Villentretenmerth cheese in NR deck

[bkarolczyk]

Villentretenmerth cheese in NR deck

How do other factions deal with this cheese?

Scenario: A NR player opens with VTM, a move I would assume makes a lot of ppl pass, unless they have and wanna put forth gold cards for 3 (2?) rounds. After the pass, the NR player uses the keadwen knight to make the card silver. First move 2 round is shani ressing VTM, which becomes gold again. VTM is then a 9 (?) gold card again.

I see this as a potential major problem for all other factions except for NR which has an amazing toolset with regard to modifing the color of a card (opponent's or own).

I won this game but - I think - only b/c I play NR gold/henslet deck.

Thoughts?

 

[SarahGabriella]

Thoughts? Buff the other cards the opponent has and watch them get burned. I did that and worked perfectly. Was so happy i won. Was very GG.

 

[Riven-Twain]

Iorveth might be some help for Scioa'tael, and possibly Harald the Cripple for Skellige; however, that does seem to be rather a tricky play. . . .

 

[bkarolczyk]

U cant buff the opponent's cards b/c there are none on the board or all are gold

 

[Laveley]

Hmm, what did i commented on the NR thread earlier this day(?):

The only thing obvious is using radovid, borkh, kadwin sergeant and shani. Two patches ago you would laugh at an 11 force strength dragon which could double scorch. Now things are much more nerfed to a point where you can win matches just by dropping that card first round, demoting it and reviving it with shani later.

Yeah... thats what happen when you keep nerfing more things than buffing all around; things that werent OP suddenly become... whats next? Nerf borkh? On two patches we may be seeing people asking for a geralt nerf.

 

[Archpriest]

Iorveth might be some help for Scioa'tael, and possibly Harald the Cripple for Skellige; however, that does seem to be rather a tricky play. . . .

Easy to counter - Promote/Henselt...

Hmm, what did i commented on the NR thread earlier this day(?):



Yeah... thats what happen when you keep nerfing more things than buffing all around; things that werent OP suddenly become... whats next? Nerf borkh? On two patches we may be seeing people asking for a geralt nerf.

I agree. Just tested it in three rounds - very bad. I mean, I won without thinking a lot. If at all.
And as I wrote in other thread, I think the biggest problem for every deck, apart from Skellige, it its heavy reliance on some single card/s...

The only good thing about it is the devs might look into it... hopefully finding other solution than nerfing. And no, extending the timer to 4-5 isn't a good solution.

 

[Necro_Man_Ser]

Anyone can play borkh, the speciality of that case is that he's played twice and that you can't just pass the second time. There are many ways though to deal with him
-) play spies
-) play anything that does not put units on the board but provides other advantages, like card draw/discard
-) play low value units or units that are supposed to go to the graveyard anyway like tuirseach skirmisher

If opponent's tactic is using borkh like this, he will have no space in the deck for sick comboing and buffs. The worst that can happen is 3 redanian elites, which is still pretty bad, but manageable.
Point is, being prepared for it and playing smart should make you able to deal with this cheese.

 

[Rawls]

Gold (Iorveth or Triss if available) + weather or special card + spy. The last wish is a great option.

 

[Archpriest]

Gold (Iorveth or Triss if available) + weather or special card + spy. The last wish is a great option.

We're specifically talking about play/demote/resurrect/promote/rinse and repeat exploit...

 

[Rawls]

We're specifically talking about play/demote/resurrect/promote/rinse and repeat exploit...

I'm aware. That's the strongest play against it. If it is brought back as a silver weather + lacerate + repeat. But I play scoia'tael control ... which make's it easier to deal with.

 

[Laveley]

If opponent's tactic is using borkh like this, he will have no space in the deck for sick comboing and buffs.

That is already a combo you know... Radovid control gravitates around putting some good gold numbers on the board while denying you any board presence. For that borkh is perfect... he was already almost auto-include on that build before the patch, with nerfs on ciri and igni he just became more powerful.

 

[Archpriest]

I'm aware. That's the strongest play against it. If it is brought back as a silver weather + lacerate + repeat. But I play scoia'tael control ... which make's it easier to deal with.

You usually won't be able to do that because of revive-weather-promote... or even more simple - Shani.
He's brought back as a silver 9 health card. Even if you Scorch him because for some unknown reason he's the highest card in the board... revive again.

 

[StrykerxS77x]

Everyone needs to relax on Borkh and on NR. In regards to Bork he isn't unbeatable by any stretch. There's always a way to play around him or counter him so that you can still win, more importantly the devs are adding in that new Dimeritium chains card which will give you a way to kill Bork.

As for NR that faction was gutted with this patch so leave it alone. It's been through enough.

 

[muetdhivers]

I play that a lot.
i did play against Laveley today (he was playing SCO deck)
i think it will be dead against Dshackle, but for now it's good against some deck.
against monster, with fog, if you rez your dragon you got a 3 STR gold unit that die very fast, usually it's better to rez it with normal medic, as he will be only STR 1 i wont kill himselft.

As to how to play against :

Monster : stole it or rez it.
SKE : use it to kill your Skirmisher and rez them even more powerfull, play spy.
SCO : copy the promote card when the NR player use it, it work pretty well.

or : ignore it. dont pass against it, play weather card / other card that make you draw (spy again, is one of the best choice) usually with this kind of deck you really cant win if the fight is long, against SKE it's not really good.

Demote Geralt and play it without Shani is even better, you can play it each round. he doesnt need to be gold, just to cast igni and die.

 

[Zefyris]

I think villentretenmerth 's use by NR is kind of fine. it's an interesting play. Sure enough it's strong, but it's kind of going to be auto-nerfed next patch with the apparition of shackles. Right now Nr vs Nr running borth play around with demoting him for having him kills himself, for example. Even without the shackle, the play around that happens like sending spies on the enemy side, buffing ennemies, wounding his own units just a bit, both side trying to get as little damage as possible from it is interesting. Obviously that's a moment heavily in NR favour with the promote, sergeants, and the fact that their deck is built to play around it anyway. Still, it's a three turn long cooldown so it's not insta punishment like some other stuff around.
It's definitely very strong, and not every deck can deal with it, definitely. But that's going to be the case for most of the meta stuff at every patch anyway.

 

[Peetz]

Had this exact NR meta played twice on me tonight. Geralt, then Borkh - I pass. Then he demotes Borkh and passes. Brings Borkh back with shani on his first play second round. And he's still got his Redanian Knight/Reinforcement. NR has too much Gold to counter this Borkh-Fest.

I think this is the new NR cheese.

 

[ThreePi]

Huh, this is pretty clever. I wish I had the Scrap to get this. This tactic wouldn't have really been any different pre-patch, wonder why we hadn't really seen it before?

 

[Laveley]

Huh, this is pretty clever. I wish I had the Scrap to get this. This tactic wouldn't have really been any different pre-patch, wonder why we hadn't really seen it before?

Simply because wasnt as good pre-patch.

 

[Greenmyst]

Simply because wasnt as good pre-patch.

It was as good before patch, there were just other strats that were just as good as well. when they got nerfed, this strat came to prominence. you don't seem to understand how average power level works because you're always complaining about nerfs. it does not matter if things are buffed or nerfed, what matters is that everything is buffed or nerfed together and in relation to each other. borkh was was just as good before this patch, it is simply the fact that it was left untouched when its competitor strategies were nerfed.

and as far as "NR is trash now", you realize they still have medic chains right? you just have to put a reaver scout between the medics to avoid the "medics cant rez each other" clause and you still get OG patch unit summoning magic.

 

[Laveley]

It was as good before patch, there were just other strats that were just as good as well. when they got nerfed, this strat came to prominence. you don't seem to understand how average power level works because you're always complaining about nerfs. it does not matter if things are buffed or nerfed, what matters is that everything is buffed or nerfed together and in relation to each other. borkh was was just as good before this patch, it is simply the fact that it was left untouched when its competitor strategies were nerfed.

Hmm... first you say that it was as good before the patch. Than you say there were better strats that got nerfed so this strat got to proeminence.... so if it came to proeminence now because the others were nerfed how is as good as before? Youself are saying that what matter is the relative power; if everything else is nerfed and borkh is left untouched, than borkh is essentially relatively better now, even though he didnt changed at all, because of relative powers. So how can you say he is "as good as before" since yourself is admitting he is relatively better now?

And yes, people already used borkh on radovid control before, but because the way promote worked back then it was a hard counter to that strat, so it wasnt that good; another example of relative powe, you eliminate a counter to a given strat, that strat becomes more powerful.

and as far as "NR is trash now", you realize they still have medic chains right? you just have to put a reaver scout between the medics to avoid the "medics cant rez each other" clause and you still get OG patch unit summoning magic.

I dont know if that was directed towards me, but if it was it doesnt have nothing to do with what is being discussed here and i never said "NR is trash now".