This scorch/damage chaining meta prevents all creative combos.

[Shadow-Stalker]

No, they are giving cards a cost.
For instance poor infantry could be worth 2, while gigni/villen could be worth 30.

Max points per deck is 120 for instance. and you build your deck based on your resources.
I think that can work great.

Which is basically a fancy tactic of forcing a point cap on decks. It is literally just changing the speed limit from 30mph to 48kph because the number is bigger.

"But there is no card count limit anymore either. You just have to use a certain amount of points until you run out of card spaces. You have 250 points and each card spends 10 points. No card limit though! Ha-ha-ha we unnecessarily revolutionized it again, look at all the identity we regained by doing so!"

 

[time_drainer]

I consider Scorch as one of the skill cards, where it actually takes some effort and thinking both playing with and against. And multi-Scorch is viable strategy that works great against some decks, and not so much against others. It's a struggle of trying to align/disalign units and making sub-optimal plays just so you can hold onto your big units / Scorch effects until someone budges. Hell, it's one of the few matches where playing your CA Spy in the right time actually takes a tiny bit of skill.

Sure it can be pretty hard on some decks, but if you add some tools to be able to play around scorches and learn to use them properly you can win.

In another deck NG I have both Spotter that the Viper Witcher. 50% of games I win, lose 50%. Often do not come to hand combinations of cards right and I have to invent like trying to win the game anyway.

I've played with a similar deck on the last week of the previous season.

It's a bad matchup against Eithne. Your Witchers don't find good value and Spotters mostly just die. I've definitely lost more than I've won against her, especially till I learned how to play with the deck. But that's just that: a bad matchup but far from unwinnable. What I found working is not to play more than one Spotter at a time (so trading Bronze for Silver in case of a scorch), and keep my units disaligned with careful placement and Ales (and a good amount of praying that the Ale doesn't hit just that one combination of units that screws me up ). And not committing myself too much to Spotters: I've mulliganed away duplicates without remorse. Also I think I've more than once played Mandrake as a buff on opponent's unit.

To think about it, my win rate against the similarly Scorch-abusive Reveal was actually positive.
Also I don't consider myself a good player, someone probably would have had better results in both matchups.

Thing is other than the Scorches that deck doesn't have anything too strong. If in the last round the opponent can play Scorches in every turn and you don't even have the last say to outvalue him in the end, you've lost that match in the earlier rounds.

 

[Archpriest]

I have a feeling that almost all those wanting to play Solitaire aren't the hardcore Witcher/Gwent fans...

 

[BornBoring]

I think it's too easy at the moment to put enough removal in your deck to shut down most engine decks and it's one of the reasons why there happens so much on deploy(other reasons imo: loss of gold immunity and overall poor card design (too many pure value cards like bearmaster, not enough synergy, not enough engine cards, lack of cards, which reward you for a long-term strategy(like old warcry/warcrier)). In general I've got a big problem with effortless bronze removal cards like viper witcher or panther. More cards like impera enforcers would be nice.

That being said, I like scorch, because:

I consider Scorch as one of the skill cards, where it actually takes some effort and thinking both playing with and against.

 

[jgolden234]

I've been feeling the same lately. The point vomit of many small units in the end hurts other play styles. If I don't want to play the that way I have to keep up in tempo and that usually results in large cards. I can always count on scorch end of game. Another reason why card advantage is so important now. You have to go last if not expect scorch. I've been experimenting with done bigger plays such as 47 point ciri but ....anyway not much you can do here though. You can't change scorch. Last card is king

Yes, going last has become insanely important. Which means red coin is even more op. I know it has always been a problem, but the scorch a palooza going on makes it even more obvious imo.

 

[Zactime]

It's a bad matchup against Eithne. Your Witchers don't find good value and Spotters mostly just die. I've definitely lost more than I've won against her, especially till I learned how to play with the deck. But that's just that: a bad matchup but far from unwinnable. What I found working is not to play more than one Spotter at a time (so trading Bronze for Silver in case of a scorch), and keep my units disaligned with careful placement and Ales (and a good amount of praying that the Ale doesn't hit just that one combination of units that screws me up ). And not committing myself too much to Spotters: I've mulliganed away duplicates without remorse. Also I think I've more than once played Mandrake as a buff on opponent's unit.

Today I made 3 matches with the deck we were talking about: the first against monsters (win), the other two against Eithne. From some time, at least a deck out of three against whose game is with Eithne.
In the second game, in the third round, we played 6 cards each. The round ended 2 to 0. I avoided playing spotters. The opponent in three rounds played 3 scorch and 4 alzur. He (she) won playing a scorch on the only card I had in camp: a viper witcher.
I wasn't playing with a deck that defined by vomiting. But it's a defeat pretty sure with decks as that. It's just a game to the massacre.

It's really fun a game as this? Yes? For me no.

In Italy there is an advertisement of a betting site that says: "do you like to win easy? " (BTW sorry for my bad English)

Also I am able to build a deck like that and then what will happen? We'll scorch each other? Nice!

Developpers must balance the bouquets that fill the field of cards but must be balanced also these.

If it continues as this, I'll end soon to enjoy myself and not play more in Gwent.

 

[Thunderscape]

Which is basically a fancy tactic of forcing a point cap on decks. It is literally just changing the speed limit from 30mph to 48kph because the number is bigger.

"But there is no card count limit anymore either. You just have to use a certain amount of points until you run out of card spaces. You have 250 points and each card spends 10 points. No card limit though! Ha-ha-ha we unnecessarily revolutionized it again, look at all the identity we regained by doing so!"

From all the news the limit on points its a no problem for me, IF the cost of decks dont go trough the roof and this becames p2w...
Because right now with the limit on golds/silvers its a beginner friendly game...

Aside from that i think that could work quite well, with one more vector to balance cards around.
Right now its either 26 cards for nova, 25 standard or mill with a variable number.

I dont see it as a bad decision like removing one row, limiting bronzes to 2. Those imo are bad.

 

[Pruny]

Right now its either 26 cards for nova, 25 standard or mill with a variable number.

I mill with 25 :surprise:
Mill destroys eithne scorch...

 

[Thunderscape]

I mill with 25 :surprise:
Mill destroys eithne scorch...

NG soldiers too, i had a match recently it was so fun. He could only burn assire xD

Different match ups lead to different experiences. Some decks will stomp some decks, or in turn get stomped by others, or its a good matchup.

Scorch is not more OP than consume, it just happens to counter consume pretty bad.


And people get their feelings hurt because a very cruel person used a card thats very good against high value creatures. How dare they! What kind of monster would take advantage of a honest direct deck with cards that dont interact with you at all! They are peacefull decks for god sake! They just want to live, and a ruthless criminal burn them! The horror! The tragedy!

 

[partci]

There are way, WAY too much cards that do some sort of a damage. I don't think Bronzes should do more than 4 DMG on deploy/without any set up, this should be reserved for Silvers and Golds. You should count the control cards like the most precious thing you have in your deck, not something that is "Meh, I have 10 more, big deal if I waste this one".

 

[Selestes]

I totally agree with the comment above.
The number or removal reduces the game to any kind of point spam instead of the creative combos.

 

[time_drainer]

As long as there are Bronze engines that can generate value without setup, there should also be elimination with the same conditions.

 

[partci]

@time_drainer problem is that ENGINES generate slowly over time, while control just slams the points. Why are there no control engines? And I do not speak of Hazards, as it is completely different mechanic. More like a Vampire Unit that gets attached to a unit and drain it till it's death, slowly moving the points from one side of the board to the other. Why Axemen swing their axe but they themselves are not doing damage, but only buffing themselves? Why are there no such units? We had enforcers but they overnerfed the SO HARD that they are unplayable now. Etc. etc.

 

[time_drainer]

@time_drainer problem is that ENGINES generate slowly over time, while control just slams the points. Why are there no control engines? And I do not speak of Hazards, as it is completely different mechanic. More like a Vampire Unit that gets attached to a unit and drain it till it's death, slowly moving the points from one side of the board to the other. Why Axemen swing their axe but they themselves are not doing damage, but only buffing themselves? Why are there no such units? We had enforcers but they overnerfed the SO HARD that they are unplayable now. Etc. etc.

Yes the whole point of engines are, that they generate points over time. If they get shutdown early, you lose points, if they don't, they generate more points than you could get with any immediate point effect card (in the same tier). Remove the option to shut them down and they just become objectively better than other cards.
(Btw. Enforcers got nerfed exactly because they were slamming points immediately in addition to being an engine. I agree though that now they are too weak, while they were too strong before.)

Regarding "control engines": the point of engine control is that it shuts down an engine. If it can only "eventually, maybe" kill an engine, it's not control, it's just an engine itself.

That said if most of current engines would also get nerfed, as in they wouldn't generate too much points or get "out of range" too fast, I would be okay with less instant bronze elimination. Also if I can't kill an engine with a bronze card, it also shouldn't be able to get resurrected by one.

Just a couple engines that would be problematic by removing bronze elimination and leaving them as they are: Mangonels, Greatswords (in my opinion they already are) and pretty much anything that buffs itself by more than 1 points per turn (as you can't catch up with them before getting behind in points). On the other hand cards like Dragoons and Savage Bears would probably be okay.

Also Silver and Gold engines should probably also be out of range for lower tier elimination, but should provide a way to play around them even if they don't get removed immediately, e.g. you can damage one of opponent's cards against Butterfly, but you can't do too much against Odrin - other than kill all of his units, which is hardly achievable in most cases.

 

[partci]

Yes the whole point of engines are, that they generate points over time. If they get shutdown early, you lose points, if they don't, they generate more points than you could get with any immediate point effect card (in the same tier). Remove the option to shut them down and they just become objectively better than other cards...

Duh.

Problem is we have way too many of the immediate SLAM control and thus engines are becoming obsolete.

I will give you an example of a good engine card that there is one like in the entire game - the Arachas Behemoth and it is my believe that cards like the aforementioned Enforcers can use a familiar mechanic - not too much and not far less.

I guess if (when) the game goes two rows and two Bronze Copies per deck, purely mathematically, we will deal with less control cards and this will give engines a breathing space... maybe.

 

[time_drainer]

Problem is we have way too many of the immediate SLAM control and thus engines are becoming obsolete.

Thing is control still generates way less points than simple "point spam" (decks without engines and too much control, like dwarfs or veterans), so they lose to them. What we have right now is rock-paper-scissor. Control beats engine, engine beats point spam, point spam beats control. That's far from ideal, but kill control and engines will rule the meta with nothing to stop them.

I will give you an example of a good engine card that there is one like in the entire game - the Arachas Behemoth and it is my believe that cards like the aforementioned Enforcers can use a familiar mechanic - not too much and not far less.

You mean "if you don't kill me immediately, I'll SLAM 12 points on the table out of thin air and thin by 3" Behemoth? Sorry, but I don't agree. Maybe it would be okay though, if you lose the Drones.

 

[partci]

.... You mean "if you don't kill me immediately, I'll SLAM 12 points on the table out of thin air and thin by 3" Behemoth? Sorry, but I don't agree. Maybe it would be okay though, if you lose the Drones.

Arachas Behemots "slams" immediate up to 9 points with Arachas Queen only and than it has only one more charge left. I like the fact that that 8 points BRONZE card does have a cap of the points it can produce. And you do have time to minimize that.

 

[time_drainer]

Arachas Behemots "slams" immediate up to 9 points with Arachas Queen only and than it has only one more charge left. I like the fact that that 8 points BRONZE card does have a cap of the points it can produce. And you do have time to minimize that.

That doesn't account for Arachas Drones, which I pointed out explicitly as the problematic component. As I said, without them Behemoth might be fine, even if you can't eliminate it immediately.

As for limited uses, I agree that it could be good mechanic on some other engines as well. But I'd like to keep most engines to work indefinitely, so you could only stop by passing or yes eliminating them. We have to have cards that work better in long rounds.

 

[Witcher3point0]

The initial comment seems skewed. We all have access to the same card pool. Well as far as crafting is concerned anyways.
Meaning having cards with varying effects actually opens up the game more, whether it be removals or buffs.

It is our duty as the deck constructors to account for all of this and do our best to ensure we have a means to power up, defend against insanely menacing foes overtake them or match them. There is a card category literally called "Tactics" for this purpose.

I think if you find your running into the same problem often with a deck, it's time to evolve and modify or reconstruct. A deck isn't your child that you have to raise until you can't anymore, it's a tool used to get the job done. We use these tools until they're obsolete then we grab hold of new ones that can get us past the next obstacle.

I suggest if your not comfortable modifying the deck right away, maybe just add a couple cards and monitor the role the play. Has it benefited you? How so? Is X card more valuable then Y? What is the pattern. Which card is a dead draw more often then not etc.

Hopefully this is helpful. Cheers!

 

[Restlessdingo32]

Removals and standard control cards are a good thing. It is probably better when the removal side of the coin is limited and a single, low value control card can't break a lengthy, high value setup combo/engine, however. Of course, it's probably better when easy setup, high tempo is limited and combos/engines take more than two cards to execute as well. So, despite the Scorch hate I can understand some of the other arguments raised by this topic.

To clarify the above.... You can chain Scorch, similar effects or removals 6+ times in a row because you can bomb points at will far too easily and rapidly.