a style of fashion or a trend - it's a mood, that has many faces to it. 2020 on the other hand, has a story, has lore, has characters, has events that happened in the past.

What I mean is: Not every fan of the Cyberpunk genre / movement, including me, can expect to just understand everything that happens in the game, especially not if events in the game are connected to events from the lore of the 2020 world. And even more than us people,who love the genre, but have never played the PnP game (And have no intentions to do so), there's the mere consumers on the video game market who don't know anything about the genre, or perhaps don't even know the term (" "Cyberpunk"? What's that?").

Now my question is: How should CDPR handle this? Through the medium of - what? Blogs, Making Ofs, Webisodes, something? Or nt at all?

Use the poll.

 

[Sardukhar]

2020, while being a great PnP game, certainly is not the Opus Magnum of everything Cyberpunk. It's not like it's the bible of the genre.

.

A. I wish I could ban you right now. BECAUSE I WOULD FOR YOUR HERETICAL BLASPHEMY. Tragically, the other mods are ruthlessly cruel to me when I'm out of line. I cry.

If CP2020 isn't the closest we have to a Cyberpunk Bible, with it's many, many references, footnotes, links, setting detail, parables and interactivity, what is? Neuromancer is the usual example, followed or preceded by Blade Runner for the less-than-literate, but those are the only other contenders and they have 1/10th the detail and depth of setting found in 2020.


B. Sigh. You have a point and I hope they have some approach, but it will probably be a combination of all the things you've mentioned. Thousands and thousands of us have played the PnP, thousands have played Shadowrun and thousands have played Deus Ex. Millions have read Neuromancer and seen Blade Runner. So there's that.

C. I'm not sure every fan should understand everything. Throwing you in at the deep end in Witcher was a deliberate decision, and they may do that again. There was tons of Witcher lore out there if you looked, though. At the time it was mostly seen as a DnD ripoff and people hopped into the NWN-origin engine expecting that. Not sure CDPR ever really spent a lot of effort making the setting more transparent.

D. What poll?

Edit E: I did try getting an interactive world setting for a shared-world PnP game going, but met little interest. I'll try again in a year or so when I have more time hopefully and interest is higher. Youtube video of a game could be cool, there is at least one of those out there already. Shirt stories, same. Maybe a daily blog of Life in 2076 for the year before release.

"Day 1. Raining again.
I realize I don't actually like my job very much. It's a hygiene issue - cutting up recovered bodies is messy work and a person gets to thinking about the sorts of manufactured weird shit found in the bloodstream of your average Night City citizen circa 2076."

Etc.

 

[LexiiO]

D. What poll?

That poll.

Also, you don't want to ban me. I am one of the nicest guys around here.

Send me a couple of digicopies of the rulebooks and I will gladly have a look at them. I cannot get my hands on any here where Ilive. Looks like no one publishes them in G right now.

 

[227]

I can't help but feel as though a puppet musical would be the most hilarious and random way of providing back story.

Say what you want, but you would remember that forever and ever.

 

[Sardukhar]

You misspelled "dictionary". Bet that's going to bug you now.

I'm not sure, "I don't care about other people" is accurate for Wisdom000, Redge, Chris, etc who have played the PnP, do care about other people and would love to tell you all about CP2020.

You can order pdf copies from drivethrurpg.

There are a host of links about CP in the FAQ, too. BUt I recognize that a central What Is Cyberpunk website or Blog or Interactive Thingy with Tweets would all be more coherent.

 

[LexiiO]

You misspelled "dictionary". Bet that's going to bug you now.

Not as much as seeing that you trolled my precious poll by clicking every option.

AMIRITE?!!

I can't help but feel as though a puppet musical would be the most hilarious and random way of providing back story.

Say what you want, but you would remember that forever and ever.

Yes, something like Sesame Street, only about Cyberpunk. I definately forgot to include that in the poll.

 

[227]

Yes, something like Sesame Street, only about Cyberpunk. I definately forgot to include that in the poll.

I adore you for engaging something so stupid.

Real answer: VTM:B did back story as well as I've seen. The Witcher games confused the hell out of me in the beginning, but I've only played VTM:B two times and I felt like I had a total grasp on what was happening despite that world also having quite a large amount of back story. I think the game's narrow-ish focus helped in that regard (I'd be surprised if 2077 doesn't have an equally narrow focus), as well as little stuff that made me search on wikis until my eyes glazed over. Little stuff like comments made about/by the kuei-jin and nagaraja.

 

[Suhiira]

There's really no way to prepare customers for a game based on pre-existing lore. Simply because for game balance, or sheer implementation difficulty/impossibility some things will be drastically different in a game then they are in the lore so you've already pissed off the purists and would confuse/annoy anyone that went out of their way to study the lore because your game doesn't follow it.
That and let's face it ... 90% of gamers are lazy, and if "FuK U n00b" is any indication semi-illiterate, so not only don't they know for the most part they don't care about the lore. Is the game fun to play? Can they kill everyone in sight? Is terrain destructible? THESE are "important", don't force me to waste my time flipping thru lore!

 

[Sardukhar]

Is the game fun to play? Can they kill everyone in sight? Is terrain destructible? THESE are "important", don't force me to waste my time flipping thru lore!

And? IS terrain destructible? WELL?


Also, I didn't click every choice in your poll, just three I liked. So there.


Add in the puppet show option, though. Because rockin.

 

[LexiiO]

let's face it ... 90% of gamers are lazy, and if "FuK U n00b" is any indication semi-illiterate, so not only don't they know for the most part they don't care about the lore. Is the game fun to play? Can they kill everyone in sight? Is terrain destructible? THESE are "important", don't force me to waste my time flipping thru lore!

Well, I am certainly part of the other 10%.

 

[Sardukhar]

Well, I am certainly part of the other 10%.

Suuuure you are! So get researching about CP2020 and not yelling at CDPR to do it for you. Because, you never know, we might just play some day and you'll need to know why Low-impedance cables are a good idea and that the Iron Sights are pretty much run by Arasaka.

Edit: I found this: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/50354/Cyberpunk-2020-The-Second-Edition-Version-201 for $16.

And a podcast for easy listening: http://cyberpunksaturdays.com/page/3/

I'm going to have to start some kind of condensed What Is Cyberpunk 2020 thread, maybe. With images and bulletpoints.

 

[LexiiO]

Suuuure you are! So get researching about CP2020 and not yelling at CDPR to do it for you.

IS IT MY FAULT THAT THE FUDGING CP2020 WIKI IS NOTHING BUT A PILE OF STUBS??!!1 1 11

Not all of us are rich Corps who can afford all the rulebooks, Sard... Well, I am, but THAT IS NOT THE POINT!!!

I'm going to have to start some kind of condensed What Is Cyberpunk 2020 thread, maybe. With images and bulletpoints.

Dew eet.

 

[braindancer12]

when i first saw the thread i thought: " Oh a poll...looks like Sard made a new thread...." i was so wrong......

Its a good question, of how CD should handle this, probably a little bit early.....but we have a lot of time till the game comes out so......lets talk about it...

A nice way would be information videos, which explain the background further, and Mike himself should do them (just because of his voice)

 

[vongo.859]

Well, I'm semi-literate and I don't like reading, so I wouldn't mind some pre-release videos about the setting. Maybe a short "in the life of" CG mini-series following one random character of each "class". The videos could be about 5-10 minutes tops so my squirrel brain doesn't get distracted. Though, if it detracts from the development of the game, which I imagine it would, than I could do without...

I do like braindancer's idea for Mike Pondsmith narrating informative videos about the setting. Hell, I suppose I wouldn't be against reading either...

 

[Poet_and_Gentleman.598]

How about this:

Make it self-contained, screw the paraphernalia.

You know why Star wars pre-quels were crap? Same with Matrix 2?

Because for it to make sense you were supposed to play the goddamned video games and see the animated series and then read the novel and so on and so forth

 

[LexiiO]

How about this:

Make it self-contained, screw the paraphernalia.

I love this.

 

[Sardukhar]

How about this:

Make it self-contained, screw the paraphernalia.

You know why Star wars pre-quels were crap? Same with Matrix 2?

Because for it to make sense you were supposed to play the goddamned video games and see the animated series and then read the novel and so on and so forth

Okay, I'm not sure what you mean by this? Make it so you can just play the game without reading the PnP? I'm sure that will be the case - it was for the Witcher. I read the background material after I played Witcher 1 and it was great. Made Witcher 2 even better to know the setting, though.

Your argument is pretty poor. Matrix sequels and SW prequels had many problems, many more than an encumbering storyline. Empire Strikes Back, generally judged the finest of the movies, depended MASSIVELY on Star Wars lore from the first movie. Motives, plot developments, character arcs, nearly all started in the first movie.

Matrix 2 made sense without the video games - I had no problem comprehending it at all. Star Wars ESB made very little sense if you hadn't watched the first movie, read the book or comics or something.

Witcher 2 was excellent and it very much was rooted in Witcher 1 and Witcher lore.

Vampire Bloodlines was fairly self-contained and it was great, but it was even better if you knew the setting and rules. I expect the same for Cyberpunk.

I love this.

So, you don't think they should draw on the Cyberpunk 2020 setting? Or...what?

 

[kanonite]

Id be fine with being dropped right in and asked to figure out lore by myself. Webisodes and interactive things pre-release seem good too.

 

[vongo.859]

Id be fine with being dropped right in and asked to figure lore out by myself.

I wouldn't object to that if they did it very well. It sounds like CDPR might get some experience with explaining the setting early on for Witcher 3, but I'll need to see how it's done before I agree with them doing the same in CP2077. My problem with games that just drop you in (ones that have extensive background information, at least), is that I spend so many hours talking to NPCs and doing minor quest lines, just to fully understand the setting, that the main story is put on the back-burner. I don't like using things like Wikis on my first playthrough of games because of potential spoilers.

 

[Sardukhar]

My problem with games that just drop you in (ones that have extensive background information, at least), is that I spend so many hours talking to NPCs and doing minor quest lines, just to fully understand the setting, that the main story is put on the back-burner. I don't like using things like Wikis on my first playthrough of games because of potential spoilers.

Now this is an excellent point and a good follow-up to what Oedo was saying - properly done, the game should immerse and explain the setting to you.

Each new facet - corporate control, Trauma Teams, C-SWAT, Netrunning - should come naturally and easily, without feeling like a tutorial, as you continue along what you only later realise are plot-significant quests and sidequests.

Bloodlines did have a tutorial section for the game mechanics, but it was optional.

Anyway, steady immersion, not too much, feels natural, no Wiki needed - these are solid goals. Perhaps this was what Poet meant by no peripherals?