I agree with you buddy, i still love CDPR because it's the first time they disappointed me, so i will let it slide. Unless they abandon this game completely in few months.
Hacking. But, it's too weak when you face multiple opponents. So GTA again
Yep. I just whip out the assault rifle, and then BAM BAM BAM
maybe toss a nade or two.
I hope CDPR take some notes from this thread, its the nail on the head for me
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here is hoping mate, the foundation is indeed there but alot of whats missing is extremely difficult to implement unfortunately.
Mate that is the exact purpose of threads like these. its well known that CDPR read the forums and the reddit so I'm hoping threads like this on these open forums are in fact read and hopefully have some, even if a little influence, in how future events play out.
Just hopefully not like in game where the things you do don't really matter..
Except that "whatever you want to be" in Skyrim makes no difference, because it's all in your head. Skyrim is a good sanbox, but it's a terrible RPG. Dialogues choices suck, quest design is terrible and there are really no choices and consequences. If anything, the gold standard is Fallout New Vegas, not Skyrim
ehh then we have difference of opinion but i will agree New Vegas is terrific indeed in that respect.
There's some genuine validity to this take but even so, the experience is still there with Skyrim and maybe the fact that it largely takes place in your head is even more impressive to a certain extent because the game allows your imagination to take part in the world where as games like CP2077 basically tell you to sit down and shut up. I loved Fallout pre Bethesda and Fallout 2 for me is one of the best games I ever played and in my opinion remains quality to his day. I love New Vegas too.
The Witcher 3 has choices and consequences. It also didn't have 3 different origins that didn't change one thing in the game.
To be fair, they design such games (Fallout series included) to be just that from the get go, to give the player a sandbox and many options in it. The great modding support thanks to both the engine and developer sponsored modding tools and content expanding DLCs always immensively help.
I like to think the sole reason I go back to those games, however, is modding. Modding allows what developers couldn't decide to add for style / design reasons or due to time constraints. It's basically allowing you to further tailor the game the way you want it. That's a huge plus.
If Cyberpunk sees just somewhat similar support, lots of magic can be done. Question is: Is the engine mod friendly, will the devs provide a toolkit?
So far, I saw this however, as possible alternative: https://forums.cdprojektred.com/ind...7-modding-support-for-the-wolvenkit.11040077/
No.
It doesn’t feel or play like one for largely the same reasons as Cyberpunk here.
Very true and will look into it.
for what its worth the devs made an open pole asking if the public wanted mod support. over 95% said yes. here is hoping
As a person who hasn't bought a video game in over a decade and bought into the hype, I thank you for this post. I was told by my gaming veteran friends that this in fact would be it. Unfortunately, even I, an amateur can tell that this is a shallow shell of what was intended.
With that being said, I find this to be an extremely addictive experience - and I even enjoy the story. However it just leaves you wanting more. I was told to try The Witcher, Red Dead, or Skyrim. However, it was the Cyberpunk theme which hooked me. I just am not interested in killing vampires, dragons, or riding a horse....All great games though.
All good bro. i just figured it would be good for others to know they arent alone (definitely not alone now ive realised) in feeling this way towards a game many of us have looked forward to for quite some time, with many of us still keeping expectations within reasonable standards of the average RPG. This game simply didnt meet them.
ive got 50 hours myself as you probably know from the post, however tonight i simply just couldnt get motivated to play it. simply disappointing and disheartening for someone that took almost 2 weeks of paid vacation from work to enjoy what was promoted as a game with vast replayability. all in all its a good bit of fun... but thats really it.
Thank you for stating this, there was another post we were talking about the immersion aspects of the game missing while others were complaining about the BUGS which yeah sure there are bugs but eventually they'll be fixed. In this post we were really upset with the lack of features like animations, proper combat, parking spots etc.
Lets Talk Immersion
Lets Talk Immersion
Yeah this is what I was looking for someone to say rather than complaining about the bugs, like yes there are bugs, they'll work on them. The features are what I was worried about in the game, being able to sit down anywhere, looking in the glove compartment of the car, having the car break down, V talking to themself when walking down the street or driving, putting the window down, pedal animations when driving vehicle or honking, actually being able to talk to npcs and not have them look at you like an idiot. EATING and DRINKING animations are a must but I guess not apparently. I struggle very much finding any damn parking in this shithole of a city, yeah my car can find me but I wanna find my car like old times if traffic is too heavy everywhere. I wish there were more weapon animations, like pressing R would make you check the cylinder of a revolver and spin it.
Exactly why threads like these need to be made and need to gain traction. after the bugs are all said and squashed, the underlying issues of core mechanics and RPG elements will still remain broken and non-existent. always happy to bring more of these forward.
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Other things to add
* No Illuminated Tattoos
* No Wanted system as discribed in article with corrupt please and "powerful people" coming after you
* Garbage gore system - shoot someone in the head and the lose half their stomach
* Very little (if any in some cases) cases of actual Acid Rain???
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Idk why the OP is getting hate from anyone. He's not wrong. I've got somewhere between 30-40 hours myself in the game and it really is bare bones. Feels like the only people that are hating on him are blind fanboys. I am not one of those. I am not a hater or skeptic or whatever you want to label me. And I'm not a fanboy. Im someone who's played a lot of video games of all types, for a long time. Ive followed the game and haven't necessarily "leaned" one way or another before purchasing it.
To start, I'll give some good things I've enjoyed bc I dont mean for my post to just be a bash. Like I said, don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed it so far and some of the characters are enjoyable and the story has been interesting enough plus character development that makes you care about some of them. I run it on PC and while yes glitchy and buggy, can look great when it runs well. The city feels full and bustling. And there is some interesting concepts at work that can be engaging enough and things not seen before and even thought provoking.
However outside of the story missions, the side quests can be lack luster. Many of them are rinse and repeat no matter who they come from. And I think they do this to fill out a game who's main campaign is somewhat short.
The police are there to shoot you in the face if you screw up and hang around but can't be bothered to give chase. Really? Outside of vendors the regular populace could care less about you. They've got no where to go, nothing interesting to say and little in variance of reaction to you and your actions. Games like GTA, RDR2 and even some of the latest AC games you can stumble across all sorts of funny and interesting characters. CP77 they literally just wonder like ants, or zombies.
Some of the mechanics and features are just like "What were you thinking or what have you been doing all this time?" Character customization, yeah isn't the best and I can deal with that but it is lacking honestly. There is no customization. None. "RPG" or not, the game was supposedly going to be immersive with plenty to do, new concepts and variety. But none of these things have been fleshed out at all. There's no character, vehicle, clothing customization. It's all just "it is what it is." Bland.
Playing on pc if you double tap a key, you dodge. Is it just me but is anyone else having trouble with that crap happening while trying to sneak? Trying to creep around and suddenly lunge forward or sideways into someone or into the open with your dick in your hand? Incredibly annoying, especially for a stealth system.
And speaking of stealth, you can build into a kind of throwing blade specialization, but kiss that blade goodbye. There's no pulling it out of a body or of the ground. Dumb. What a way to waste or blow that. Pretty much makes the skill useless for the most part. They've got a good array of things to spec into but things like that make it feel unimpressive or weak so its like whats the point.
And gear system. Besides not being able to customize its looks, is bland in variety due to its lack of skill, perk, stat influence. There's some ways to mod it to give a little more towards stats you want but thats it. Nothing really stands out. Nothing plays a big or determine factor in how your character plays. Its just... there. The biggest reason to look for new gear is upping your armor level. Even upgrading items does little to change or improve outside of adding to its armor. And before you come at me like "its not a looter shooter" then why put it in the game? You wasted time on it when you could have put forth that effort into making the gear customizable with color or variety.
Look, I could go on and on, and I'm reiterating some of the points the OP made just so he's got someone else in his corner. The game and its story has some cool shit. But that doesn't last, and the newness wears off. Everything else has been a smattering of all aspects from other games that people liked, but half assed or mediocre. And not only is it mediocre, but its buggy as hell. There's glitches all over. How many times or how long was the game delayed? How long was the game in development? And I'd say half, if not more, is redone mediocrity.
Like I said, I've enjoyed the game and I will continue to play and hope CDPR can do something to breathe life into the game or flesh out some of these underworked concepts. And the PC community has not disappointed and has already begun putting out mods. So maybe they'll have some fixes or features to add in that should have been there already. But lets face it. The game has some cool stuff but was overhyped and it's mediocre. "It is what it is."
To start, I'll give some good things I've enjoyed bc I dont mean for my post to just be a bash. Like I said, don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed it so far and some of the characters are enjoyable and the story has been interesting enough plus character development that makes you care about some of them. I run it on PC and while yes glitchy and buggy, can look great when it runs well. The city feels full and bustling. And there is some interesting concepts at work that can be engaging enough and things not seen before and even thought provoking.
However outside of the story missions, the side quests can be lack luster. Many of them are rinse and repeat no matter who they come from. And I think they do this to fill out a game who's main campaign is somewhat short.
The police are there to shoot you in the face if you screw up and hang around but can't be bothered to give chase. Really? Outside of vendors the regular populace could care less about you. They've got no where to go, nothing interesting to say and little in variance of reaction to you and your actions. Games like GTA, RDR2 and even some of the latest AC games you can stumble across all sorts of funny and interesting characters. CP77 they literally just wonder like ants, or zombies.
Some of the mechanics and features are just like "What were you thinking or what have you been doing all this time?" Character customization, yeah isn't the best and I can deal with that but it is lacking honestly. There is no customization. None. "RPG" or not, the game was supposedly going to be immersive with plenty to do, new concepts and variety. But none of these things have been fleshed out at all. There's no character, vehicle, clothing customization. It's all just "it is what it is." Bland.
Playing on pc if you double tap a key, you dodge. Is it just me but is anyone else having trouble with that crap happening while trying to sneak? Trying to creep around and suddenly lunge forward or sideways into someone or into the open with your dick in your hand? Incredibly annoying, especially for a stealth system.
And speaking of stealth, you can build into a kind of throwing blade specialization, but kiss that blade goodbye. There's no pulling it out of a body or of the ground. Dumb. What a way to waste or blow that. Pretty much makes the skill useless for the most part. They've got a good array of things to spec into but things like that make it feel unimpressive or weak so its like whats the point.
And gear system. Besides not being able to customize its looks, is bland in variety due to its lack of skill, perk, stat influence. There's some ways to mod it to give a little more towards stats you want but thats it. Nothing really stands out. Nothing plays a big or determine factor in how your character plays. Its just... there. The biggest reason to look for new gear is upping your armor level. Even upgrading items does little to change or improve outside of adding to its armor. And before you come at me like "its not a looter shooter" then why put it in the game? You wasted time on it when you could have put forth that effort into making the gear customizable with color or variety.
Look, I could go on and on, and I'm reiterating some of the points the OP made just so he's got someone else in his corner. The game and its story has some cool shit. But that doesn't last, and the newness wears off. Everything else has been a smattering of all aspects from other games that people liked, but half assed or mediocre. And not only is it mediocre, but its buggy as hell. There's glitches all over. How many times or how long was the game delayed? How long was the game in development? And I'd say half, if not more, is redone mediocrity.
Like I said, I've enjoyed the game and I will continue to play and hope CDPR can do something to breathe life into the game or flesh out some of these underworked concepts. And the PC community has not disappointed and has already begun putting out mods. So maybe they'll have some fixes or features to add in that should have been there already. But lets face it. The game has some cool stuff but was overhyped and it's mediocre. "It is what it is."
I would consider The Witcher 3 an RPG, but not "first and foremost" an RPG. It's an Action Adventure with RPG elements (Witcher 1 on the other hand was more of an RPG).
But to all those "defending" Cyberpunk 2077 by arguing about the semantics of what makes for a real RPG and about how many romance options you had in Dragon Age and Mass Effect....
I think the main point is again not the quantity, but also the quality. Do you ever get the chance to meet your romance partners for some dinner or fun games if you want to? Are you ever able to do interactive and immersive things in the city outside of the missions? How is the quality of the loot system, drops and progression? Is crafting useful and are decent items obtainable through crafting? How much can I customize MY V? Can I define my V as a character? Those are RPG elements that were more or less promised and implied throughout the marketing. Lets move away from the RPG term tho.
This is about setting up expectations, and not even unrealistic ones. A little attention to detail, an interactive world, immersive NPC interactions, a focus on style and customization. This game originally was marketed as "first and foremost an RPG", V was marketed as a character the player could define and make their own (like in an RPG), there is a lot of things that the marketing suggested or right-out confirmed in earlier years but then didn't include.
And if you have a big Open World, and you call your game an Open World game, the expectation, especially if its a game that draws heavy inspiration from game worlds like GTA, RDR, Yakuza - which it does in the way the game is designed, and in the fact that its a game in the open world genre, and that the developers pride themselves on NOT being someone like Ubisoft that clutter the gameworld with useless checkmarks but have a city that feels alive - then you need to at least have a similar scope and quality as those games.
Both RDR2 and GTAV - which are NOT RPGs ! - have more customization in the game (barbers, apartments to buy, stuff to customize, etc, etc), a better traffic/car A.I., better NPC reactions to your actions (very important for immersion), better Police and Wanted systems (very important for a believable world, esp. since the NCPD are very prominently featured and mentioned in the story). Games like Fallout or Skyrim (which are more of the classic RPG) are decades old and have reputation systems with different factions, karma systems, consequences for your actions (I shoot an innocent bystander - people will dislike that, systems might remember that in some games. not in CP. Police will insta-spawn behind you but stop chasing you and forget completely that you did anything after 200 m).
I think the point is not that anybody wants to argue what makes a true RPG, even if some of those points of what SHOULD be in an RPG are VALID, and at least some of the mentioned things should be in every RPG, even if NOT ALL of them obviously. But the point is there are certain expectations - not in the least overblown or unrealistic ones - that come with the genres that they heavily marketed (Open World, RPG), the material they showed and promised, the things they heavily implied on top of that - that ultimately weren't included or fell incredibly short. And in a lot of ways these things not being in the game can kill the immersion in an individual situation. And that might not be horrible for 1 or 2 moments in the game. But if a game constantly subverts my expectations (negatively) and constantly pulls me OUT of the immersion by not including ANY of these mentioned points. If there is always that one thing that is not present in the game or doesn't work in a believable way, then the end result is that the sum of all those shortcomings will add up to an overall less immersive and enjoyable exeprience, even if the main story and side missions are good and solid.
But to all those "defending" Cyberpunk 2077 by arguing about the semantics of what makes for a real RPG and about how many romance options you had in Dragon Age and Mass Effect....
I think the main point is again not the quantity, but also the quality. Do you ever get the chance to meet your romance partners for some dinner or fun games if you want to? Are you ever able to do interactive and immersive things in the city outside of the missions? How is the quality of the loot system, drops and progression? Is crafting useful and are decent items obtainable through crafting? How much can I customize MY V? Can I define my V as a character? Those are RPG elements that were more or less promised and implied throughout the marketing. Lets move away from the RPG term tho.
This is about setting up expectations, and not even unrealistic ones. A little attention to detail, an interactive world, immersive NPC interactions, a focus on style and customization. This game originally was marketed as "first and foremost an RPG", V was marketed as a character the player could define and make their own (like in an RPG), there is a lot of things that the marketing suggested or right-out confirmed in earlier years but then didn't include.
And if you have a big Open World, and you call your game an Open World game, the expectation, especially if its a game that draws heavy inspiration from game worlds like GTA, RDR, Yakuza - which it does in the way the game is designed, and in the fact that its a game in the open world genre, and that the developers pride themselves on NOT being someone like Ubisoft that clutter the gameworld with useless checkmarks but have a city that feels alive - then you need to at least have a similar scope and quality as those games.
Both RDR2 and GTAV - which are NOT RPGs ! - have more customization in the game (barbers, apartments to buy, stuff to customize, etc, etc), a better traffic/car A.I., better NPC reactions to your actions (very important for immersion), better Police and Wanted systems (very important for a believable world, esp. since the NCPD are very prominently featured and mentioned in the story). Games like Fallout or Skyrim (which are more of the classic RPG) are decades old and have reputation systems with different factions, karma systems, consequences for your actions (I shoot an innocent bystander - people will dislike that, systems might remember that in some games. not in CP. Police will insta-spawn behind you but stop chasing you and forget completely that you did anything after 200 m).
I think the point is not that anybody wants to argue what makes a true RPG, even if some of those points of what SHOULD be in an RPG are VALID, and at least some of the mentioned things should be in every RPG, even if NOT ALL of them obviously. But the point is there are certain expectations - not in the least overblown or unrealistic ones - that come with the genres that they heavily marketed (Open World, RPG), the material they showed and promised, the things they heavily implied on top of that - that ultimately weren't included or fell incredibly short. And in a lot of ways these things not being in the game can kill the immersion in an individual situation. And that might not be horrible for 1 or 2 moments in the game. But if a game constantly subverts my expectations (negatively) and constantly pulls me OUT of the immersion by not including ANY of these mentioned points. If there is always that one thing that is not present in the game or doesn't work in a believable way, then the end result is that the sum of all those shortcomings will add up to an overall less immersive and enjoyable exeprience, even if the main story and side missions are good and solid.
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Appreciate the response mate, but dont stress too much, 95% if not more here also agree with us. all your points are also valid, ive experiened them and could have added them to the OG post but just cant think of everything off the top of my head which speaks for the state of this train wreck, one that i really didnt want to be.
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another excellent post highlighting some important points, even games that aren't true RPG's have more immersive and basic RPG elements and features that this apparent "First and foremost, an RPG" does not.
end of the day. some of those basics just aren't here and bugs aside. it just ruins the experience and immersion.