Thoughts of a book reader after finishing The Witcher 3

[Doc.Andimar]

Thoughts of a book reader after finishing The Witcher 3

Here is a collection of thoughts I've had while playing the game (obviously a lot of spoilers ahead):


1- Where the heck is Kelpie? Ciri without Kelpie... It's like beer without foam. It simply cannot exist.

2- I'm rather disappointed by the fact that we didn't even get to meet Ihuarraquax, or any herd of unicorns.

3- More on that, I actually kind of expected the developers would send us toTir ná Lia at the end of the game for a little while, and make it the last "secret" zone of the game, maybe the size of White Orchard.
Up until the very end, I thought Eredin would flee to Tir ná Lia and Geralt would follow him there, and meet the unicorns, the human slaves... I thought it'd be a brilliant thing... Oh well.

4- Avallach. It was a bit weird seeing him around Ciri and the group that much, considering what we know about him. How he conducted the genocide of the humans on Tir ná Lia. I expected him to betray us until the very end. And in spite of the twist, he simply doesn't. He helps Ciri and the dwellers of this world despite despising them all. That's still kind of weird to me.

5- It seems CDPR has had a hard time fitting the entire story of Ciri and Emhyr into the games. I was shocked almost from the very beginning to see how everyone easily accepted the fact that Emhyr considers Ciri his daughter, like a perfectly normal father, as if there was nothing else to it. Notwithstanding the fact that he wanted to marry her, f*ck her, and have incestuous children with her.
That part of the actual story is never mentioned in the games, like it doesn't exist.
Despite Ciri still thinking up until the very end of the book series that Emhyr is only one of his many suitors. Is the fact he pretty much tried to rape her now okay to Ciri, Geralt and Yen? He's just her "dad" now?

Now I know an adaptation is just that, an adaptation, and it's not always possible nor wise to try to fit every element of a book into a movie or a game. But it still bothered me a little bit.

6- ...Which brings me to my next point, which is heavily related to the one I just made. Emhyr's wife that looks just like Ciri and pretends to be her so he can legitimately rule Cintra doesn't seem to exist in the games. He is, as far as we're aware, single, here.

7- I didn't like how I could sometimes not make it completely obvious that Ciri is Geralt and Yen's daughter. Adoptive, yes, but their daughter nonetheless. I felt weird when we/they P) were introduced as just "friends" for instance.

8- It was mentioned in another thread already (about the wild Hunt), but I'm going to write it here as well: the nature of the wild Hunt doesn't seem to be the same in the games as in the books. I should re-read them because I'm not 100% certain anymore, but I remember the Wild Hunt were specters, incorporeal wraiths in this world. That they could not travel entirely through dimensions with their flesh and blood like Ciri can. And that's why they want her. In the W3, The Wild Hunt seem to be "wraiths" only so Geralt can use the corresponding oil on them.


CDPR, please don't take this the wrong way; I absolutely loved all the Witcher Games. I cried and laughed so many times during the Witcher 3 specifically, it's already become one of my favorite games ever. You did an overall amazing job on it imho, but I'm still a nitpicker.
I actually wish I could write another post about how much I loved your game, but I know my words would never be able to do justice to what I feel about it. So... Yeah.

 

[AdamSnow]

Never read the books, who or what is Kelpie?

 

[Doc.Andimar]

Kelpie is Ciri's black mare. She's had her throughout the books, and she's a freaking fast and devoted horse.

 

[AdamSnow]

One more thing if you don't mind, Geralt died according to the books and this is where the games pickup, so what are the books about after his death? or did he survive in the books too?

 

[Cuttlefish]

One more thing if you don't mind, Geralt died according to the books and this is where the games pickup, so what are the books about after his death? or did he survive in the books too?

Geralt retiring to the isle with Yennefer is from the books. Anything after that is invented by CD Projekt.

 

[AdamSnow]

Geralt retiring to the isle with Yennefer is from the books. Anything after that is invented by CD Projekt.

Wait so he didn't die in the books? the wild hunt didn't capture Yen?

 

[Cuttlefish]

Wait so he didn't die in the books? the wild hunt didn't capture Yen?

He died, but was brought back. Yen wasn't captured, no. The books end with Geralt and Yen at the Isle, and Ciri dimension travelling to King Arthur's court and meeting Galahad.

 

[Fjolsvid]

Wait so he didn't die in the books? the wild hunt didn't capture Yen?

At the end of the book series, Ciri leaves Geralt and Yen at the island (Avalon?). So no, Wild hunt capturing Yen was added by devs.

To OP: point 5 - when meeting Emhyr after the final battle, Ciri jumps at conclusion that that is what he wants as the emperor of Nilfgaard, when she first meets him. Then she learns that he is her father and Emhyr bids her final farewell and leaves. So yeah, she knows he is her father, but we don't know if she learns about his first plan to sire children with her was true. So if she doesn't know or get's over it, they could go that way. Geralt and Yen know that he is a bastard but had a change of heart, while Ciri learns that he is the emperor (with or without implications)

Point 6. Fake Ciri as Emhyr's wife could be plausibly absent unless we go straight to Darn Rowan or Nilfgaard, capital of Nilfgaard where she presumably is.
AFAIK we only meet Emhyr in Vizima in the game, unless i understood it wrong (Haven't played the game yet).

Point 7: This actually comes from the books - as Ciri herself frequently refers to Geralt and Yen as friends instead of step-parents. Though, Geralt not being able to explicitly point out that he is her "step-father/ mentor" is jarring indeed.

Point 8: In books, it is said that Avallach can travel to Tir na bea araine - so presumably he is limited to Witcher's world/plane (i at least got the impression that he is more limited than Eredin and his troops. This is a bit strange as he is a better mage, but afterall planar abilities aren't directly tied to skill with magic in witcherverse), while Wild hunt - Dearg Rundhri are limited to the Spiral - which from books (once again i got the impression, so it might be wrong) means a limited multitude of worlds/planes (as they were able to track and attack Ciri while she was escaping with the unicorn), it isn't explicitly said that Dearg Rundhri couldn't fully manifest as Avallach did in the books.
In artbook devs explain that they use this ghastly visage as part of psychological warfare .
Another idea i had while reading, is that Wild Hunt uses both modes - ghostly visage as a sort of protection and fully corporeal for other cases.
In Witcher 1, after killing the wraith of that red shirt witcher trainee (Leo or what was his name?) it was said that King of Wild Hunt could create/send tailored wraithes (so they can be sort of golems, but ghostly)
P.S. Aen Elle wanted Ciri to sire a child for them. That child that could open the great planar gates, presumably as unicorns did for them much earlier, so they could move/invade en masse. Unicorns in "Lady of the Lake" implied that Aen Elle would attack Witcher world/plane and massacre/enslave it.
My speculation - if those gates also allow moving in time, they could gather enough troops and invade earlier in time, change timelines

 

[Doc.Andimar]

To OP: point 5 - when meeting Emhyr after the final battle, Ciri jumps at conclusion that that is what he wants as the emperor of Nilfgaard, when she first meets him. Then she learns that he is her father and Emhyr bids her final farewell and leaves.

Weird. I remember thing very differently:
After the massacre on both sides at Stygga Castle, Emhyr comes with his troops, has a talk with Geralt and Yen where he tells them what needs to happen (they die and Ciri comes with him) and they make him promise never to make her sad/cry, and he grabs Ciri. But as he does that, Ciri just cannot handle being separated from her adoptive parents AGAIN and starts crying. That's when he forgets about his plans to have a child with her and tells her in the Elven language "Farewell girl/daughter". And here, I remember the narrator explaining that Ciri didn't understand the language very well and understood "girl" despite it being really "daughter".

Anyways, that doesn't change the fact that Ciri knew she'd have to become his husband. And therefore any posterior revelation that he also happens to be his father couldn't have possibly been handled well. ("Oh btw, I want to f*ck you, but I'm also your dad. Is that okay?")

Point 6. Fake Ciri as Emhyr's wife could be plausibly absent unless we go straight to Darn Rowan or Nilfgaard, capital of Nilfgaard where she presumably is.
AFAIK we only meet Emhyr in Vizima in the game, unless i understood it wrong (Haven't played the game yet).

Hm... Maybe you say that because you haven't played the game.
Everything in the game points to the idea that there's no fake Ciri.
Everyone knows about the real Ciri now. And everyone knows that Emhyr wants her to be her heiress.
Wouldn't that have huuuge political implications if Emhyr both had a wife who pretends to be Ciri, and a daughter he recognizes as Ciri, the lion cub of Cintra in public?
It wouldn't even make any sense.
Everyone would take him for a fool. Would wonder who that woman who pretends to be Ciri actually is. Everyone would eventually realize she's just a peasant girl...

Point 7: This actually comes from the books - as Ciri herself frequently refers to Geralt and Yen as friends instead of step-parents. Though, Geralt not being able to explicitly point out that he is her "step-father/ mentor" is jarring indeed.

You might be right. :/

it isn't explicitly said that Dearg Rundhri couldn't fully manifest as Avallach did in the books.

Damn I need to read the books again.

 

[Cuttlefish]

Everyone knows about the real Ciri now. And everyone knows that Emhyr wants her to be her heiress.

I don't think this is true - I vaguely recall someone mentioning in the game that there is a legend about Emhyr being Duny, but it's not confirmed.

But yeah, lack of fake Ciri and complete ignorance of Emhyr's previous desire to marry Ciri felt wrong to me as well. I mean, I acted suspicious and snappy at the emperor mostly because I thought he wanted Ciri as a bride.

Also, Ciri refers to Geralt as her father during one of the dialogues, I think with Bloody Baron's soldiers. And well, it'd be a weird if she called him father to his face, but I still considered their relationship to be pretty paternalistic.

 

[Doc.Andimar]

I don't think this is true - I vaguely recall someone mentioning in the game that there is a legend about Emhyr being Duny, but it's not confirmed.

... What? his courtisans talk to you about how they're glad Emhyr wants to involve his daughter more.
And when you bring her to him after you find her, he says in front of his whole court that she's his heiress, he'll give her the Empire, he even says her full name with all of her titles.
It can't get any more explicit than that.

That's the whole problem, and the reason why I said the game seems to depart from the books here.

 

[Cuttlefish]

... What? his courtisans talk to you about how they're glad Emhyr wants to involve his daughter more.
And when you bring her to him after you find her, he says in front of his whole court that she's his heiress, he'll give her the Empire, he even says her full name with all of her titles.
It can't get any more explicit than that.

That's the whole problem, and the reason why I said the game seems to depart from the books here.

Well, I am absoloutely positive about that Duny thing, that in general it's dismissed as a mere legend - but you're right in that saying it's still fishy. The conversation would be very awkward, I imagine; "hey guys, this is my daughter that I kept hidden all along... oh and, I'm married to a fake version of her! She is your new Empress!"

 

[Doc.Andimar]

Well, I am absoloutely positive about that Duny thing, that in general it's dismissed as a mere legend - but you're right in that saying it's still fishy. The conversation would be very awkward, I imagine; "hey guys, this is my daughter that I kept hidden all along... oh and, I'm married to a fake version of her! She is your new Empress!"

Exactly!

And we're not even talking about the children Emhyr has probably had with this fake Ciri...
Oh god, the mess.
lol

 

[vivaxardas2015]

Well, you can't make Emhyr a total bastard. Yes, he wanted to have a son with Ciri, but it was only when he did not meet her, in abstract. He did not have a chance to raise her, and even though purely intellectually he knew she was his daughter, his fatherly feeling were buried very deep. From magical and political perspective it was a good idea. That time, oh boy, everyone wanted to fuck Ciri, you know. "They will write a ballad about us! "The war for Cersei's... sorry, Ciri's cunt."
When he at last met her in person, he realized that he couldn't go through with it, all wunder-kids-world-conquerers be damned, even though nothing stood in his way. So he let all of them go. Actually, it was the moment when I started to admire him, even with all his flaws.
Now she returned, and in trouble, and he needs an heir to the throne, which is not such a bad job. I don't see any problem here.

 

[Innamoramento]

Well, as a huge fan of a books I will add my 2 coins to this tread.

1. A lack of mother-daughter relationships between Ciri and Yen.

Spoiler

She called her mommy many times in the books, but there they had some unsettling distance between them. I re-read the books now for the 3 or 4th time and I did not recall Ciri calling Geralt "dad" but Yen is her "mom" and they are very close.

2. What REDs did with a Lodge.

Spoiler

Especially with Sheala de Tancarville, as she is one of my favorite characters from books. Why in the games she is that big fat evil, when she was rather passive within the lodge, and served as a voice of reason for the big company of girls? Yes, they wanted power, but they had their reasons, the Lodge was not black-colored, there was so much shades of gray in their motives. And in the games they are just a bunch of evil witches. That's sad.

3. After Geralt and Yen was placed in Avallon,

Spoiler

Ciri escaped to the world of King Arthur, where Wild Hunt was not able to reach her. I spoke to Ciri many times, and not a word she mentioned about it.

4. Her relationships with Avallach.

Spoiler

He captured her, he wanted to use her as an iсubator for bearing their child, he lied, that she will be free, and many more. Yet they are together in her journey between worlds and she trusts him. And he helps her, despite his hatred to the human kind.

Well, I understand that games is just a fanfick for the Sapkowski books, which will always be canon for me, it's just a little bit sad that devs changed so much, I hoped this game will not be the second Game of Thrones (book vs series), but it seems to be so.

 

[Fjolsvid]

Weird. I remember thing very differently:
After the massacre on both sides at Stygga Castle, Emhyr comes with his troops, has a talk with Geralt and Yen where he tells them what needs to happen (they die and Ciri comes with him) and they make him promise never to make her sad/cry, and he grabs Ciri. But as he does that, Ciri just cannot handle being separated from her adoptive parents AGAIN and starts crying. That's when he forgets about his plans to have a child with her and tells her in the Elven language "Farewell girl/daughter". And here, I remember the narrator explaining that Ciri didn't understand the language very well and understood "girl" despite it being really "daughter".

Anyways, that doesn't change the fact that Ciri knew she'd have to become his husband. And therefore any posterior revelation that he also happens to be his father couldn't have possibly been handled well. ("Oh btw, I want to f*ck you, but I'm also your dad. Is that okay?")

It is slightly different in books (i have them on my table, russian ediion, btw): Emhyr has a talk with Geralt first and it is Geralt who says that they have to die. Emhyr offers him the "hot bath suicide" idea and they go to ask Yennifer if she agrees to suicide. Yen agrees and Ciri jumps to conclusion that they are going to die and starts shouting at Emhyr. During the argument Ciri jumps to conclusion that he wants to do the same thing as elves and promises to kill him if she is "touched". Emhyr calmly orders her to say goodbyes to Geralt and Yen. Geralt says she shouldn't kill Emhyr and Ciri says she won't and will run away. Also she says, she had enough of killing.
Emhyr escorts Geralt and Yen to the bathroom and when Yennifer asks not to hurt Ciri, Emhyr with a sad face says he thought he could do everyting, but now he knows that he can't and won't do what they think him to do (i.e rape his own daughter), says farewell and leaves.
When they meet Ciri after the bath, the narrator explains that she lied to them. When Nilfgaardians were leaving, Ciri started crying and Emhyr calmed her with a hug and said - "It is amazing thing - Destiny. Farewell, daughter". Then Yennifer asks - "What did he say?" - Ciri says(lies) - "va faill, luned" and explains that it means "farewell, girl". Yen says she knows. So basically Ciri has lied about the fact that she learned that Emhyr is her father.

In books, Emhyr discussed his plans to marry Cirilla Fiona Ellen Rhiannon - i.e The princess of Cintra and then marries the fake Ciri. Nilfgaardians didn't know that real Ciri he wanted to marry was his daughter too. Basically, only Emhyr himself and Vilhefortz, knew (And Avallach speculated that they knew the prophecy, but we don't know if he knew Cirti is Emhyr's daughter) that Emhyr wants to marry his own daughter. And Ciri herself didn't know for a fact that Emhyr wanted to marry her, she . The fact that she knows Emhyr is her father opens another can of worms - she understand that it was he, who caused all the suffering for her - waged war on her home, his trrops killed her grandmother and so on.
Honestly, these last few revelations in Stygga show a plothole the size of Nilfgaard left by Sapkowski. Vilhefortz planned to come to power before the first Nilfgaardian war, then he lead mages in battle on Sodden against Nilfgaard to get power among mages.
Also, why the hell Emhyr agreed to Vilhefortz plan to move to Nilfgaard secretly, instead of taking NIlfgaardian throne and openly as emperor make Ciri his heir. Ciri's "prophesized "child would be aumotaically born in Nilfgaard and he would achieve everything needed.

Where did you get that she doesn't understand Elder speech well? In books she is described speaking it really well on all occassions. Only at Tir na Lia, she is scolded by Aen Elle for bad elvish, because they speak a different dialect.

In books, Nilfgaard conquers most of the North and the events of books are mentoned as myths and tales of the northern provinces

Especially with Sheala de Tancarville, as she is one of my favorite characters from books. Why in the games she is that big fat evil, when she was rather passive within the lodge, and served as a voice of reason for the big company of girls? Yes, they wanted power, but they had their reasons, the Lodge was not black-colored, there was so much shades of gray in their motives. And in the games they are just a bunch of evil witches. That's sad.

Sheala was a a control freak and the almost mad scientist - check "Baptism by fire" when Franceska tells the story of Lara Dorren (end of chapter 6) and then "Lady of the lake" - last meeting of the Lodge - end of chapter 11.

He captured her, he wanted to use her as an iсubator for bearing their child, he lied, that she will be free, and many more. Yet they are together in her journey between worlds and she trusts him. And he helps her, despite his hatred to the human kind.

Er, yes and no - It was Eredin who said that Avallach lied and so on. Avallach acts as the nice one to Ciri. The fact that Avallach is in charge of eugenics program and supposedly wants that child is true. Do we get a reason why Wild hunt became active and why Avallach opposes them/helps Ciri? Also i've noticed that Ciri can destroy Avallach's lab, so not all is bright and shiny between them.

 

[Innamoramento]

Sheala was a a control freak

Yes, she was, I read the last chapter of "Lady of the lake today", and she did not tell nothing really horrible. Yes, she is a control freak with a mentors voice, but evil? No. I do not see it.

and the almost mad scientist

Did not see her madness. With a selection of Elder Blood worked also Franceska, Yennefer earlier Avallach and other elven mages. Which makes all of them equal in this matter.
And last - Nimue told Kondviramusa about two real portraits of a Lodge members which survived witch hunt and the burning of sorcerers portraits - Margarita's at Arteusae (i hope i spelled it right, i read the books in russian) and Sheala's at Lan Esketer, which is a winter palace of the kings of Kovir (Tissenides if I remember correctly). So I do not think that kings of Kovir was like "Oh, it is this evil king slayer bitch, she killed many and she played with our brains and did what she wants with us! But it's okay, let the portrait remain". It's illogical. This portrait of Sheala was treasured later, Philippa was proclaimed a saint, so even if they killed kings, queens, princes and ate babies for breakfast, no one knew it.

 

[Fjolsvid]

I meant that she is a heartless manipulator and a b*tch, somebody i defniitely define as evil. Not being worse than others isn't good, especially when your selection group is bastards and people worse than bastards.

Don't mix books and games - i'm pretty sure there was no assasination of kings-like event implied in future in books. Also Zuleika, wife of king Esterad Tiissen was very much in favour of Sheala, due to manipulations with royal son. Yeah, i remember about Nimue and Kondviramursa, though it's hard to understand - on one side it is described as basically a magocracy and elven exodus. On the other hand - Nilfgaard rules them all and no mention of other races and magic, which doesn't mix well. Another case of Sapkowsky messing with readers?

 

[Cuttlefish]

Do we get a reason why Wild hunt became active and why Avallach opposes them/helps Ciri?

The Wild Hunt becomes active to hunt down Ciri, though why they do what they did in game 1 instead of trying to capture Geralt is never quite explained (I don't suppose CD Projekt Red planned this far ahead back then, which sorta makes sense, since it was an entirely new, unknown title from a fresh video game company, uncertain to succeed). Avallach helps Ciri because apparently he doesn't want Eredin to have Ciri's power; I got the sense that there is more to it, though, particularly some obsession with Lara Dorren (Ciri apparently resembles her) and also it sorta looked like Avallach was feeding on Ciri's power at the Kaer Morhen fight... So, I don't think we've seen the last of Avallach.

 

[Fjolsvid]

uite explained (I don't suppose CD Projekt Red planned this far ahead back then, which sorta makes sense, since it was an entirely new, unknown title from a fresh video game company, uncertain to succeed). Avallach helps Ciri because apparently he doesn't want Eredin to have Ciri's power; I got the sense that there is more to it, though, particularly some obsession with Lara Dorren (Ciri apparently resembles her)

They could explain it as Ciri being in worlds where Eredin and his troops can't go. Now that Yen and Geralt are back from dead/paradise island, Ciri heard about them and came to investigate and so Dearg Rundhri picked up her trail and once again on the hunt.
In books Avallac'h was in love with Lara Dorren, but she was in love with a human mage and it all went wrong.

and also it sorta looked like Avallach was feeding on Ciri's power at the Kaer Morhen fight

Interesting. Guess there will be a story-related DLC / expansion pack.