The Purpose of CA Spies: Cantarella, Frightener, Thaler, Udalryk and Yaevinn

[darkheath]

Who uses Yaevinn...

... and why?

Giving up 12 points is kind of hard to swallow, especially when he only brings one card back to your side. It seems the highest spy in the original Gwent was a NG guy rated "9"... but didn't he at least bring back two cards? The strategy then was to give up points for a card advantage (which is pretty important in this game). But a one-for-one trade for Yaevinn AND giving up 12 points seems ludicrous. Am I missing some wonderful strategy?

 

[pl91]

well he guarantees to let you choose a spell,not just 2 random cards.this means that he allows you to fish for something specific in your deck.thats why he has more strength than other spies.

 

[darkheath]

I understand that... except, not many spells are worth 12 points. At least early on they're not. I'm not familiar with any legendary cards that may be worth more than that.

 

[Firekangaroo]

Spies in Witcher 3 Gwent were extremely overpowered. Yaevinn still grants card advantage because he gets replaced by the card you draw. This can actually be worth more than 12 power. Gwent is a best of 3 game; if you win round 1, your opponent has to play cards in round 2 until you pass. This is a great time to play a spy like yaevinn because you don't lose a card for round 3. Card advantage is also important to get the last play in the game for potential swing cards.
Spies are also good to slow down tempo in a match.

 

[Rawls]

I have him in my main deck. Very useful for card advantage which can be crucial for ST control decks.

 

[darkheath]

Trust me, I know how the rounds work. I'm a huge proponent of Strategic Conceding in this game. And I guess the 12 points are meaningless if you already know you're going to concede. But it seems the risk lies in the instance that you may be in a position to win a round you didn't count on, but stuck with a card that gives 12 points to the other side. That almost happened to me in this last ST challenge to get the dwarf leader card. Luckily I had one of those cavalry units that let you redraw a mulligan and I was able to get rid of Yaevinn and finally won (on my 3rd try, heh).

Seems there are plenty of other cards that spawn/summon cards from the deck without being so generous.

 

[4RM3D]

The Purpose of CA Spies: Cantarella, Frightener, Thaler, Udalryk and Yaevinn

Card advantage (CA) is a term that indicates that someone has more cards in their hand than their opponent. If you can maintain CA, then you have the last say in things, which can be the difference between a lose or a win. Imagine a very simple example when round three starts and both players only have one card, the one has Peter (to reset a unit) the other has a buffed Protector. If you have to go first with Peter, you'll lose.

The CA Spies gives your opponent a strong body on the board, but you will gain one card back into your hand, essentially skipping a turn. A few cases where CA Spies are useful:
- When you have won round 1, you can use the CA Spy to extend round 2.
- When you have a very big lead on your opponent and you don't want to pass.
- When you have a strong removal card in hand (e.g. Scorch, Igni) and want to bait the opponent into passing.
- When you want to disrupt the opponent's unit that gives adjacent units a (de)buff, e.g. Vran Warrior.

Noteworthy combos:
- Thaler + Dun Banner Light Cavalry
- Cantarella + Menno Coehoorn (or just any card that triggers with spies)
- Frightener + Geralt Igni (row alignment)

Related side note: Ciri is also an interesting example of gaining Card Advantage. When you lose the round you'll get Ciri back, if you were also one card ahead, that means you have a 2 card lead in round 2.

(I've merged the other threads into one because the same answer is given in each of them.)

 

[Skywalkerpl]

Is Frightener overpriced/borderline useless?





I have it in my weather deck for quite a while and so far only once I was in a situation when playing it was actually useful.

For giving enemy 10 power you gain 1 card draw + RNG push of the enemy cards in other rows. So its definitely a late-round card, one of the last you'll be playing, ideally in a round 3 or at least 2nd round if you want to end the game there.

Now, in an ideal world you'd have something like 2xFrost + Nithral deployed before playing it, on a rows to which enemy units are supposed to go, then perhaps in 1 or 2 turns it will pay back its costs. Assuming enemy doesn't have anything like Clear Skies or Nauzicaa Standard Bearer...

In reality though you deploy your weather in rows where enemy already has most of the cards, so he has to play something like Sheldon Skaggs and even then basically it counters only Frost, as Rain and Fog still remain viable on Skagg's row.

And yea... if we're on a topic of Rain and Fog - if you scare enemy units into one of rows with either of them it takes 5 turns to pay back its cost...

Not to mention that there's Jotunn...

TL;DR: Frightener just seems so awfully situational combined with being an awfully RNG card... you really have to pray that this card draw gives you something amazingly useful (eg. Commander's Horn and not something that's not particularly playable due to depleted deck...) or game lasts enough turns and RNG machine throws opponents into just the right rows to make that cost of 10 bearable...

What do you think? Should Frightener's cost be decreased? IMHO it should go down to 7 (2 cards under rain/fog for 4 turns to be profitable) OR card draw mechanic should be changed to The Last Wish (Draw 2 cards. Play 1 and shuffle the other back.)

 

[MrRagdoll]

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/foru...tarella-frightener-thaler-udalryk-and-yaevinn

I assume this post will be merged soon. I did think the same way as you but after reading some answers I found use for him.

 

[Skywalkerpl]

Yea, the only 2 times I found it useful was biting into damage card. Than again - very situational, even pulling this + damage card in weather deck is not exactly a commonplace, yet alone being in a situation where it would help you secure a win. In non-weather decks biting for card advantage with Frightener is easier, but again: then you give up whatever advantage you had from pushing the cards around. So I didn't even bother to mention it.

 

[MrRagdoll]

I mainly use it on instant +15 frog, Ge'el can pull on same turn gold into hand with this card, if I'm leading clearly but dont want to pass or to move away unit that is getting buffed on that spesific spot because of ability.
It has plenty of uses that aren't situational, it's simply how you use it.

 

[devivre]

Like all other Spys of this type it's a great card and can grant you card advantage or force the opponent to waste more cards - but sure, you need to be careful when to play it. It's definitely a good idea to have Giant Toad in your deck or the overpowered Kayran. Just in case things don't go as planned.

Decreasing its cost is not a good idea.

 

[Michelazz]

I use it on karayan most of the times for a 28 strength gold card in round 3 . If i won round 1 and want to pass round 2 and dont have karayan in hand or cant bring it with geels i play it, draw a card and force my opponent to play another card as he cant pass before me so i can gain CA from it. Very useful if you know how to play it.

 

[soph912]

It's not overpriced. Cantarella has the same price and Frightener has even some ability.

Priscilla is overpriced for example. Got her yesterday in a keg and she seems to be a complete waste of 800 Ores if you ask me. Any neutral gold card is better in a NR deck.

 

[Esmer]

Frightener is worse than other spies since you don't get to choose a card you draw.

However, it still gives you card advantage and because of that it's a very good card. You can also try to push the enemy units into the weather row from a row that has no weather.

 

[Alts-Gamer]

Trust me, I know how the rounds work. I'm a huge proponent of strategic conceding in this game. And I guess the 12 points are meaningless if you already know you're going to concede. But it seems the risk lies in the instance that you may be in a position to win a round you didn't count on, but stuck with a card that gives 12 points to the other side. That almost happened to me in this last ST challenge to get the dwarf leader card. Luckily I had one of those cavalry units that let you redraw a mulligan and I was able to get rid of Yaevinn and finally won (on my 3rd try, heh).
Seems there are plenty of other cards that spawn/summon cards from the deck without being so generous.

This card is useful if you are able to win round 1 and dictate your opponent how the game will go further. So, round 2 started and you play this card. Yeah you gave your opponent some power but you do not intend to win this round. Your job is to make your opponent lose as much power and as many cards as possible. You play this spy, you play Ciri that will return to your hand, you can start with Ocvist if you have it. As a result in round 2 you will have 3 more cards than your opponent (unless he plays some of these too).
This is a specific card that is used when you clearly intend to lose a round. If you always go for 2-0 this is not what you are looking for.

 

[darkheath]

You guys are not reading what I'm saying.. and you're mentioning cards that I have no idea what they look like. I haven't seen the new Ciri cards yet nor do I know what is an Ocvist. I certainly am NOT one who tries for 2-0 wins all the time. As a matter of fact, I probably concede round ONE about half of the time if I see that he's already played cards that I don't want to deal with later in the game. So seriously, stop thinking I'm some kind of RUSH player.

Now, last night I finally got through the six ST Challenge missions. In the LAST one, the one where you're playing to win the Dwarf Leader (forgot his name) the game always starts off with a 19 point opening play. I didn't want to deal with that so I just dropped Yaevinn, collected my "free" card, and conceded. Since he was already up 31-0, he DIDN'T have to waste a card, so he quit with the victory... as he should.

Now I ask, how is that different if I didn't have Yaevinn... I concede 19-0 (two of those cards were gold and I had no shackles, so I didn't want to deal with them) but still have my extra card in my hand anyway? I still have my card advantage because I didn't play anything. What's the difference?

Or... perhaps I KNOW he's going to go with that initial 19 point outlay, but I'M going first. Knowing I want to concede round one, I drop Yaevinn and his 12 points on his side. His smart move is to save his Power Play for round 2... and now make it so I have to beat my own 12 points.

Trust me, I understand the IDEA behind the spies, I just think that the 12 points (and even the 9 from that NG guy in the original deck) is a bit high. Actually, from a little research, (in THIS very thread, BTW) ... it seems that Yaevinn was "nerfed" a bit since the Closed Beta. Apparently in his previous iteration, he at least caused some damage on the other side before lending his 12 points. Why do you think THAT was changed. To what advantage?

 

[4RM3D]

darkheath

In open beta, CA spies have been equalized across factions, with only minor differences pertaining to that faction's strength. A CA spy can be a dead card when you are not presented an opening to use it. This holds through for a lot of cards, including the all-purpose card, Decoy.

I'll reiterate my OP statement. CA spies are useful when:

- you won round 1, you can use the CA Spy to extend round 2.
- you have a very big lead on your opponent and you don't want to pass.
- you have a strong removal card in hand (e.g. Scorch, Igni) and want to bait the opponent into passing.

 

[darkheath]

What is "CA"?

And I definitely like #3 that you've listed. With scorch, that would be pretty cool.

 

[4RM3D]

darkheath

That was the first thing I've mentioned in my OP.

Card advantage (CA) is a term that indicates that someone has more cards in their hand than their opponent. If you can maintain CA, then you have the last say in things, which can be the difference between a lose or a win. Imagine a very simple example when round three starts and both players only have one card, the one has Peter (to reset a unit) the other has a buffed Protector. If you have to go first with Peter, you'll lose.